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HallowHawk Since: Feb, 2013
#276: Jan 14th 2015 at 8:57:04 PM

Given its location, can we count Slovenia in here?

edited 14th Jan '15 8:57:12 PM by HallowHawk

BestOf FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC! from Finland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
#277: Jan 15th 2015 at 12:30:26 AM

I think so, yeah.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#278: Jan 15th 2015 at 9:32:10 AM

Something going on in Slovenia?

Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#279: Jan 15th 2015 at 9:38:25 AM

I hear 'tis a silly place. tongue

edited 15th Jan '15 9:39:49 AM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei
amitakartok Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
#280: Jan 19th 2015 at 4:01:07 PM

Fidesz' faction leader says Hungary will be able to introduce the euro in 2020 but advises against it, saying that it will do the country more harm than good. Rogán bases this on how other countries ended up after switching, primarily Slovenia and Slovakia.

By the way, Hungary now has a US ambassador once again. The previous one's (Eleni Tsakopoulos Kounalakis) mandate expired back in 2013 and only now did the US send a replacement in the form of Colleen Bradley Bell, with her having been chosen due to her role in raising funds for Obama's election campaign. Reaction from the Hungarian government is optimistic and hopeful for now.

And Vona, the head of Jobbik, expressed his opinion of the Charlie Hebdo incident. Specifically, he condemns the attack but refuses to pick a side. In his words,

Since they wish to sell that trash in Hungary too next week, I believe it's important for me to make it clear: I am not Charlie.

I will not identify with those who portray a crucified Jesus sunbathing on a beach; that's not part of the freedom of expression. Same with the caricature about the deceased nun's oral sex in heaven and the other obscenities.

Some want to make Europe choose between being Charlie or being a terrorist. Well, this is a false question for me. Of these, I don't want to choose either side because both is the side of hatred. True, the sin of the perpetrators is worse, no question there, but that doesn't mean everyone should identify with the other side.

The killers are armed terrorists, the editors are terrorists of words. Hatred drives both sides and both fosters hatred.

edited 19th Jan '15 4:10:13 PM by amitakartok

amitakartok Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
#281: Jan 29th 2015 at 7:07:33 AM

Merkel is coming to Hungary early next week. The protesters wrote her a letter, telling her just what exactly is Orbán doing. One of their points is that Merkel is wrong in thinking that Orbán is who keeps the country away from the far-right, especially in light of him heavily criticizing the EU's immigration policy immediately after the Charlie Hebdo massacre. Another emphasis is on him sucking up to Putin, the man who kicked up the post-WW 2 peace in Europe. The letter closes with

Creating the new Hungarian democracy is the role of the Hungarian democrats. Preserving the EU's moral and political integrity is Yours and the rest of Europe's democratic leaders'.

Speaking of immigration policy, the relevant high-ranking officials are trying to speed up immigrant deportation proceedings.

Meanwhile, it looks like Orbán bluffed during his election campaign six years ago. Some areas of the country are not very accessible for an ambulance (at least one village is more than 45 minutes away from the nearest ambulance base), so he promised 22 new bases for ambulances; of these, only one (!) was completed. Another promise was the modernization of 60 bases; 13 were actually done. Back in 2009, Hungary won EU subsidy for getting this stuff done but it will expire this November, forfeiting the money that wasn't already used up.

Speaking of which, Orbán gave out an executive order prioritizing the complete milking of as much EU subsidies as possible. To that end, the government is hiring hundreds of people for writing tenders; project leaders who fail to produce results would have to pay the lost EU subsidy to the government. The man himself is going on a cross-country trip to evaluate potential fields of development.

edited 29th Jan '15 7:16:48 AM by amitakartok

NotSoBadassLongcoat The Showrunner of Dzwiedz 24 from People's Democratic Republic of Badassia (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Puppy love
The Showrunner of Dzwiedz 24
#282: Feb 4th 2015 at 4:19:07 PM

[up] That reminds me of the Soviet-era lunacy, Potemkin villages, painting the grass green for the Gensek visits, and, above all, cooking the books so everything looks in order on paper.

Also, the miners are on strike again, nobody has the slightest idea why (sure, the state-supported mining company fucked up and generated enough losses to give a good part of those spoiled moochers the boot) - do they oppose the reorganization plan, or do they support it but want something changed, or are they thinking that their job as trade union representatives is to make pointless racket and get on everyone's nerves.

Additionally, the second subway line in Warsaw, scheduled for opening "sometime in January" is still closed, and the bookies are taking bets as to when will it open. Insanity.

"what the complete, unabridged, 4k ultra HD fuck with bonus features" - Mark Von Lewis
tricksterson Never Trust from Behind you with an icepick Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Never Trust
#283: Feb 4th 2015 at 4:21:44 PM

When I started the thread I specifically mentioned the states of former Yugoslavia so yes, Slovenia counts.

Trump delenda est
amitakartok Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
#285: Feb 6th 2015 at 2:56:20 PM

Looks like Orbán just lost one of his key supporters. There was a mass resignation of key personnel in his media empire today, for "conscience reasons"; the head of said media empire (Lajos Simicska) is pissed as fuck, saying that Orbán is behind it. He calls the resigners "backstabbing traitors" and intends to purge his ranks of Orbán supporters, replacing them with people who "can't be intimidated".

This is especially notable since Simicska used to be one of Orbán's key backers for nearly three decades now. Not anymore, it seems.

Quag15 Since: Mar, 2012
#286: Feb 6th 2015 at 3:05:30 PM

[up]May his downfall continue.

Btw, how nasty is the Simicska guy in regards to the other parties in terms of media treatment?

amitakartok Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
#287: Feb 6th 2015 at 4:31:17 PM

Actually, it was Orbán who always defended Simicska from criticism, the two of them having used to be college roomies. Back then, Orbán openly hero-worshipped Simicska as a second father of sorts.

Simicska made party treasurer in 1993, having tasked with building Fidesz an economic base so that the party can self-finance without external investors being able to leverage the party through their support. After getting elected for the first time, Orbán made him head of the customs office but Simicska quit and retired from public life after massive attacks in the media about how he and his business partners sucked several companies dry, accumulating massive debt or selling them to strawmen. One of his attackers was the minister of finance; Orbán fired the guy for it. Afterwards, Simicska stayed in the background, quietly managing Fidesz' economic base.

In 2012 when the opposition party LMP was heavily attacking the government, they accused Simicska of being an oligarch; Orbán defended him, saying that Hungary has no oligarchs but the country needs domestic billionaires, else foreign investors will suck the place dry. Last year, Orbán's two greatest supporters tried to convince him into pushing Simicska's influence back; Orbán still defended Simicska, saying that the party has a lot to thank him for. Simicska said in an interview that in April, shortly after the elections, the two of them sat down to discuss Orbán's plans for the future; he didn't go into the details, only that he didn't like it. The two haven't talked since then, due to Simicska deliberately not answering Orbán's calls.

Allegedly, what Orbán wanted was something he talked about way back in 1994: searching out the 8-10 most powerful big businesses in the country and building personal ties with them, ties these businesses could use to get a head start in the market competition. Inside Fidesz, the prevailing opinion is that Orbán is moving against Simicska due to the latter having complete and total control over the party's economic background.

On Thursday, Simicska announced that he's preparing for a "total media war" due to Orbán's advertisement tax hitting him the hardest after the government's primary enemy in the media (RTL) was recently forced to back down and agree to a compromise. To that end, he called his media people together on Friday and said that from then on, Orbán is to be targeted with personal attacks in a complete 180° of what they were doing so far. The chief editor of his newspaper, Gábor Liszkay, then told him that he wishes to resign, Simicska said OK... then he saw the announcement that the whole management just stood up "and I was like, what the dick is going on here". Simicska then gave the order to buy up Liszkay's shares, which his executives did; the exact price wasn't revealed but it's somewhere in the high eight/low nine digits. Simicska himself has no idea how big is his ownership of the company that bought Liszkay's shares but "it's mine. The empire is extensive, I have many interests."

Interviews quote him thus (all expletives faithfully and literally included and translated):

I said okay, you can resign but you have to sell. You'll get some cash, then fuck you. He had no objections. I appointed the new executive and chief editor and that's that. It's goodbye for traitors; I'll fucking get rid of whoever I still have to and rely only on my own men from now on.

My alliance with Orbán started from wanting to dismantle the dictatorship and the postcommunist system. Turns out, that's not an easy thing, you have to work on it. But this alliance didn't fucking have anything about building another dictatorship. I'm not going to be complicit in this.

Orbán is cum. I might redact this tomorrow after I calm down but for now, feel free to write it down that he's cum.

He already has replacement chief editors named and appointed and is taking personal command of his TV station to begin the counteroffensive; although he confirmed that he's not taking up politics, he also assures that "I'm not going to let myself get pushed down".

This isn't just a mere setback. Simicska is the guy in control of Fidesz' entire financial rearguard and he just turned on Orbán. This is FUCKING HUGE.

edited 6th Feb '15 8:17:32 PM by amitakartok

NotSoBadassLongcoat The Showrunner of Dzwiedz 24 from People's Democratic Republic of Badassia (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Puppy love
The Showrunner of Dzwiedz 24
#288: Feb 8th 2015 at 3:39:03 PM

[up] Yay, someone put a hacksaw to that right-wing bastard's shins. Funny how media moguls are the kingmakers these days.

Also, boring stuff over here. Our transgender MP wants to run in the presidential election. Looking at the competition, she may even have a chance. The incumbent dumbass still has enough support despite doing nothing, but I doubt that'll hold. The rightard is posturing very hard to cover the obvious fact that he's merely a puppet. Palikot the Shifty is shifty. The socialist candidate is a bible-thumping papist, so that's a no. And the agrarian party pushes some peroxide clown nobody even heard about.

Also, by some miracle, the Convention Against Domestic Violence was finally ratified, and those fuckwads in black dresses are fuming and flailing ineffectively, along with their bible-thumping rightard flock. The sooner we get rid of ideological dictatorship of the Church, the better.

"what the complete, unabridged, 4k ultra HD fuck with bonus features" - Mark Von Lewis
amitakartok Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
#289: Feb 9th 2015 at 4:21:38 AM

In a piece of non-Fidesz-related news, interim elections were held in several places a while ago. The Mezőtúr election in particular was held because during the October elections, there was a perfect tie between the candidates of Fidesz and Jobbik. The tiebreaker resulted in Jobbik's candidate winning with 55%, at a 25% turnout - despite having some... interesting activity on Facebook, like commenting on an article about a mass brawl by gypsies with "Just kill those gypsy motherfuckers already!" or posting a picture of a handgun with "aid dispenser" photoshopped onto the barrel in stereotypical gypsy accent.

In response to those statements, Vona (Jobbik's president) ordered the guy to move in with one of the party's gypsy-descent members for three days - a gypsy who also happens to be the local president of Jobbik in his town. [lol] Vona says it's important to make it clear for everyone that "Jobbik is fighting not against gypsies but against dishonest people, be they gypsies or Hungarians" and that "I trust he too will understand this alongside such an honest gypsy comrade and will accordingly perform the duties the denizens of Mezőtúr entrusted him with".

His victory doesn't do much in the long run, as Fidesz still dominates the election district - but it's worth noting that only Fidesz and Jobbik bothered to run interim candidates in that particular village, with the socialist candidate not running due to health reasons and the other parties not even bothering. Between a rock and a hard place, much?

Oh, and on Ózd, there was another amusing event. During the October elections, Jobbik's candidate barely snatched victory away from the Fidesz candidate; Fidesz cried foul and invalidated the election results... only for the interim election to result in the Jobbik candidate's landslide victory with a supermajority. Critical Failure at Summon Bigger Fish, much?

edited 9th Feb '15 7:11:21 AM by amitakartok

Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#290: Feb 9th 2015 at 9:13:44 AM

The question is whether Jobbik will be any different from Fidesz if they take the reins. Also, whether they'll be able to take the reins at all, or whether the socialists will be strong enough to make it impossible for any government to form.

amitakartok Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
#291: Feb 9th 2015 at 7:04:05 PM

As things stand now, Jobbik has a very good shot at getting elected.

The socialists, formerly Fidesz' greatest opponent since the nineties, haven't been able to contest squat since the massive loss in prestige they suffered after their last elected PM was kicked out of office due to a highly publicized Engineered Public Confession. A few years back, the party even suffered a schism when said PM and his supporters quit and formed their own party, the Democratic Coalition. During the last elections, the leftist parties including MSZP and DK came together into a coalition for the express purpose of not letting Fidesz get reelected but even together they failed to get enough votes to make it past Jobbik.

Meanwhile, Orbán came out and said he doesn't care what Simicska says, nor is he going to argue with the guy.

edited 9th Feb '15 7:19:51 PM by amitakartok

SabresEdge Show an affirming flame from a defense-in-depth Since: Oct, 2010
Show an affirming flame
#292: Feb 9th 2015 at 7:40:35 PM

Hmm. Just from the sound of things here, is Jobbik tacking more to the center as it becomes a more serious opposition party?

Charlie Stross's cheerful, optimistic predictions for 2017, part one of three.
amitakartok Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
#293: Feb 10th 2015 at 6:11:33 AM

To quote The Other Wiki:

Jobbik rejects the common classification of the political spectrum in left and right. It prefers a distinction of political parties based on their stance towards globalisation. On this scheme, the party sees itself as patriotic. The party also rejects the term 'far-right', and instead labels itself as 'radical right-wing'. It has also criticized media companies for labeling them as 'far-right' and has threatened to take action towards those who do. In 2014, the Supreme Court of Hungary ruled that Jobbik cannot be labeled "far-right" in any domestic radio or television transmissions, as this would constitute an opinion because Jobbik has refuted the 'far-right' label.

And 'patriotic' isn't just an empty buzzword they strapped on; Vona outright stated his opinion that Hungarians are slaves, since the EU only accepted Hungary as a member state due to the cheap workforce. And cheap it is: a few years ago, some high-ranking Fidesz guy stated that he believes the average Hungarian family should be able to live off the equivalent of 171 USD a month (a bit over half of the current minimum wage). Uh, excuse me? My mother makes nearly triple of that and barely cuts even with all the bills - and this isn't anywhere near the upper class. With the middle class being like this, is it any wonder they're attracted to Jobbik?

Though I'm currently discussing things with by college roommate and he says Jobbik is currently consolidating and indeed moving a bit to the center. Specifically, he says Hungary's disillusionment in the left is moving the entire spectrum, with the currently centrist Fidesz becoming the new left and Jobbik the centrist.

Who would be the new right in this arrangement, you ask? That would be Magyar Hajnal (literally "Hungarian Dawn"), an extreme far-right group composed of former Jobbik members who broke ties due to opposing Jobbik's consolidation (and indeed, I remember an interview with Vona from a few years ago where he said Jobbik kicked out some ultraradicals from their ranks due to differences in agenda). They couldn't officially qualify for becoming a proper political party but their presence might help to shield Jobbik from the worst of the worst by sucking those asses away into their own ranks.

edited 10th Feb '15 6:47:01 AM by amitakartok

amitakartok Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
#294: Feb 11th 2015 at 4:47:55 AM

New poll reveals Fidesz currently has 21% support in the voting population. Jobbik is currently standing at 16% and catching up fast, with 1.3 million supporters (the most they ever had so far) and counting. The difference between the two is only 400,000 voters now.

The number of those who don't want to vote has stopped growing, currently at 40% / 3.2 million. Among those who know for sure who they would vote for:

  • Fidesz: 40%
  • Jobbik: 25%
  • MSZP (socialists): 19%
  • DK: 6%
  • LMP: 5%

Since October, Fidesz lost 1.1 million voters.

amitakartok Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
#295: Feb 16th 2015 at 12:13:40 PM

Crowd of 3000 gathered in Budapest today, after 6 PM. This time the occasion is Putin's visit tomorrow, as well as Orbán's pru-Russian policies. The title of the protest: "Putin: Nyet! - Europe: Yes!"

Chants include "Eu-ro-pe", "Uk-rai-ne", "Orbán out", "Damn Fidesz" and "Ruskies home", with background music supplied by AC/DC, Kraftwerk and Beatles.

Speakers say stuff about Putin doing the same destabilization policy in Ukraine as they did in Chechnya (crowd chants "Ukraine" in response), "Orbán is Putin's best student, having learned election fraud from him" "Putin tortures and kills, he even killed Litvinyenko and Orbán buddies up to him", "the Peace March only says 'we won't be a colony' on their banner but doesn't actually care", "the eastern wind only blows atom", "Viktor, aren't you ashamed of yourself? That this became of you after the Nagy Imre speech? If you shake hands with Putin tomorrow, you will be among those who buried Nagy Imre face-down" (crowd chants "traitor").

At 8:30 PM, the crowd sung the national anthem and the Ode to Joy, then peacefully dissolved.

edited 16th Feb '15 12:15:05 PM by amitakartok

Quag15 Since: Mar, 2012
#296: Feb 16th 2015 at 12:16:35 PM

[up][awesome]

background music supplied by AC/DC, Kraftwerk and Beatles.

Very good taste.[tup]

SabresEdge Show an affirming flame from a defense-in-depth Since: Oct, 2010
Show an affirming flame
#297: Feb 16th 2015 at 1:20:18 PM

Orban does show up in Timothy Garton Ash's account of the 1989 revolutions; if I remember, Garton Ash's impression was that of an ambitious up-and-comer nationalist. For Hungary, the revolution came with Imre Nagy's much-belated funeral.

It's amazing to see that come up again, a quarter century later.

Charlie Stross's cheerful, optimistic predictions for 2017, part one of three.
NotSoBadassLongcoat The Showrunner of Dzwiedz 24 from People's Democratic Republic of Badassia (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Puppy love
The Showrunner of Dzwiedz 24
#298: Feb 16th 2015 at 2:54:08 PM

[up][up][up] Oooh, even better.

As for that bit where some Fidesz fuckwad said that an average Hungarian family could live off 150 bucks a month... We have idiots spouting similar excuses over here, claiming that we should be grateful we earn so little or otherwise "our economy wouldn't be competitive"! All that while the members of parliament net over two thousand bucks a month for doing jack shit and their buddies from the trade unions milk their workplaces for at least $1000 a month, some of them getting as much as $4000. While I get what, $700 at most? People have to survive on the minimum wage that is around $400 these days? Some of them are pulling double shifts at shitty jobs that pay a dollar per hour. Yes, you heard that right, people are willing to work their asses off for bubkes because there's simply no alternative whatsoever for that.

Also, our dumbass of a president refuses to have a debate with pretty much anyone. This just has to bite him in the ass sooner or later, I'm sure. The question, however, still stands: sooner, and recoverably so, OR later?

"what the complete, unabridged, 4k ultra HD fuck with bonus features" - Mark Von Lewis
amitakartok Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
amitakartok Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
#300: Feb 17th 2015 at 1:18:27 PM

Putin is in Hungary, having arrived in the midst of a helluva lot of security measures. Heard something about him having arrived in a formation of three planes, of which only one had an active transponder and circled in the air for hours. Even the highway near the airport was closed down when his plane drew nearby.

One of his several stops in Budapest was the Soviet memorial for 1956, the only one which still calls it a counter-revolution (Russia didn't let us change it).

After having arrived to the Parliament significantly behind schedule, he signed a bunch of national cooperation agreements then held some speeches alongside Orbán, inviting him to Moscow. One of the primary topics was securing a stable supply of natural gas, with Orbán saying that we haven't used up the twenty-year quota we bought in 1995; the relevant agreement states we still get the rest AND we won't have to pay in advance, only when we use it. Another topic was about the recent expansion of the Paks NPP - Orbán saying it's only a delusion that Europe can become energetically independent from Russia while also staying economically competitive -, as well as what Putin intends to do about the South Stream (which would benefit Hungary too).

After the busted schedule, Putin arrived to the presidential palace two hours behind schedule and despite Áder having waited for him that much, they only shared a quick handshake for the cameras before Putin bugged off to the airport.


The DK is already whining that Orbán just betrayed the country by signing a document that "practically turned Hungary into a colony" by plunging us into debt that will take decades to pay off, something he tried to hide until Putin admitted it. They also condemn Orbán for linking his years-long program of dropping the costs of living with "the illusion of safe Russian gas". "When he talked about Eurasian unity, he actually turned against the EU's politics [...] embarking to represent in Brussels something the entirety of EU refuses; Hungary is already a pariah in the European community".

They also pointed out Orbán gave permission for Putin to pay his respects at the grave of the Russian soldiers who died fighting against the 1956 revolution - which is actually a good point, considering how Orbán's own political career started with the 1989 mass protest (which makes the current ones look like nothing) where he openly condemned the regime's demonization of the 1956 revolution in such a way that pretty much everyone listening thought "holy shit, this guy just signed his own death warrant"!

Another opposition party's stated opinion is that there was absolutely no reason to call Putin here, other than letting him "parade" in an EU member state.

Jobbik immediately shot back that they keep whining about this without being able to present a viable alternative to Russian gas, "and now they're going back to their homes heated with Russian gas and keep whipping the Putin-led Russia from there". Their opinion is that it's a good thing Russia trusts us but they called Orbán a cynic liar for mentioning the EU sanctions against Russia negatively "when Fidesz silently supported the sanctions; it should be time for the PM to clearly let the government's official opinion known [...] we can't make economic and trade relations or talk about an eastern opening while Hungary gets into the line that hermetically seals Russia from the world". They also call him out on his statement about Ukraine: it's fine that he wants peace but he said nothing about what he's actually going to do about it, having did nothing so far to stop ethnic Hungarians in the border region from being conscripted and not having announced any steps he intends to take if the situation escalates further.

Brussels already let us know that Orbán should've involved them in the discussion, considering that he signed something that might be in violation of EU competition laws.

edited 17th Feb '15 1:51:55 PM by amitakartok


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