Important note:
- This thread is for discussing individual self-demonstrating character pages. However, it was determined that consensus regarding whether such pages are or aren't necessary or beneficial to the wiki needs to be determined before discussing individual pages, as stated in this mod statement
, so this thread has been locked in the meantime. Please join the policy discussion in this thread
on the Wiki Talk forum.
However, this deletion hints that rules should be in place for self-demonstrating character pages, so does anyone have suggestions for what the rules should be?
I have a few:
- Deadpool has one, no questions asked (even if everyone else's are deleted). Especially Charizard's.
- The character must be able to speak English (or other intelligible languages), except for Rule of Funny (like with Groot's page). Charizard violated this rule. Kyoko's page is fine since she'd be speaking Japanese, for example, which is simply "translated" for reader convenience (largely based on the official subtitles).
- There can be a forum thread where people can post their drafts and suggestions for character pages, similar to the Fanon Pokédex. In this case, new character pages can't be started without being reviewed in the thread. This is to avoid having the wiki oversaturated with pages for characters with boring personalities (like Shu Ouma) or ones with strange speech patterns that aren't for Rule of Funny purposes like Charizard. I can just imagine the chaos that would have ensued if other tropers had decided to follow my lead and create Pokémon Speak pages for about 30 other species of Pokémon.
Any thoughts?
Edited by GastonRabbit on Nov 4th 2024 at 11:22:35 AM
The "distinct voice" aspect, I believe, means consistent, recognizable speech patterns. And a lot of well-known characters simply don't have those. In fact, the more popular and long-lived a character is, the less likely they are to have them.
Take Rorschach from Watchmen. A bit of supplemental material aside, the majority of his existence is 12 issues of a single series written by one man. He has a very distinct, identifiable way of speaking that most writers could emulate.
Now take Batman on the other hand. He's over 80 years old and has been interpreted by hundreds of writers and dozens of actors. The idea that there is a "definitive" version of Batman hasn't existed in decades. The character has been redefined so much that there's almost no "rules" for the character anymore. Even stuff like "son of philanthropists" and "refuses to kill" aren't ironclad guarantees anymore. And with that lack of consistency comes a lack of voice.
Frank Miller's Batman, Grant Morrison's Batman and James Tyrone's Batman all have their own way of speaking and variants in personality. In live-action portrayals we run the gamut from Christian Bale to Adam West. (Which proves even the "gruffness" cited above is far from mandatory - to a whole generation, West was Batman, even if he seems wildly out of character from a modern perspective)
And that comes to the second issue. Comics, animation, etc. are primarily visual media. Trying to get a character across in text alone is harder than it sounds and requires a lot on the part of the writer. (Like those novelty books "written" by Garfield, Miss Piggy, etc. A few sentences in and you're usually hearing the writer, not the character) Let's take Kevin Conroy's Batman as an example, as many people consider him to as close to "definitive" as any. You can write exactly as Conroy speaks - heck, you can transcribe text directly from dialogue he actually said - but without hearing that distinctive voice and seeing Batman on your screen, it soon just becomes generic text, because Conroy's Batman is deliberately played in a subdued way. Text doesn't give you the subtleties and nuances of his acting - it's just the words. Like the difference between reading sheet music and hearing music.
I'm not trying to dictate any regulations about these sorts of pages, as I obviously don't have the authority to do so, and I don't frequent them anyway, so it makes no real difference to me. But I'd just like to say that if a character isn't suited for a self-demonstrating page, that doesn't mean the character is somehow lesser. It's not a badge of shame. If you try and fail to make one for your favourite character, that's not a knock - it takes a specific flavour of character to make one of these pages entertaining to read. That's why the Joker has one but Catwoman doesn't, and Animal has one but Kermit doesn't. The key is just a pinch of Flanderization. Writing the character more broadly than you usually would makes up for the limits of the text-only format. Take The Mighty Thor for example. If I were making a page for him, I'd use the Stan Lee version over the Chris Hemsworth version. Not that the movie version is bad, but the comic version is more distinct, recognizable and fun for these purposes.
For the Kung Fu Panda inquiry - I've never seen the movie, but if Po is as hammy and over-the-top as Jack Black's other characters, there's definitely potential for a good page there. And if it doesn't work, remember - it's not a demerit against the character.
Yeah, the "distinct voice" isn't necessarily about personality, just speaking style. If the Self-Demonstrating page would just be a first-person trope page with nothing interesting, it doesn't make for an interesting read.
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper WallNeku Sakuraba is "original character page but in first person" and... scrolling down, they didn't even try to make the rest of the entries fit.
Guys how cool would it be if Super Megaforce had a green ranger...So Sword Art Online Yuuki Konno got created a few hours ago. However, the byte count for the page is currently at 37,919 bytes. Should it get merged back to Sword Art Online Major Characters? Thanks.
Wrong thread, you're looking for this one
I just posted the Sword Art question in the Character Specific Pages thread.
Bumping this thread. We never really got to SelfDemonstrating.Neku Sakuraba even though it's a really bad page.
Guys how cool would it be if Super Megaforce had a green ranger...
I'd say it's not worth keeping. He has a bit of personality that could be reflected, but not really a whole unique style of conversation.
So I don't want to sound rude, but it's been over three months now and nothing's been done about what seems to be the main problem, which is people making a Self-Demonstrating Article for whatever character they like, regardless of whether or not their personality is suited for such a page, and then it being sent to the cutlist, rinse and repeat. Is there possibly a way to lock the Self-Demonstrating Article feature so that future pages can be vetted somehow?
It's possible for the namespace to be locked, yes. Historically, though, the mods have rejected that option, and TBH as someone who personally favors it the fact that this thread has been inactive for so long isn't really compelling evidence for changing that position, though I admit it's possible that a bunch of bad new Self-Demonstrating pages have been made and simply gone unnoticed.
So, I was just going through the namespace and found a bunch of self-demonstrating character pages that are currently not listed on the main index. There are as follows:
- Aang (Avatar: The Last Airbender)
- Demona (Gargoyles)
- Dexter Morgan (Dexter)
- Kimi Finster (Rugrats)
- Mai Shiranui (Fatal Fury)
- Zasalamel (Soul Series)
Some of them I think have enough content, but are they worth putting up? Are there any that should be cut for whatever reason?
Haven't looked at the others yet but SelfDemonstrating.Kimi Finster doesn't have a unique voice at all. I'll be fine with cutting that one.
Edited by MacronNotes on Jul 6th 2022 at 7:24:49 AM
Macron's notesSo a SD page for Thrackerzod was made today.
I have no idea if this character warrant one (it's from a MLP Abridged series), but it seems to be not a legitimate page.
SelfDemonstrating.Felicia was made last month and it's... well, just a first person character page with no voice whatsoever.
The only reason I found it was that the creator posted on the discussion page. I would really like the namespace to be locked. Yes, this thread isn't terribly active, but that's because frankly, we just don't notice most of these bad pages being made.
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.

...Uh, "No distinct voice" isn't referring to the literal voice of the characters/actors. It means that the way the character talks isn't distinctive enough to justify a self-demonstrating page.