Killing Floor 2

All I really want in Killing Floor 2 is the ability to host listen servers for private games.

Hit detection in versus seems really weird/bad, at least for melee. I would routinely have attacks that seemed to just pass through people, and nobody even had ping above 70ms.

On the first versus server I joined, the Zeds won in the first wave while I was waiting to spawn. I figured things seemed a bit Zed-sided, especially with how people kept spamming the Gorefast's spin-slash (which no one can parry yet), so I joined Survivors next round.

No Survivors died until the boss, which we eventually beat with two men standing.

Since I was playing level 25 Berserker, I asked how many seconds they could move in the frozen time ("1 second" was what someone answered). I also tried to type "Toki yo tomare.", but misspelled something until the fourth time.

I have played the new VS Survival mode for a bit. It was pretty fun. I like the new Winchester weapon. I definitely can see some potential coming out of this mode. I have noticed a few problems however....

• That hit detection problem mentioned above is really annoying. Happened to me a few times
• PC Crawlers are borderline useless (even the kamikaze ability does very little) especially against higher level survivors. I think they definitely need more damage and perhaps and evade button. Possibly need more radius on the kamikaze ability as well. Would make it harder for Survivors to camp
• The zed spawning system is not that great. Sometimes it can spawn zed players infront of the survivors. Sometimes it can spawn zed players in pretty good places. Sometimes it will spawn zed players outside the map or in bugged locations (This mainly happens on the new prison map)
• The RNG for the zed spawning system is also pretty bad. Since we can't choose which zed we want we can get stuck with PC Crawlers or PC Clots in a situation were they are borderline useless. PC Sirens are very useful but it seems the RNG can be a dick and barely give you them when you need them
• Only one PC Fleshpound and 2 PC Scrakes. Was pretty disappointed by that
• PC Husks seem to not do very much damage on there fire snipe ability? Atleast that is a issue with normal difficulty
• We definitely need a mode higher then normal for the higher level Survivors. Zeds will have a hell of time taking out a team with 2 or more high level medics, It's very frustrating to coordinate a attack on the team only to see said medics somehow power through it. Need more waves as well
• Zed spawns seem to run out on the PC Patriarch boss fight. The Patriarch himself seems kinda weak honestly

Most of these problems could likely be solved with more waves and higher difficulty levels for the high level survivor players to play on.

The lever-action rifle seems to do exactly 100 damage, which is enough to kill a Cyst or weaker in one shot, Gorefasts in two, and Husks and Siren in two headshots on most difficulties and team sizes. It's nice as an early-game sidearm (unless you're a Gunslinger or Demolitionist with Off-Perk, in which case the Deagle is better), but it's also pretty heavy.

The crossbow does about 380 damage. In solo play, it's hilariously effective against giant Zeds, because it can kill them in two headshots at any difficulty level. With other players, it's still pretty useful against them because headshots stun Scrakes and the damage type is Piercing (150% damage to Fleshpounds). For Husks and Sirens, it's also good, but perhaps a bit unwieldy. The slow speed makes it mediocre against common enemies and bosses (which you can't decapitate). Off-perk, it's probably best paired with a perk weapon that's good at killing common enemies quickly, like an assault rifle or a flame thrower.

I modded the game to mute the trader pod. But I heard that since the Be the Zed update, her bitchy lines got removed. Will she no longer complain about armor-less and low-ammo players now?

I don't recall hearing her complain about it no.

I have already gathered up a small tiplist for VS Survival mode...

• Do not try to go lone wolf on either side on VS. Zeds and survivors on there own can be killed rather easily. About killing survivors easily...
• If you get a PC Siren do not waste it. PC Sirens have a immobilizing scream ability that can get a single survivor killed in seconds if other zeds are beating on them. Also like NPC Sirens PC Sirens can attack Survivors threw their armor.
• PC Gorefasts can do a lot of damage (probably bugged a bit). Make sure to attack with your team to avoid getting killed fast
• PC Bloats can take a lot of damage and have a knock back attack and a mine attack. Use these abilities to corner survivors
• PC Fleshpounds can rage manually. Save your rage for team attacks and buddy up with your PC Scrake and Siren
• Zeds need to attack as a team with a horde of NP Cs to be effective. Clots can rally up NP Cs

edited 8th Apr '16 10:22:44 PM by Bleddyn

If you went to the trader after her dialogue was finished and had little or no ammo/grenades or armor, she'd condescendingly tell you to get some, even if it won't be necessary. This would happen 100% of the time under those conditions.

I've heard those lines less. Also, killing a giant Zed (or demonstrating good "survival instinct", whatever that was referring to) prompts a line that seems to override any others.

Well, I guess if she still says those lines, I'll keep her muted.

When I said "less", I meant "I don't remember if she ever says those specific lines." If it bothers you that much, then don't bother.

edited 9th Apr '16 11:09:33 AM by thatother1dude

She seems to be more complimentary towards survivors. Especially medics or the people who got the most Zed kills.

Despite being labelled "Normal", PvP doesn't have difficulty levels, because that would require players to select their own handicap—not a good idea for a player-versus-player game mode.

Instead, Zed damage and health scales linearly with average Suvivor level. A level 25 party will face Zeds that do 68% more damage and have 68% more health than those fought by a level 0 party. I don't think that's a big enough difference, especially since going from level 0 to 25 raises a medic's effective heal rate by 350%.

I like that idea more. It would solve the problem of a coordinated zed team having a hell of a time trying to take out a survivor team with 2 or more high level medics.

Played a few more hours of VS, mostly playing Zeds this time. Some more observations:

• Grouped together survivors are practically invincible. They don't need any real coordination; if everyone always has one or two other people looking at them, the Zeds have no way to sneak attack or gang up on anyone. By contrast, coordinating an attack as the Zeds is nearly impossible because which ones you control is randomized and you don't know until you spawn.
• I stand by my statement that there's not enough compensating for higher-leveled players. All the variables that aren't changing (wave length, dosh payout, damage, ammo and item drop rate) are somewhere between what they'd be for a Normal and Hard mission. A level 25 team can do Hard missions in their sleep, especially since really cheesy strategies (like camping the staircase in Farmhouse) only start to falter on Suicidal or higher.
• The wave-to-wave power curve is actually far more broken that the one from levels. The Zed side's best chance of victory is always the first wave, because Zeds start with almost everything (Clots, Gorefasts, even a few Husks and Bloats) while the Survivors have starting weapons, two grenades, and limited ammo. After that, Survivors quickly get weapons that kill everything instantly and are nearly impossible to dodge. All Zeds get is slightly more Husks and Bloats, some Sirens, and a very scarce supply of giants. I've been in at least seven matches that got to the boss (two on Survivor team, five with the Zed) and not a single one ended with a Zed victory. And death penalizes Survivors very little dosh-wise, so even if there's just one Survivor, the rest will come back better armed the next round.
• There needs to be a way to practice as Zeds. Some of them you'll play as extremely little, so when the Random Number God throws you into a Scrake, Fleshpound, or Patriarch it can get extremely disorienting. Every other Patriarch I've seen gets killed with healing vials still left because they forgot to heal or didn't realize they could.
• Playing against Berserkers is not fun. Their swinging arc amounts to an "Instant Death" Radius (especially with the exploding hammer), no surprise attack can kill them fast enough, and they can just kite you if they're on the ropes. I only see high-level Berserkers die when they run off on their own and blindly attack without attempting a retreat or when they get swarmed by 20+ Zeds because they're the only one left on the team.
• Everything thinks going for the Field Medic is a great idea, but it's really never worked in my experience. Medics are hard to spot, too fast to easily chase down (especially through their debilitating gas clouds), and infuriatingly durable because of all that armor and self-healing.
• Zed time should give player Zeds some advantage, or just be removed from VS entirely. A semi-random mechanic that tremendously benefits one side like this is fine in co-op, but it's ridiculous in player-versus-player.
• The third person view is pretty good, but still has moments of getting caught on corners, especially when aiming the Husk's cannon.

A direct hit should do between 50-84 damage depending on level. Does it have to charge or something? Are you sure you aren't attacking a Firebug?

edited 10th Apr '16 9:34:31 PM by thatother1dude

No I was attacking a small group of survivors with no medics or firebugs (or supports). I was more confused as it seems like normal NPC husks can do more damage then what I was doing. The flamethrower attack was doing more damage despite Husks being a sniper zed.

And yeah I noticed that 1rst wave thing and the Zed class RNG issue. I have seen only one person win with Patriarch and that was more because that guy was absurdly lucky.

The Zed class problem was particularly irritating as it seems RNG just loves to give you Crawlers which are borderline useless ATM. The damage for them definetly needs to be upped.

The only other way the zeds can win agaisnt a stuck together survivor team is when you get a Fleshpound and a Scrake together. And even then you have to be careful as the giant zeds can still die absurdly fast.

That medic problem? In one play session I had a level 25 medic lone wolf entire matches and not get killed unless someone managed to trap them with a Siren. Even when we killed the rest of her team that medic still gave us hell.

edited 11th Apr '16 4:04:54 PM by Bleddyn

Most people find them so useless they immediately suicide to spam the gas cloud. It's certainly annoying, but I can't say it's that effective.

The gas itself does neglible damage which is really strange in of itself as the Crawler's other attacks do even less damage then the gas.

If I were to fix it I would just give the Crawler much more damage. Make it's attacks certainly noticeable but don't up it's health for obvious reasons. The gas if it had higher damage (maybe have it prevent healing) could be used to prevent survivors from using cheese camping tactics.

I have noticed a few more problems with VS Survival as of been playing it more after my vacation

• The spawn system is very unusual now that I know how it works. Basically what happens is that you take control of a NPC Zed (The Zeds in question usually explode in a shower of gore and you take your place). The problem with this system is that sometimes it will make you take control of the Zed that is just about to be killed by survivors or you get spawned ridiculously far away on some occasions. The system works at random spawn location wise and randomly chooses which Zed you become. Also, for some reason the system will simply just stop giving Zed players spawns even when there is NPC Zeds still alive.

• There is no locator for friendly Zed players other that the PC Zeds being blue. This can be a bit problematic if the Zed players are trying to set up a coordinated attack and someone gets spawned on the other side of the map with no clue where there teammates are.

• Zed players really need a way to practice, especially as Patriarch or the Fleshpound or Scrake. I can't tell you how many times I have seen someone playing those get killed because they never played said zeds before and have no clue what they are doing.

• The teams should probably be switched after a match is over. This ensures both team getting to play as Zed and Survivors.

• The stumbling mechanic caused by getting shot is beyond frustrating when playing as zeds. This mainly is a problem with higher level players (which is a problem in it's own). I don't mind it if it's a melee bash.

edited 20th Apr '16 1:24:40 AM by Ecrivan

Formerly known as Bleddyn And I am feeling like a ghost Resident Perky Goth

That's because PC Zeds have like four times as much health as NPC Zeds. If Zed team could take control of every single Zed, the Survivors would run out of ammo every round.

Ah okay, forgot about that.

Some more problems I noticed. Mainly involved in balancing.

• High level Berzerkers are ridiculously hard to kill. Even Patriarch or any of the other big Zeds will have a hard time killing one even without a medic. The stumbling mechanic on player Zeds needs to go. On the topic of stuns or slowdowns that get you killed....
• Never thought I would say this but ZED time is genuinely bad on this mode. Why? Zed players when caught in those mode can't do anything but watch as a level 25 player tears through them. This is especially frustrating with a Berzerker
• Demolition Experts can take out ZED players in general with ridiculous ease. This is very frustrating when playing as a ZED and especially frustrating when playing as a a Fleshpound or Scrake
• Zed Players really need to be able to choose where they spawn Left 4 Dead style. I can't tell you how many times I have been spawned ridiculously far away from the main battle or far away from my fellow zeds. I spend half of my time just running to the battle then actually fighting the survivors. On top of that the RNG has a habit of choosing the worse places to spawn NPC Zeds. I have gotten put in areas were I was cut off completely from any other ZED by Survivors with zed classes like Siren which are very important to attacks
• This complaint isn't new but I didn't realize when I mentioned it before just how bad and frustrating it is. Zed players need a way to locate each other. This would help immensely with coordinating attacks especially when you get a Fleshpound and a Scrake together or when you get Sirens
• Again, crawlers continue to be useless. At this point they are pretty much a waste of space. This is especially prevalent during Patriarch fights. It's even more prevalent if the survivors are fighting in a open area which makes the kamikazi attack useless (not that it does enough in the first place)
• Level 25 survivor players are dominating the matches. Even there fellow lower leveled survivors can do jack all at times. On top of this just how sturdy some maxed out classes can be seems to be encouraging more and more lone wolfs or people who can care less about teamwork. In two matches alone I found three lone wolfs, two berzerkers and a medic respectively. This isn't a good thing and more then half of the time the ZE Ds can't do anything about it. If they can then said lone wolf just left there teammates to be eaten alive which isn't a good thing either.
• Husks kamikazi attack seems to not have a consistent radius? I also still think that the sniping attack should do way more damage. The only time you do decent damage is if you can get a direct hit on a survivor which is near impossible most of the time
• Gunslingers seem to not have much to offer in this mode. The other classes can do everything they can better
• Remove the stumble mechanic on player zeds. Seriously. It's not fun to play against, same thing with Zed time
• Patriarch needs some tweaks. Unless you quite literally go directly in the fight swinging you have very little chance if any at all at winning. The zed support you get is not very good. The only Zed that you can get that can do anything against a good team are the Gorefasts and even then that's not saying much as most players will kill you before you get a attack in on them.

At this point I am kind of considering waiting until more things get fixed with this mode. Right now it can be fun at times but it sadly still has glaring issues that makes it hard to enjoy yourself.

edited 24th Apr '16 3:11:38 AM by Ecrivan

Formerly known as Bleddyn And I am feeling like a ghost Resident Perky Goth

Patch preview opt-in out, Sharpshooter included.

edited 10th Jun '16 7:08:48 PM by VutherA

Zed teleporting's being reduced, trash Zeds don't knock you around a bit with every hit and you can goomba stomp crawlers rather than getting blocked in by a 6-inch-high bug-thing.

edited 8th Jul '16 1:15:02 AM by VutherA

I just wish they'd remove the Siren's ability to scream even when a target isn't in sight.

Thank god, that's all I needed.

SWAT perk sneak peek.