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Terminator (film franchise)

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GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#251: Oct 28th 2019 at 12:15:33 PM

Just saw the film. I really enjoyed it, but then I enjoyed Terminator 3 so I'm not a very good barometer for these things.

I do think the film fails to give the two main new characters enough development time time. I liked them, but as the film goes on they kinda fall to the wayside for long stretches, which is dissapointing. For example, I loved the pharmacy scene. It gets across both of their characters, establishes a weakness for Grace, and shows the beginning of Dani's development as she makes the choice to grab the gun and aim it at the people in the store when Grace no longer can. Scenes like that kinda stop happening for them when Sarah and especially Carl become more involved. They still do stuff, but I didn't get the impression that the film was as interested in them as with, say, Sarah Connor.

I also think the film peaks early, and none of the action scenes are as cool as the first big one. But then, I've felt like that with most of the Terminator movies.

And the film acts like Dani being the leader of the new resistance is surprising. Which felt kinda weird. It makes sense why the characters involved would be shocked, but I can't imagine anyone in the audience failed to see it coming, and they wait a long time before adressing it.

Edited by GNinja on Oct 28th 2019 at 7:24:18 PM

Kaze ni Nare!
LDragon2 Since: Dec, 2011
#252: Oct 30th 2019 at 6:47:11 PM

Wait a minute, beloved main character gets killed off just to be replaced with a "hipper and more current-leaning character? Also, it features an utterly wasted villain and goes against themes set in the previous movies, along with desperately trying to lay the ground-works for a new film featuring these new characters, and includes extremely sloppy editing due to creative differences inside the team behind the movie? And it's written by David S. Goyer?

Where have I heard that before?

...

...

...

...Dang you Goyer. You just can't stop ticking me off with your butchering of my beloved series can you?

Edited by LDragon2 on Oct 30th 2019 at 6:59:35 AM

Prowler I'm here for our date, Rose! Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
I'm here for our date, Rose!
#253: Oct 31st 2019 at 7:30:39 AM

[up] Why are you blaming Goyer? Cameron put together an entire writer's room who hashed everything out collectively. There's no one person to take the blame, tempting as the thought may be.

GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#254: Nov 1st 2019 at 12:13:35 AM

I feel like the "They never learn." line from Sarah could've been focused on a lot more to defy the idea that this movie renders the second movie meaningless.

Because critics say that Dark Fate goes against the themes of Judgement Day. "Fate is what we make of it", apparently, and yet a nearly identical apocalypse just goes and happens anyway despite the best efforts of the Connors.

But I think there's an interesting avenue to be explored that the movie kinda glosses over. Which is that the problem might not be solely the Connors' to solve. "Killer A.I.s" might not be an event that can be stopped by the actions of a small group of people. Creating A.I.s that will go crazy isn't inevitable because time says it is, but because nothing has adequately adressed the underlying systemic reasons why humanity would build these A.I.s. I'd compare it to something like global warming actually. 1 or 2 people aren't going to stop global warming even if they kill a few oil tycoons. There needs to be a marked societal shift in how we do things in order to stop a monumental threat like that.

And then you could even build to this concept being reversed on Skynet/Legion itself. Have them succeed in killing who they think will lead the resistance, only it doesn't work, because society has changed enough that a central figure isn't needed anymore. It is now "inevitable" that they will be stopped, and no single assassination in the past will stop that.

Go the collectivist route rather than the conquering hero route.

Edited by GNinja on Nov 1st 2019 at 7:16:20 PM

Kaze ni Nare!
The12thDoctor Since: Feb, 2016
#255: Nov 2nd 2019 at 2:04:11 AM

I watched Dark Fate just now, and this opinion is just coming from someone who recently watched the first two and was expecting a trilogy capper.

This film was actually great at distinguishing itself from the first two while adding nostalgia moments. The positives were the Mexico setting, the brighter cinematography, the better paced third act than Terminator 2: Judgment Day and the deeper plot and characters. I cared for each of the players in an ever growing game of time travel, especially Grace and Dani. The best one, however, was the new T-800 (Carl). His remorse and guilt over assassinating John Connor (Something I never minded and was a legitimate surprise) was so subtle because of Arnie's acting, and his final atonement was the best moment of the film. The symbolism of his burning body lying against the Rev-9's destruction like yin and yang, "For John" and the final zoom-in on Sarah's face through Carl's perspective all added up perfectly.

The only problem I had was that while Sarah had some badass moments of her own, I felt her character arc was not as strong as the others. It was mainly defined over the loss of her son John, similar to David Dunn's arc over his son Joseph in Glass. And wasn't her hatred towards Carl a repeat of her hate towards "Uncle Bob" in Terminator 2?

To make a long story short, I'd say that this is second best for me, under the first one.

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#257: Nov 2nd 2019 at 5:17:46 PM

The film's expected to hit an opening weekend of $26.7m. Note that Wonder Woman, the film Cameron likely made this movie as a response to, hit $103.3m in its opening weekend.

Wonder Woman also had a $149m budget to Dark Fate's $185m. Things aren't looking good for Cameron's attempt to mansplain feminism.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#258: Nov 2nd 2019 at 5:26:31 PM

[up] Heh that's funny. tongue

Man I feel like they should stop making Terminator movies at this point.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#259: Nov 2nd 2019 at 5:27:23 PM

Maybe what they need to do is do a complete reboot at this point

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#260: Nov 2nd 2019 at 5:49:49 PM

I feel the franchise just lost the goodwill of audiences after so many lackluster sequels. None of the post-T2 films have surpassed the box-office results of Judgement Day, even with inflation. Maybe if the word-of-mouth surrounding the film was better, that might have changed things. But it's been mostly mixed, and there wasn't really much of a hook to bring in audiences aside from bringing Hamilton and Cameron back.

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#261: Nov 2nd 2019 at 6:13:22 PM

[up]x4 - Yeah, the male interpretation of feminism vs the female interpretation of feminism is quite humorous when out in that context. Namely how Wondy is inherently...feminine while Cameron’s characters play Real Women Don't Wear Dresses to the hilt.

Years ago, I remember reading an interview with a female comic writer, and I forgot what it was for (Think it was the Devil’s Due Voltron comic) but she mentioned that when men tried to write an Action Girl it was often the “dude with boobs” where they are so afraid of something being stereotypically feminine they eschew any and all feminine aspects of the character as if they’re something to be offended by. “No, we’re totally not turned on by this, see?”

Personally, I think there’s definite franchise fatigue at play. Terminate this franchise, for at least a decade or two.

TamH70 Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
#262: Nov 2nd 2019 at 9:04:30 PM

I think I might see this one eventually, out of curiosity if nothing else, but I'm definitely not up to go and see it at the cinema. I'm just not invested enough in the thought of catching it first-run.

Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#263: Nov 3rd 2019 at 9:03:59 AM

Seen it. As a standalone movie it's definitely the best of the post Terminator 2 films.

That said there's something inherently... clunky about Saying they did stop judgement day and kill John Connor only for the exact same scenario to occur, but just with everything named differently.

GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#265: Nov 3rd 2019 at 12:23:29 PM

The feminism stuff is also weird when one you realize that one of Sarah's big moments in the film is being sexist and assuming that a woman couldn't be the leader of a resistance movement. Which is set up just so that she can be proven wrong in a theatrical way later. Her use of the word "womb" too reminded me of that cut speech from Terminator 2, to the point where I wonder if it was considered canon in the writers' minds as they were putting this together

Edited by GNinja on Nov 3rd 2019 at 8:28:12 PM

Kaze ni Nare!
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#266: Nov 3rd 2019 at 2:42:14 PM

I think I'd have preferred a sequel to Genysis, because so much of this film feels like a retread of that one. This film doesn't seem to end with the possibility of anything new happening, where as the ending of Genysis actually felt like the franchise could go in a number of directions.

Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#267: Nov 3rd 2019 at 2:49:06 PM

Looks like this franchise may be terminated:

[1]

Another bomb for Paramount, who really cannot afford another bomb.

Edited by Overlord on Nov 3rd 2019 at 3:19:04 AM

CommanderAce Commander Thor from Planet Earth, United States Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Commander Thor
#268: Nov 3rd 2019 at 2:57:28 PM

Well there’s the copyright termination notice the original film got going into effect next year anyway, so Judgment Day was inevitable.

Power of Thor!
Mega_zxa Since: Mar, 2015
#269: Nov 3rd 2019 at 2:59:14 PM

[up]x3 Honestly it does help Genisys that its whole Terminator infection could work as a movie on its own.

Edited by Mega_zxa on Nov 3rd 2019 at 3:01:17 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#270: Nov 3rd 2019 at 3:12:58 PM

It really is a red flag to do multiple consecutive reboots.

Also its a dumb move because audiences are naturally gonna react in confusion. A casual viewer like me pretty much react "WTF is going on with these movies" if everything is just gonna get retconned to Hell.

I'm not sure what these movies are about anymore.

Edited by slimcoder on Nov 3rd 2019 at 3:14:58 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#271: Nov 3rd 2019 at 3:15:32 PM

Do the people making them even know anymore, either? It feels like they are just trying to see if any half baked idea they might have could work at this point.

Wake me up at your own risk.
Dhiruxide Since: Dec, 2016
#272: Nov 3rd 2019 at 3:16:44 PM

Either a full-fledged reboot taking franchise to new directions while retaining basic premise or...

Leave it to die off completely.

Guess first two movies are the ones I'll forever stick with, unfortunately.

Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#273: Nov 3rd 2019 at 3:41:48 PM

Halloween has come back from several bad sequels. Terminator may do the same one day.

The legend has returned.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#274: Nov 3rd 2019 at 4:27:39 PM

The problem with Terminator is that it's not a film that really makes sense for franchising.

The setup is pretty basic. There's this dude, John Connor, who shoots lightning from his dick and singlehandedly punches out Robot Hitler. As a last ditch effort before total annihilation, the machines send someone back in time to strangle his mum. The humans send someone to make that not a thing. WACKY PLOT TWIST, dude is John's father. The end.

That's not a franchiseable premise. There's very little leeway to tell any other kind of story beyond "Machines try again, I guess". T2 already milked what sequel potential there could be by changing things up from Stable Time Loop to actively changing the future and thwarting Judgment Day.

But then that's it. It's done. It's over. There is nothing else you can do with this very specific premise about these very specific individuals in these very specific circumstances.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Nov 3rd 2019 at 5:29:31 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#275: Nov 3rd 2019 at 4:31:53 PM

I said the same thing about Kingdom Hearts and it's going on strong for over a decade now.

When there's money to be made, executives will find a way.


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