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Self-Demonstrating Character Pages cleanup

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Important note:

  • This thread is for discussing individual self-demonstrating character pages. However, it was determined that consensus regarding whether such pages are or aren't necessary or beneficial to the wiki needs to be determined before discussing individual pages, as stated in this mod statement, so this thread has been locked in the meantime. Please join the policy discussion in this thread on the Wiki Talk forum.

    Original post 
So apparently the self-demonstrating page I created for Charizard was deleted. I could somehow sense that the character articles were getting out of hand, but since nobody really had a problem with it I just decided to run with it.

However, this deletion hints that rules should be in place for self-demonstrating character pages, so does anyone have suggestions for what the rules should be?

I have a few:

  • Deadpool has one, no questions asked (even if everyone else's are deleted). Especially Charizard's.
  • The character must be able to speak English (or other intelligible languages), except for Rule of Funny (like with Groot's page). Charizard violated this rule. Kyoko's page is fine since she'd be speaking Japanese, for example, which is simply "translated" for reader convenience (largely based on the official subtitles).
  • There can be a forum thread where people can post their drafts and suggestions for character pages, similar to the Fanon Pokédex. In this case, new character pages can't be started without being reviewed in the thread. This is to avoid having the wiki oversaturated with pages for characters with boring personalities (like Shu Ouma) or ones with strange speech patterns that aren't for Rule of Funny purposes like Charizard. I can just imagine the chaos that would have ensued if other tropers had decided to follow my lead and create Pokémon Speak pages for about 30 other species of Pokémon.

Any thoughts?

Edited by GastonRabbit on Nov 4th 2024 at 11:22:35 AM

Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#1451: Jan 25th 2025 at 1:30:07 AM

Well that's not what "First-person troping" refers to on this site. If it's "the only gimmick is talking in first person" then it doesn't work as a page.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Wafer Troy Verde from the Banjo-Tooie world, meditating (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: Non-Canon
Troy Verde
#1452: Jan 25th 2025 at 10:58:12 AM

[up] Yeah, I was trying to say "not a distinct enough voice" but I couldn't quite articulate it. Sorry about that.

Some more thoughts on a few more pages:

  • The Phantom Thieves: SD pages for large groups of characters does seem like an interesting concept, but aside from that I don't think any of the Phantom Thieves have any distinct voices except for Futaba.
  • Robbie Rotten: Seems fine enough. Just remove the Siivagunner references (because fanworks aren't allowed to be referenced in SD articles) and we'll be golden.
  • Eua: Sounds kind of generic? But I'm not familiar with Higurashi so idk
  • Satoru Gojo has him offhandedly mention the TVTCCW in the stinger, I feel like that should be removed
  • Hajime Nagumo: I only know about this page because one of his interactions had him crushing Terumi's balls or something but otherwise this page seems a bit generic
  • Okay I just wanted to talk about this but I didn't feel like making a whole new post again. Sephiroth feels like it barely has a unique voice, and the way it's written gives me "desperately trying to fill an essay's word count" vibes.

Edited by Wafer on Jan 27th 2025 at 7:09:55 AM

Guys how cool would it be if Super Megaforce had a green ranger...
fateslay56 Since: May, 2023
#1453: Jan 26th 2025 at 11:28:35 AM

Kinda lame to remove Classic megs and Optimus Prime over this voice thing.

Hello world
BetterSlimebot from Check outside (The New Guy) Relationship Status: Desperate
#1454: Jan 26th 2025 at 11:33:08 AM

I'm also not a big fan of removing pages, but characters not having a good enough voice is the reason the main self demonstrating page is locked in the first place. I wish there was a way we could modify them to keep them up, but we couldn't figure anything out, and I'd rather those pages get deleted than all the pages being at risk again.

fateslay56 Since: May, 2023
#1455: Jan 26th 2025 at 11:35:15 AM

I mean just mix up the stuff on voices it is not that hard to decide. Like what is the point of Seld Demonstrating if you can't have fun?

Edited by fateslay56 on Jan 26th 2025 at 11:36:27 AM

Hello world
Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#1456: Jan 26th 2025 at 11:41:38 AM

Fun is subjective. Self-Demonstrating Character Pages were first made with a specific vision, so changing that would either require vast approval and potentially mods support, or making a new Just For Fun page entirely.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
2HeadedMoonOctopus Dr. Jr. from Berlint, Ostania (Unitroper) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Dr. Jr.
#1457: Jan 26th 2025 at 3:18:49 PM

Simple solution to the Gojo thing, just remove the link but keep the reference to fanfics (plural) because there are other fanfics where Gojo fights Makima

Check out The TV Tropes Character Crossover War! Moving to a new home soon
AwkbutTVT Nyan-Binary (The picture, not me) from Gaia, in no current need of help Since: Sep, 2023
Nyan-Binary (The picture, not me)
#1458: Jan 26th 2025 at 3:58:17 PM

^^^^^ Is that not kinda the whole point of the SDs?

Edited by AwkbutTVT on Jan 26th 2025 at 11:58:32 AM

Ey, migi vuru?
ReginaldOgron5 Est Ut Squimplex Ut from Two blocks down from the Undead Burg Since: Mar, 2022 Relationship Status: I want you to want me
Est Ut Squimplex Ut
#1459: Jan 26th 2025 at 4:19:27 PM

[up] No. The point of SD pages is not just for characters to describe themselves in the first person, it's for characters to uniquely describe themselves. If a hypothetical character was a Third-Person Person and that showed up in their SD dialogue, that would make for a good SD page idea. If a character would describe themselves in a way that doesn't translate beyond "a completely normal person talking", THAT is what Amonimus is talking about, because there's functionally nothing different between that and a trope page that is in the first person for no reason.

Edited by ReginaldOgron5 on Jan 26th 2025 at 4:21:34 AM

Wenn sie die Ente hierein lassen, lasse ich das Wasser hieraus!
troper101 (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: love is a deadly lazer
#1460: Jan 26th 2025 at 10:21:00 PM

Cut the Phantom Thieves, Eua, Gojo, Hajime Nagumo, and Sephiroth. None of them seem to have voices beyond "I did these things". Robbie Rotten looks okay.

AwkbutTVT Nyan-Binary (The picture, not me) from Gaia, in no current need of help Since: Sep, 2023
Nyan-Binary (The picture, not me)
#1461: Jan 26th 2025 at 11:49:13 PM

^^ Yeah that's what I meant

Ey, migi vuru?
Galaxithea Since: Apr, 2016
#1462: Jan 27th 2025 at 1:52:46 AM

I don’t think the Phantom Thieves page should be cut. I think the dynamics that the group has amongst itself as they discuss their tropes are what gives the page its own unique voice.

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#1463: Jan 27th 2025 at 8:17:07 AM

[up][up][up] Phantom Thieves could definitely work. I agree that individually, none of them (Futaba included) would qualify for a page, but collectively and with their collective dynamic as a voice, they can work.

That said, the page as it is is just cringe-y.

All the rest mentioned are easy cuts.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Galaxithea Since: Apr, 2016
#1464: Jan 27th 2025 at 2:02:35 PM

[up]I would appreciate it if you could explain what about that page could be done better instead of calling it "cringe-y".

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#1465: Jan 27th 2025 at 2:18:43 PM

Looking at the edit history, you picked up on at least the first huge red flag with the whole "smirkingly talking about being the better Joker" that you cut. I think it's safe to say that it's going to be very rare for anything on this site to have "(*smirks*)" and not read like bad fanfiction.

Speaking of which. Characters singing full song lyrics? Fox just reciting a whole scene from American Psycho? Yaoi-bait in the Combination Attack entry? None of this has to do with the characters but they're just decades-tired fanfiction tropes.

Like, certain characters really do have serious chemistry. It's kind of the basis for the SHOWTIME attacks. Those can be built off of. Instead, most of the entries are just characters taking turns saying how the trope applies to the group. We don't even get flanderized versions of the characters (I am admittedly shocked most entries don't have Ryuji going "For real?"). There's a few that work. Code Name, for example, actually ties into Ryuji's and Morgana's dynamic. But most of them are just characters reading out vaguely how the trope applies to the group as a whole.

Which also leads to problems with context, technically.

Like, take this:

Makoto: Even petty school bullies can easily become much, much worse if no one nips their distorted desires in the bud, so we target them as well. Luckily, they typically aren't far gone enough to have a Palace, so we just need to talk with their Shadows in Mementos to convince them to change.
Morgana: Even if we gotta tussle first!

I can work out its relation to the trope Bully Hunter but it's weirdly... imprecise. Also, I switched the character names to demonstrate how they weren't individually tied to their voices or dynamics.

Edited by Larkmarn on Jan 27th 2025 at 5:27:35 AM

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
2HeadedMoonOctopus Dr. Jr. from Berlint, Ostania (Unitroper) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Dr. Jr.
#1466: Jan 31st 2025 at 6:29:18 AM

[up][up][up][up][up][up] I feel like Sephiroth and Gojo can be easily salvaged, and there hasn't been much discussion as to WHY they don't/can't have a unique voice.

Check out The TV Tropes Character Crossover War! Moving to a new home soon
chris4449 (Troper Journeyman)
#1467: Jan 31st 2025 at 8:03:32 AM

I agree. We can’t simply go deleting pages without discussing options to see if we can fix them first.

BetterSlimebot from Check outside (The New Guy) Relationship Status: Desperate
#1468: Jan 31st 2025 at 9:53:32 AM

I don't remember if I got to red much of the pages before they were deleted, but I agree that there was concerningly little discussion before they were cut.

chris4449 (Troper Journeyman)
#1469: Jan 31st 2025 at 11:50:29 AM

There wasn't any discussion to a significant degree. Just one "They need to go" and that was the end of it

AwkbutTVT Nyan-Binary (The picture, not me) from Gaia, in no current need of help Since: Sep, 2023
Nyan-Binary (The picture, not me)
#1470: Jan 31st 2025 at 11:53:22 AM

They're still there, haven't been cut

Ey, migi vuru?
chris4449 (Troper Journeyman)
#1471: Jan 31st 2025 at 1:09:49 PM

Yes, but a request was put in to cut them.

Wafer Troy Verde from the Banjo-Tooie world, meditating (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: Non-Canon
Troy Verde
#1472: Jan 31st 2025 at 2:25:10 PM

In my experience, particularly bad/low-effort pages (Panty Anarchy, Neku Sakuraba, and Gogo Tomago off the top of my head) get nixed without hesitation. For more contentious pages though, like Sephiroth and the Resident Evil guys who had pages (to name a past example), that's when discussion needs to be had. Agreed on how we shouldn't have a singular person decide which pages get to stay or not, though.

Guys how cool would it be if Super Megaforce had a green ranger...
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#1473: Feb 4th 2025 at 1:45:22 PM

So, Gojo's cut was (rightfully) declined due to a lack of discussion.

That said, I do think it should be cut, the character has a hell of a personality but other than parroting memetic lines I can't see the page having a unique voice other than "casual and confident." One user keeps calling it salvageable but their only recommendation is to reference other fanfics about a completely unrelated character.

Edited by Larkmarn on Feb 4th 2025 at 4:45:39 AM

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
AwkbutTVT Nyan-Binary (The picture, not me) from Gaia, in no current need of help Since: Sep, 2023
Nyan-Binary (The picture, not me)
#1474: Feb 4th 2025 at 1:50:04 PM

It's unfortunate but I'm leaning agree

Ey, migi vuru?
troper101 (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: love is a deadly lazer
#1475: Feb 12th 2025 at 9:02:55 PM

So, it's been over a week. Is anyone going to go through the effort of "salvaging" those pages? Because that was the reason given for why their cut was declined (while the others were cut without issue), but they haven't been edited at all since then. If no one's touching them, I think they should just be deleted.


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