Terminator (film franchise)

Here be the thread for all discussions of this film franchise.

One question that has been bothering me for a long time: Terminators are both self-described and described by human characters as being "cybernetic organisms"/"cyborgs" due to having living flesh over a mechanical endoskeleton. Is that an accurate description, though? The flesh-covered Terminators have shown themselves to be perfectly capable of operating without said flesh, and IINM the T-1000 and the T-X are still called cyborgs (at the very least by implication in the latter's case, via describing it as designed to hunt down "other cybrogs") despite lacking any organic components.

I don't think it is. We've seen terminators that never had artificial flesh to begin with and couldn't possibly have it. There was the T 1000, which is in no way a cyborg but more like a hive mind of Nanites. Anyways, They're planning on making another movie, with a working title Terminator: Genesis, starring Arnold Schwarcshennger

Yeah, saw a mention of that on the Other Wiki, but couldn't decipher what did they settle upon for its plot/premise. At one point, at least, it was to be a 3D reboot.

It still is. Going off of this information, it sounds like they could be setting up an AU where Kyle doesn't die.

edited 9th May '14 7:03:12 AM by Mort08

I agree that the Terminator is more robot than cyborg. Maybe there's confusion in the Terminator universe in that- until their pseudoflesh is melted away- they resemble cyborgs. You'd think Skynet would know this, but who knows how much self-development the terminators did.

The reboot sounds like it may be promising. Jason Clarke as John Connor, some Khaleesi action and Matt Smith just recently signed up.

I wonder if Matt Smith is Kyle Reese.

No, they've already cast Jai Courtney as Kyle.

Boy, am I a latecomer to this franchise. A friend suggested I watch the first two because they're good and easy to follow for a movie n00b such as I.

He was right. My "No, no, this is new, don't pay any attention to it" filter was tested quite hard on Judgment Day, but I finally broke past that and appreciated the moments of awesome therein. As I said in another thread, the second movie set up an unlikely combination of protagonists and made me want to care about their success.

The first film and the second are the only good ones. The fourth was better than the third.

The third movie was built around the Fanservice of a Norwegian-American model running around with big breasts and killing everything in sight. Oh, and warping the story back around so Judgement Day still happens.

The second movie's my favorite, but the third one's still just fine for me. Kristanna Loken is pretty.

edited 10th May '14 5:16:29 AM by Journeyman

For all the intensity of my hatred for it, T3 is still the only one of the franchise I ever bought merch for. I like it, but it isn't really a Terminator film. THOSE have Arnie, Linda Hamilton, Michael Biehn in them and are directed by Jim Cameron. T3 and that thing with American Psycho Batman are terminator-ish. Barely.

A big part of what made the first two Terminator movies work was the atmosphere built around them and how effectively they portrayed the robots as ruthless killing machines. There is no doubt if Arnie or Robert Patrick got a hold of their targets that they would snap their neck/shoot them in the head/run them through with rebar instantly, so the entire movie was basically running away. That's what really turned me off from Salvation, because none of the Terminators had that same efficiency with their attacks. Once the T-800 comes into play it become a generic strongman fight where it no-sells their attacks and merely tosses them 30 feet away, giving them the chance to recover and try something different. I also never really bought into the plot, it felt overly complicated and much too reliant on past movies. All John Conner did and talked about was his mothers tapes, and while Marcus had an interesting premise it didn't really go anywhere.

Terminator 3 had its moments but was offset by being almost a complete rehash of T2's plot along with some rather mood-breaking humor. T2 had the hip lingo come from a 10 year old kid, and thus was kind of endearing to have the straight face Arnold bond with a kid by saying "Hasta la Vista, Baby." Having him imitate a burlesque dancer by saying "Talk to the hand" was meant to be something similar but fell WAY short. It does do some things right, many of the action scenes have a similar intensity, especially the downtown chase where Arnold kicks an ambulance over.

For me The Terminator is easily the best of the series. It has the tightest script, best future scenes and really likeable main characters. Terminator 2 has more spectacle and is still good but for some reason I cared more about Kyle's and Sarah's relationship than about Terminator's and Johns. I also prefer the score in the first movie.

Terminator 3 is when the series really went down hill. It has some decent action in it but I don't care about the characters as much as in the first two movies and the action feels too non-stop with no room to breathe. The first two movies knew how to pace the action sequences appropriately.

Whereas Terminator 3 was exhausting, Terminator Salvation is just plain boring. It really takes long time for the plot start properly, the setting isn't as gritty as in the future scenes in the earlier movies and the terminators didn't feel as menacing as in the first two or even the third movie.

I cared a lot about the Terminator/John relationship in the second movie. That whole "now I know why you cry" thing and Terminator explaining that he has to sacrifice himself? Tear Jerker time!

Also, you preferred the first movie's score? All that synth brass that couldn't be more obnoxiously mid-80s if it were wearing leg warmers? You're crazy, man. Judgment Day has Dwight Yoakam and George Thorogood in the bar scene alone, which gets a major thumbs-up from me.

My problem with the first movie is that it felt a little too tightly scripted at times, and came off just a tad underwhelming. The stop motion also hasn't aged very well. I thought that the stop motion looked quite Narmy. Also, there weren't nearly as many character moments: I couldn't get too much into Sarah's character arc or her relationship with Kyle, which felt rather strained to me.

I have a short attention span, so I was initially apprehensive about Judgment Day being 2 hours long, but two of my friends told me "it's not as long as it feels" (That's What She Said). And I think they were right: the film does tend to flesh out everything a little more deeply and give its plot elements more room to breathe while still moving at a good enough clip that it doesn't ever feel like it's dragging.

edited 10th May '14 5:46:01 PM by Twentington

With how often Arnold Schwarzenegger's tough guy image has been parodied, it was a surprise for me when watching the Terminator films to see how powerful that original image really was. He really DOES feel like a badass killing machine, unstoppable and inhuman.

edited 10th May '14 7:50:22 PM by Tuckerscreator

And his bizarre speech patterns make him convincing as a form of artificial intelligence.

What's more amazing is that in the sequel, he keeps up that indestructible killing machine image without even killing a single person.

Much collateral damage and blunt trauma. But no killing.

He doesn't even injure anyone with that mini-gun.

Which shows how truly skilled he really is. The blunt force trauma is from the gas canisters hitting people in the stomach and dropping them.

The only one I've seen most of is Salvation, and only with Rifftrax equipped. IMO, Christian Bale ruins that thing. Every time it cuts to him I think "No, go back to Chekov and the Avatar guy!"

I plan to watch the original sometime this summer, though.

edited 10th May '14 8:51:39 PM by Mort08

Just about everyone agrees that Anton Yelchin was the best thing going for Salvation, it was uncanny how much he embodied Kyle Reese as a teenager. With Bale and Worthington you could almost feel the ego on the screen, which sometimes works if the script is strong enough, but it wasn't.

I never watched Salvation. Only really seen Terminator 2 all the way through and half of the show.

The relationship between the Terminator and John in T2 worked just fine. I just preferred the love story in the first movie and future scenes really make you feel for Kyle Reese's character. It might not be the deepest love story ever but it worked really well anyway. The reason I prefer the score in The Terminator is because it is much harsher sounding but it's also slightly more versatile than the one in T2. The score in T2 sounds somehow much more "grey" than in the first movie, whereas the bass sequencer in T1 really gets your adrenaline flowing.

I honestly thought Kyle was kind of bland.