Eastern European Politics

So... today is the day. The 30th anniversary of the declaration of the Republic of Hungary, and the 63rd anniversary of the 1956 revolution.

Public speeches were had by most of the opposition (extreme right party Jobbik called Fidesz "communists" for example...) and of course by Fidesz too, but no open-air program with Orbán.

Yeah, well... it's getting to the point that they'll start calling Josef II out as a dirty communist, and all.

Y'mean the king with the hat? xd (No jokes, that's how he's remembered here: he refused to be crowned as king of Hungary, at least for a good while, because that way he could drag the Hungarian nobility ahead without them being able to dig their soles into the soil for a few decades... until he took almost all his laws back on his deathbed at least.)

Edited by akanesarumara on Oct 23rd 2019 at 6:05:57 PM

Don't forget to mention the three-hour Q&A session the Speaker of the House had somewhere. Some of the things he said:

• The populace of Budapest made a mistake in voting Fidesz out. Now the best case scenario is the opposition fucking it all up the way they did before Fidesz' time because the elections were rigged in the opposition's favor due to Facebook banning Fidesz' political ads as misleading and manipulative propaganda. Note that he conveniently didn't mention that the countryside newspapers who are all under Fidesz control in turn didn't let the opposition place their own political advertisements.
• Constitutional tribunals and handicapping an elected government's executive powers are a post-Weimar invention of the elite who realized that the common folk cannot be trusted to not elect incompetent nobodies without a way to forcibly maintain the status quo. Obstructing the reach of a democratically elected government at every turn is not only un-democratic, but also idiotic.
• The very concept of national sovereignty is under attack, not just in Hungary but all over the world, by conspirators like Zuckerberg who enshrine individual freedom above all else and see nationality as nothing but an optional membership to take advantage of, then dump as per the market demands.
• Fidesz made the right call to block sanctions against Turkey because although what's happening to the Kurds in Syria is unfortunate, it's simply not in our national interest to give Turkey any reason to unleash the three million refugees in our direction instead of Syria's.
• It's alright that Fidesz don't do politics as if they were young because they're not young and the world is full of adults incapable of growing up. Mass media is deliberately and purposely infantilizing people with idiotic shit like anthropomorphic bacteria in food ads. Above the age of 40, paranoia and suspicion are required for survival. He also dislikes liberal adults who identify themselves as liberals by current definition instead of the WW1-era definition.
• Social media and smartphones given to children are ticking weapons of mass destruction due to destroying the upcoming generations' sense of culture and community. Calling social media 'social' is a filthy lie that will create a world compared to which the 1960s were paradise because at least communism instilled into people a sense of community whereas the current age is characterized by a straight-up diseased push of 'individuality above all else'.
• Fidesz didn't change anything in the past 30 years but didn't do any notable screw-ups either, aside from failing to prosecute even particularly bloody-handed Communist butchers.

All in all, he comes across to me as a grumpy grandpa incapable of accepting that society and the world isn't going to remain static.

You know, I'm pretty sure it wasn't actually Josef who took everything back, but his brother or somebody else either twisting his arm as he got weaker or just outright forging everything to save family face.

The guy was as stubborn as the dickens. And, was adamant in trying to drag everybody into the C18th kicking and screaming. They certainly did enough of both... And, he maybe got them very reluctantly as far as the mid-C16th? Or early-C17th? (The latter is being generous.)

Great-grandpa. A lot of that sounds like it's got feet in the C19th.

Edited by Euodiachloris on Oct 23rd 2019 at 1:14:57 PM

Holy smokes, it may be better I'm reading your redacted version instead of listening to him ramble... Our speaker really is... ugh. I have no words.

Maybe, could have been xd All I know is that mama dearest (Maria Theresia, one of the Habsburgs we actually have respect for... the women seem to have had it easier in this regard :P) did NOT like Josef's ideas.

Well technically, the Aristocracy here was stuck ever since the 1500s when our king said "Aight nobles can't sell or buy land (so the big ones don't buy up the small ones), can't use it as collateral for credits even if that credit would be used to improve upon the property/estate, and unless the crown grants it, can only get it either as inheritance or as dowry. If the male line is gone, the crown gets it." Which... sounds about as backwards as you may think, but it did not stop generations of nobles from gambling and drinking away whole estates.

Erdogan visited Budapest yesterday. Downtown Buda was practically crippled from tens of thousands protesting. Even public transportation had problems - by which I mean total chaos, with police randomly closing off key traffic points, corralling in hundreds and not letting civilians who had nothing to do with the protests leave the metro stations.

As always, political opinions are divided among govt/opposition lines. Karácsony, who hanged the Kurdish flag from his office window a few days after he was elected as mayor, declared that no diplomatic boon justifies a country's Prime Minister in buddying up with war criminals. He also declared that he won't tolerate the police closing off streets without advance warning and having permission from him. Momentum president Fekete-Győr, upon being called a Romanian agent by Fidesz' no.1 propagandist, replied "Could you guys pull yourselves out of Erdogan's ass for just a bit, please?"

Orbán's response was pulling out the M-word and declaring that Erdogan's downfall is only a foolish dream by pro-migration people.

Burn.

Fidesz is on the move again, having submitted a legislative proposal concerning the rights of MPs.

• MPs are no longer allowed to inspect govt-owned facilities with only their MP ID card without prior arrangement. No more surprise inspections by opposition members, despite a court ruling to the contrary.
• Independent MPs are no longer allowed to enter fractions.
• MPs are no longer allowed to join a fraction other than their own party's in order to give the fraction the minimum required numbers to form.
• MPs can no longer amend the wording of their oath of office, nor can they append anything to the document.
• The maximum duration for which misbehaving MPs can be banned from attending Parliament is extended from 9 days to 60. Banned MPs can vote either via an intermediary (if the voting is public) or at a location specified by the Speaker (if the voting is secret).
• MPs who refused to attend Parliament have already had their pay docked, but now the Speaker has the authority to reject their reason of absence and overrule the head of fraction in the matter.

The opposition is unanimous in their opinion that Fidesz is irritated by their unity and is trying to shut them up. An independent MP had gone on record stating that the government telling the opposition what the latter are and aren't allowed to do is within the definition of a dictatorship.

Well, it's not wrong to point out that a politically motivated dictate from the party in power to everybody else is... well... kinda dictatorial.

Another dirty move by Fidesz. The Media Commission they created in 2010 to control what is and isn't allowed in the media has its members appointed by Parliament for nine years, which just expired. So Fidesz filled it up with their own guys to maintain exclusive control for another nine years, not letting the opposition or even KDNP get even a single seat. Opposition is outraged at the blatant trampling of freedom of press by a Fidesz scared of losing power after the recent elections.

And yet Fidesz is complaining that the opposition has more power in the media than Fidesz does...

After several months of internal strife due to their failing popular support, as evidenced by the lukewarm results of the October elections, Fidesz are desperately trying to find new propaganda material (and a recent article says they spent 100 billion on propaganda in the past eight years). With migration no longer being enough to keep the public anxious, Orbán is instead going outright racist and elitist, attacking prison inmates and gypsies for daring to ask for financial compensation from the state for the negative discrimination they suffer in life.

Says it's "unjust" to the hard-working citizens to just hand out free money to these people without them working for it. The fact that he's doing this shit in the middle of disciplinary proceedings against Fidesz at the EPP means Fidesz pretty much consider their expulsion from the EPP a done deal, so they're doubling down since they have nothing more to lose.

And the funny part in that is that Orbán himself is of gypsy descent...

It looks like Fidesz is not getting expelled from the EPP after all, due to lack of majority behind the decision.

Not good news. Heard today a declaration by Orbán in state radio that he considers the refugee crisis to be a greater historical challenge than the ongoing coronavirus epidemic (there are no reported cases in Hungary yet, but several neighboring countries did get hit already).

I thought this was just the usual rhetoric - until I found out about Turkey's unilateral decision this morning to let go of their refugees due to casualties sustained in Syria.

Well, fuck. Another refugee crisis would make it even harder for Fidesz to be removed from power.

For those not keeping track, Hungary has declared a state of emergency earlier this week due to the coronavirus epidemic, which grants mayors executive powers to make and sign decisions without the consent of the city council.

Fidesz-aligned mayors in whose city councils are opposition-majority are already moving to seize the opportunity.

• In Komló, the mayor unilaterally decided on the yearly budget and zeroed out the city council's salary.
• In Szekszárd, the mayor once again unilaterally decided on the yearly budget. He also restored the mayoral cabinet to support him with background work and returned the municipal newspaper under the city's ownership.

Again, in both of these cities, the mayor is Fidesz while the city council is opposition-majority.

Govt is asking for indefinite authorization to rule by decree without having to get Parliament's assent on anything.

Opposition is rightfully cautious about the matter after the govt having prolonged a similar state of emergency for years on the apropos of the migration crisis, but govt wants a Parliament vote on it next week.

Opposition is unanimously refusing to greenlight the above thing in Parliament. They agree that emergency powers to allow the govt to react quickly to further developments in the pandemic situation is sensible, but they're absolutely refusing to make it indefinite and unlimited. Multiple parties are pointing out that if the EP managed to make tele-voting work, Hungary should be able to implement it too.

A number of lawyers, judges and other such people, both current and former, are also making a petition against the proposal, pointing out that "indefinite unlimited power to the government which suspends all elections and which only the government can cancel" would basically reduce Hungary into a kingdom.

It isn't already?

Opposition voted nay to whether to vote on the enhanced emergency powers this week. It would've required 80% to pass, so the issue is only going to be voted on next week, at which time it's expected to pass due to only requiring two-thirds, which Fidesz has.

So it's a no-win either way it seems?

It actually depends on whether any Fidesz MPs catch COVID-19 before the next vote, as they cannot vote in person while sitting in quarantine and televoting requires a constitutional amendment. If Fidesz doesn't have enough MPs not in quarantine to have two-thirds, the motion won't pass.

Or if those who are supposed to be in quarantine actually stay home... there was one guy in Fidesz who was in contact with one of the confirmed cases so had to selfquarantine but then came out of the quarantine because he felt it was his duty -.-

Whelp. The law passed.

Coronavirus: Hungary government gets sweeping powers

Was there thunderous applause?

Edited by Ramidel on Mar 30th 2020 at 8:18:29 AM

Unfortunately, I don't know tbh xd Levity appreciated though.