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On another note, I just learned that one of the early candidates before Schwarzy for the role of Terminator was… O.J. Simpson. Talk about dodging a bullet. >.>
Yes, O.J. Simpson playing a remorseless killing machine stalking a woman would have been kind of disturbing in hindsight.
IIRC, Cameron decided not to cast OJ because he thought audiences wouldn't buy that someone so nice could be a killer.
This is why the Harsher in Hindsight trope exists.
"OJ says fuck the white man, the moon, and his mama."
Good thing Black Dynamite threw that rock before he left the moon.
Edited by slimcoder on Nov 18th 2019 at 6:33:56 AM
x4 Man, that's so horrible it's almost funny.
Edited by HailMuffins on Nov 18th 2019 at 11:50:51 AM
What do you think was the best action scene out of the franchise? Here is mine. God, those synths as the T-800 got closer to his target brought shivers up my spine! It's just like when John Wick slowly walked towards Iosef Tarasov at the Red Circle nightclub!
Edited by The12thDoctor on Nov 19th 2019 at 11:49:06 PM
Honestly still coming down from seeing Carl take on the Rev-9.
Rock'em sock'em robots, indeed.
The entire foundry climax of T2 is the highlight of the entire franchise. An insane highway chase involving a helicopter and a liquid nitrogen semi truck crash, "Hasta la vista, baby," the T-800 getting the absolute shit beaten out of it while remaining just as relentless in defending John and the Shapeshifter Swan Song defeat of the T-1000.
I do still consider the T-800 fight in Salvation to be pretty damn awesome, however flawed the rest of the film may be.
Apparently Tim Miller and James Cameron didn't exactly agree with tons of stuff...
For example, Jim wanted Legion to be from a human-occupied good future while Tim wanted the future to be a machine-owned bad one.
Holy crap, depending on how that played out that very well could have redeemed the core problem with the movie. The crux of the original Terminator was that the Time Travel was a desperation move because Skynet was on the verge of destruction. Dark Fate repeated the Terminator Twosome without explaining the desperation. Reversing the situation, where Legion sees itself as Le Resistance trying to improve their situation would have made Dani's future impact far more interesting. In fact I was initially thinking that Dani could have been something more lateral like the key developer of Grace's cyborg enhancements instead of being the "girl boss".
If that is what Tim wants, then the whole plot should have been Dani being the creator of Legion, and the moral dilemma of murdering an innocent for unwittingly creating a bad future before the action actually occurred. Not to mention the blurring of lines of who's the bad guy and the good guy with Legion trying to ensure its existence rather than terminating its enemies before they take up arms.
Isn't the first half of that in Terminator 2?
Edited by Tuckerscreator on Nov 22nd 2019 at 6:43:46 AM
Yes. "Creator of the bad machine helps to strangle it in its crib" is the entire reason that Miles Dyson is in T2.
I still maintain that T2 is fundamentally impossible to sequel without shitting all over the franchise. But if we absolutely must have more movies, here's what I want to see. Not necessarily in the same movie.
Edited by TobiasDrake on Nov 22nd 2019 at 8:01:12 AM
If they wanted to differentiate Legion from Skynet, why not make it so Legion wants to control humanity instead of destroy it?
It'd reflect our current fears about technology. During the '80s, the Cold War was still in the public consciousness and MAD was a very real fear. While nuclear annihilation is still a possibility, it's not the complete certainty it was several years ago.
Nowadays, people's fears about tech is how it's used to control and manipulate society. Of people using advances in tech to strip away people's freedoms and privacy. So instead of Skynet wiping out humanity, Legion has installed a totalitarian order where all serve the greater good or else. There's no hiding, no free will, just complete servitude to the master AI that controls every aspect of people's lives.
You could even have Legion have human servants who travel back in time with the Terminator to ensure this future will happen. That Legion has completely brainwashed enough people into believing this future is the only path, and they'll do anything to help it come into fruition.
But it's a moot point at this rate. The film's out and Legion is just Skynet Vista.
You know, that would also make Legion more like a Well-Intentioned Extremist who thinks its doing everything For The Greater Good. And I recall one of Cameron's interpretations of Skynet was that it wasn't inherently evil and actually regretted its impulsive actions to destroy humanity. Yeah, that would make Legion stand out from the typical Skynet model.
The Sarah Connor Chronicles did this, but then it got canceled so we never got see where they were going with it...
The movie never fully explains how the future resistance knew about Carl. I'm guessing something was lost in the edit or never fleshed out in the script, but I had a thought that it would have been far more interesting if Carl was the originator of the human resistance against Legion. Sending a terminator to kill the destined terminator, which the humans have to protect would have been a delightfully weird twist. And especially compared to 3 and Genisys, Carl managed to push the Arnold T-800 "character" into new territory rather than just repeating the same token good terminator motif. Not to mention it has a mindbending concept of an erased timeline influencing the new possible future.
The problem is still that I can't develop what exactly Grace and Dani are in the movie for. If anything, it's the obsession with Save This Person, Save the World that harms this movie, as it doesn't bring anything new to the table. Sarah and Kyle's love affair producing John, who in turn sends Kyle back in time to protect her and conceive him set a high standard with the Stable Time Loop developing the central characters. Here it's just Grace having a high reference for Dani, although there is something possibly interesting as they find an adolescent Grace in the denouement.
Skynet trying to save humanity in its own way was originally going to be part of Salvation.
About Terminator: Dark Fate, I felt that one of the movie's strengths was that the film was both an ending and a beginning. Considering how Sarah left with Dani to train her for the upcoming Legion, there would be new ways to take those two forward in their journeys if there was a sequel. And if this film really is the end (Which is more likely due to the box office failure), it's a good old-fashioned "And the Adventure Continues" ending, helped by the Book-Ends shot of Sarah and Dani driving through a sunny neighbourhood, just like the first shot of Sarah driving her moped, 35 years ago.
If this does wind up being the end of the franchise, then they need to make one more movie. Specifically, this one.
Regarding Legion, I actually think the Sentinels from X-Men are more realistic AI villains then Legion or Skynet, stupid bigoted robots created by stupid bigoted humans, that is what we see in AI today, rather then super genius AIs who can destroy humanity.
Next live action Terminator media should have a bad guy dog Terminator.
Not as like the primary antagonist. Just this friendly dog that turns up and then unexpectedly goes mental and is revealed to be a Terminator.
Edited by Whowho on Dec 20th 2019 at 12:28:59 PM
A dog who is very proficient with guns.
A Terminator puppy you say?
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How well does it match the trope?