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Self-Demonstrating Character Pages cleanup

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Important note:

  • This thread is for discussing individual self-demonstrating character pages. However, it was determined that consensus regarding whether such pages are or aren't necessary or beneficial to the wiki needs to be determined before discussing individual pages, as stated in this mod statement, so this thread has been locked in the meantime. Please join the policy discussion in this thread on the Wiki Talk forum.

    Original post 
So apparently the self-demonstrating page I created for Charizard was deleted. I could somehow sense that the character articles were getting out of hand, but since nobody really had a problem with it I just decided to run with it.

However, this deletion hints that rules should be in place for self-demonstrating character pages, so does anyone have suggestions for what the rules should be?

I have a few:

  • Deadpool has one, no questions asked (even if everyone else's are deleted). Especially Charizard's.
  • The character must be able to speak English (or other intelligible languages), except for Rule of Funny (like with Groot's page). Charizard violated this rule. Kyoko's page is fine since she'd be speaking Japanese, for example, which is simply "translated" for reader convenience (largely based on the official subtitles).
  • There can be a forum thread where people can post their drafts and suggestions for character pages, similar to the Fanon Pokédex. In this case, new character pages can't be started without being reviewed in the thread. This is to avoid having the wiki oversaturated with pages for characters with boring personalities (like Shu Ouma) or ones with strange speech patterns that aren't for Rule of Funny purposes like Charizard. I can just imagine the chaos that would have ensued if other tropers had decided to follow my lead and create Pokémon Speak pages for about 30 other species of Pokémon.

Any thoughts?

Edited by GastonRabbit on Nov 4th 2024 at 11:22:35 AM

BetterSlimebot from Check outside (The New Guy) Relationship Status: Desperate
#1426: Jan 24th 2025 at 6:57:03 AM

[up][up][up] I'd agree. It's pretty outdated now.

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#1427: Jan 24th 2025 at 7:02:17 AM

It's interesting, but it reads like fanfiction. It doesn't capture her voice, or really attempt to. It basically tries to create its own voice to capture her personality which, while interesting, is just fanfiction.

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HalfFaust Since: Jan, 2019
#1428: Jan 24th 2025 at 7:26:43 AM

While awkward, possibly worth noting that something being well-written / interesting to read doesn't necessarily mean it fits well here; we have to work to specific criteria.

IkeaHan Franchouchou Sponsor from Kamurocho, Tokyo Since: May, 2021 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Franchouchou Sponsor
#1429: Jan 24th 2025 at 7:27:34 AM

How about shifting away from "what is this character's personality" to "how does the character communicate canonically".

Edited by IkeaHan on Jan 24th 2025 at 7:28:03 AM

Character Specific Page cleanup
BetterSlimebot from Check outside (The New Guy) Relationship Status: Desperate
#1430: Jan 24th 2025 at 7:30:01 AM

Alright, but that gets a bit odd because now our abilities are limited to only the characters this group of people knows well.

Edited by BetterSlimebot on Jan 24th 2025 at 3:34:23 PM

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#1431: Jan 24th 2025 at 7:54:08 AM

Not really, we can have a character who's relatively unknown if their voice is clearly distinct enough to be communicated. Ideally, that's exactly who we want SD pages for. If someone is unable to communicate how their voice is unique, or just says "they have a personality" then that tells us they probably don't have a distinct voice.

We shouldn't be struggling to give a clear voice to an interesting character without one, we should be making pages for characters with interesting voices.

In this case, I've found a lot of self-demonstrating pages undercut by familiarity with their works. Makima is an example, but if you're actually, say, familiar with Captain Falcon and not just the character as a meme, then that page is gibberish. Hell, even playing up the memes, it's the only place on the internet that decided his Verbal Tic is saying "falcone."

This is just a continuation of the conversation earlier this month. War Jay put it well. "The key isn't to give the characters a voice. They should already have one."

Edited by Larkmarn on Jan 24th 2025 at 11:06:11 AM

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#1432: Jan 24th 2025 at 8:23:16 AM

Tbh making pages for characters one doesn't know well is even more odd. That's the point of the cleanup.

IIRC Makima's dog talk being brought up months ago is how it was first discovered many pages force gimmicks in.

Edited by Amonimus on Jan 24th 2025 at 7:30:09 PM

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
2HeadedMoonOctopus Dr. Jr. from Berlint, Ostania (Unitroper) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Dr. Jr.
#1433: Jan 24th 2025 at 8:42:57 AM

I'm actually extremely familiar with Makima's character and wrote her page from that angle, trying to get into her perspective and everything. As for Denji, the point is that he's a Sir Swears-a-Lot street punk and that the page was written with Ryan Colt Levy's extremely charismatic and unique performance in mind.

If we're talking pages that should be cut, Captain Falcon (entirely fanon) and Kyoko Sakura (similar to the Death Note pages) should be on the chopping block.

What would be an ideal final count for SDCP's after pruning and such?

Edited by 2HeadedMoonOctopus on Jan 24th 2025 at 11:47:35 AM

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Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#1434: Jan 24th 2025 at 8:48:00 AM

You're still looking at this from the wrong direction.

There's no final count we're looking for. There's nothing wrong with having hundreds, thousands, millions of SD pages.

They just need to come into existence because the character is a good fit for an SD page. Not because we like the character and want to make them into a good fit for an SD page.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
2HeadedMoonOctopus Dr. Jr. from Berlint, Ostania (Unitroper) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Dr. Jr.
#1435: Jan 24th 2025 at 8:50:00 AM

[up]We should have a voting system for "keep", "improve" or "cut" in that case.

Check out The TV Tropes Character Crossover War! Moving to a new home soon
AwkbutTVT Nyan-Binary (The picture, not me) from Gaia, in no current need of help Since: Sep, 2023
Nyan-Binary (The picture, not me)
#1436: Jan 24th 2025 at 8:59:49 AM

I'm not sure I understand GLaDOS' reference to an Advertisement Server, and it links to a user, should that link go?

Edited by AwkbutTVT on Jan 24th 2025 at 5:01:17 PM

Ey, migi vuru?
2HeadedMoonOctopus Dr. Jr. from Berlint, Ostania (Unitroper) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Dr. Jr.
#1437: Jan 24th 2025 at 9:05:10 AM

[up]It's not a user, it's a joke page for the wiki's own ad server.

Check out The TV Tropes Character Crossover War! Moving to a new home soon
chris4449 (Troper Journeyman)
#1438: Jan 24th 2025 at 9:09:12 AM

I agree there has to be some sort of voting system in place — something to determine how the pages will stay or go, or need to be reworked

Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#1439: Jan 24th 2025 at 9:10:23 AM

The Advertisement Server is not a real user (I don't know what it is), it's Eddie giving Ad Servers some personification as a joke (which is is forever accurate)

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
AwkbutTVT Nyan-Binary (The picture, not me) from Gaia, in no current need of help Since: Sep, 2023
Nyan-Binary (The picture, not me)
#1440: Jan 24th 2025 at 9:12:24 AM

I see, I suppose that does seem clear enough upon reading, her page should be fine then

Ey, migi vuru?
BetterSlimebot from Check outside (The New Guy) Relationship Status: Desperate
#1441: Jan 24th 2025 at 10:28:53 AM

Should anything be done with The Genie and his page? It is filled to the brim with pop-culture references. The occasional reference has already been decided to be fine, but there's so many of them here that I wanted to bring it up before proceeding.

It's been a while since I've seen Aladdin, but aside from a lot of the references being to things that didn't exist when his movie was out, it all seems in-character. From what I saw, there are no character interactions aside from a couple folders that can easily be removed.

IkeaHan Franchouchou Sponsor from Kamurocho, Tokyo Since: May, 2021 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Franchouchou Sponsor
#1442: Jan 24th 2025 at 10:36:49 AM

I do have some issues with the amount of them present making for a kinda inelegant read, since if they're not brief enough you spend too much time on them rather than Genie's dialogue.

There should also be more of an effort to format them differently from regular text so you can tell which is which.

Character Specific Page cleanup
BetterSlimebot from Check outside (The New Guy) Relationship Status: Desperate
#1443: Jan 24th 2025 at 5:08:52 PM

I feel like a lot of the spongebob pages should have some changes. They all have their own very distinct voices and personalities in the show, but they don't come out a lot in the pages. In fact, there's a lot of things on the pages that are just direct quotes from the series.

Edited by BetterSlimebot on Jan 24th 2025 at 1:10:15 PM

Wafer Troy Verde from the Banjo-Tooie world, meditating (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: Non-Canon
Troy Verde
#1444: Jan 24th 2025 at 10:05:30 PM

Since we're doing this let me share my opinions on some pages:

  • Happy Chaos: First-person troping (also personal pet peeve, I don't like the tildes. Elphelt's page has them too but it at least fits her, but it doesn't for HC)
  • Angela And Roland: First-person troping
  • Elphelt Valentine: Halfway there...? It does fit her character, sure, but at the risk of sounding like "this character has personality traits" I also think this is like, half first-person troping. I dunno.
  • Red (Angry Birds): First-person troping. Even if accounting for the Angry Birds gibberish you still can't even have that because SD pages require them to be coherent.
  • Yuuki Terumi: This page is so weird, with all the self-plagiarism/redundancies and broken English. The way his speech patterns are written here are kinda off too. (The stinger also had a link to Encyclopedia Dramatica before I replaced it, god bless the 2010s) I know he talks really annoyingly in canon but a good chunk of this page just... tries too hard? It reads like those memes making fun of the amount of swearing in Hazbin Hotel or something. That's a pretty weird comparison to make given that also describes canon Terumi, but that's the vibe this page specifically gives me. I was planning on giving this page a revamp (which I do still intend to do) and giving Hazama and Susanoo their own sections, but I don't think they have unique voices aside from "casual" and "formal and divine" respectively (and, in Hazama's case, whenever he does talk uniquely it's still Terumi's voice because he's his vessel), which is convenient because I have no idea how to write them both. I also don't like how Terumi addresses Susanoo (his true self) in this one, though I can't really articulate why. (Another personal pet peeve but I don't like it when characters explicitly namedrop specific installments of their source material.)

Edited by Wafer on Jan 24th 2025 at 10:13:55 AM

Guys how cool would it be if Super Megaforce had a green ranger...
pizzastropes180 Charlie Disco from your wallet (Season 2) Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Charlie Disco
#1445: Jan 24th 2025 at 10:23:59 PM

i'll try to defend angela and rolands case since i DID wanna play into the latters Servile Snarker tendency

and AGAIN i feel like getting rid of the character shoutouts, while aight STILL sorta removed some of the pages uniquity

red should'nt have a page at all though its like michael myers all over again

"And for one night only...you can get your revenge." / NEW
Wafer Troy Verde from the Banjo-Tooie world, meditating (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: Non-Canon
Troy Verde
#1446: Jan 24th 2025 at 10:45:47 PM

and AGAIN i feel like getting rid of the character shoutouts, while aight STILL sorta removed some of the pages uniquity

This is the exact thought I had with Elphelt's page. I was like 90% sure it was made solely so she could gush over SD page guys, but after it was announced that character interactions had to go, what does she have to offer?

A character's voice being defined by how they interact with others is a unique idea, but if character interactions are the sole reason for making a SD page that probably isn't good.

Guys how cool would it be if Super Megaforce had a green ranger...
pizzastropes180 Charlie Disco from your wallet (Season 2) Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Charlie Disco
#1447: Jan 24th 2025 at 10:47:50 PM

that might actually be the reason for some of the sandbox's quality

we were, a bit too hyperfocused on the interactions than the actual tropes even the ideas mentioned it i STILL say elphelt can keep it, she's still a crazy lovebug with or without shoutouts, just needs some retooling

"And for one night only...you can get your revenge." / NEW
Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#1448: Jan 25th 2025 at 12:18:47 AM

re 1444, what does "first -person troping" mean in this context? For SDCP it is very different from First-Person Writing and is what are they are supposed to be doing.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
IkeaHan Franchouchou Sponsor from Kamurocho, Tokyo Since: May, 2021 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Franchouchou Sponsor
#1449: Jan 25th 2025 at 12:20:56 AM

I believe they're describing how a lot of character pages are just very plain, first-person descriptions rather than something more interesting or charismatic. (I.e. the lack of a "unique voice" that's brought up frequently)

Edited by IkeaHan on Jan 25th 2025 at 12:21:37 PM

Character Specific Page cleanup
ReginaldOgron5 Est Ut Squimplex Ut from Two blocks down from the Undead Burg Since: Mar, 2022 Relationship Status: I want you to want me
Est Ut Squimplex Ut
#1450: Jan 25th 2025 at 1:15:38 AM

[up][up] What [up] said. It's when the article just feels like a person talking and could be interchangeable with any other article as a result (which I guess is kind of like the SD equivalent of People Sit on Chairs).

Edited by ReginaldOgron5 on Jan 25th 2025 at 1:16:07 AM

Wenn sie die Ente hierein lassen, lasse ich das Wasser hieraus!

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