General Autism Discussion

You don't have to be in an "official" relationship to be suffering abuse. People with many disfunctions suffer from their own families in the "keep him in the attic and don't let others see him/her" way.

I am just confused a bit with why "Romance" equals "Marriage". There is no implication. There is no correlation. If anything given the loudly touted "low divorce rates" going on then being married is just a 50-50 chance of "Romance"? That's weird statistics, dude.

Correlation does not equal causation and all that, I know. I brought it up because I thought it was interesting and kind of relevant. And I followed it up with the possibility that marriage rates might just be really low because a lot of people on the spectrum might not get the point of marriage as opposed to just living together with someone.

Few "normal" people seem to also not get the point of marriage. Doesn't seem like common knowledge nowadays.

I am curious though. Do you happen to know of any study that points out the numbers of how many people diagnosed with ASD end up married or not?

From several text books (on Google Books and the like) I recall that percentage is in the single digits.

Surplus of synapses may stunt motor skills in autism

From SFARI - Simons Foundation Autism Research Initiative

Okay, this isn't super new information. It was discovered not that long ago that autistic brains don't trim their synapses to get down to a more normal level. But let's read on to see why too many synpases may result in poor motor skills and coordination...

The "mutant" mice are the ones with what the researchers believe to be the mouse version of autism.

So, this is claiming not only that having bad motor skills is common in autism, but also why. I recall Temple Grandin saying that a brain scan showed an abnormally small cerebellum in her, and said "So if someone asks why I'm terrible at activities such as skiing, should I say because I have autism, or because I have an abnormally small cerebellum, or both?" Well, abnormally small or not, this indicates that it's abnormally connected.

Aye, Purkinje cells are a long-suspected culprit in ASD of various forms.

x3 Last I read it was about 1% of autistics who end up getting married.

I'd read that also, but I'd like to know exactly where that number came from. Wouldn't surprise me.

Also would like to know if it means that 1% of autistics are currently married, or have ever gotten married at any time. Like, is our divorce rate particularly high, low, or what?

The PBS documentary Neruotypical features two married couples where one person is autistic and the other is not. One married autistic woman said, "For most of my life I had no friends and I never knew why, and now I know why," in reference to her getting diagnosed. Her husband indicated that her diagnosis would put a strain on the marriage, however, which is not a happy ending.

The other married couple had a man who was autistic, and he was not big on emotion; his subdued reaction to his wife's comments were hilarious. To me. In this case, the wife indicated that she feels closer to her husband after his diagnosis.

edited 6th Jan '15 1:31:23 PM by BonsaiForest

Thought I should share this here: I wrote a post about my experiences with Asperger's, social norms, and the Golden Rule.

I followed the Golden Rule as best I could when I was a kid. Problem is, things that bother me don't necessarily bother others, and vice versa.

I remember when I would have to vacuum the house as one of my chores, and I'd announce before moving in, "I'm going to vacuum. It's going to be LOUD!" I didn't realize until many years later, when I was reading about autism, that many sounds are louder to us than they are to other people. I just assumed, understandably, that because the vacuum sounded almost as bad to me as it would to a dog, that everyone felt this way.

While I'm at it, I want to say something. For most of my life, I ran from my autism diagnosis. I hated it. I hated telling people I had it, so I didn't. I was afraid they'd see me as "retarded" (as if they didn't already, considering how often "retard" was tossed at me when I was a kid), and I hated seeing myself that way. It took me a long time to begin to accept it about myself, and only in the last few years have I really done so. My older brother would show me an article about autism, and I wouldn't want to read it. A TV show is about it, and I'd just see it as a painful reminder of what I was. I ran away from it, and refused to use words like "autistic" and "autism", read anything about it, learn anything about it.

I don't even remember what made me accept what I was. But once I did, I started reading as much information as I could about it. I went through a period of having pride, but now I think there's nothing to be proud of. Whatever it is, it just is.

Are we talking about relationships? Every relationship I've been in has ended suddenly usually due to poor communication about what either party wants out of it. I get kinda nervous talking to people in person, and even online. I've only been on a couple actual dates, and nothing much resulted from them.

To me, the golden rule is nonsensical in itself as in if someone is suicidal, the golden rule would dictate that the person would go in a killing spree as since that the person wanted death, then everyone else should die as well, which is very disturbing in my opinion.

Not quite. The golden rule is just treat others the way you want to be treated.

So if someone is suicidal, the golden rule would be to support euthanasia or not interfere when someone is trying to off themselves.

Hmm...that makes sense, but still very disturbing. Anyway, what I mean is basically everyone is different, thus treating others how self wants to be treated is not always the correct way. In worse cases, one could even cause harm.

I was being told to not give baby products to a former coworker as a parting gift, despite she was pregnant at the time because she could be offended. To be fair, though, she is a very superstitious person and it could be interpreted as cursing her.

I am sorry. This is wildly off topic but...how can such products be interpreted as a curse? What...superstition is linked to that? I have never heard of such thing

It used to be common to wait until after a birth to give gifts... after all, the mother and/or baby had a good chance of not making it; so, best not to tempt fate by suggesting nothing bad could happen, right?

Also, if a father was left with a baby and a funeral, the last thing you'd want to give as gifts would be things for the mother. Or a happy, joyous card with the silver rattle, or what have you.

edited 8th Jan '15 6:29:05 AM by Euodiachloris

Ah, I see. That makes sense, thanks Euo. And sorry for the slight Off Topic.

Trying to unravel the mystery of autism tells us nothing new, but what gets me are the comments people have left on it.

Yes, there are people posting that autism isn't real, that we're just placing a label on bad behavior, etc. Funny, my bad behavior as a kid, the way I would sometimes seemingly randomly laugh or cry in class (it wasn't random, but it would definitely appear that way from the outside), my Tourettes-esque tics (now no longer a problem), etc. was all punished, with me wondering why the hell I couldn't control myself, as I got punished for something I had little to no control over and was desperately trying to control. I'd cover my face to try to prevent myself from getting in trouble for "making faces" (as in, making weird facial expressions that reflected whatever I was daydreaming about). It was agony. I wasn't some "special snowflake" and the teacher couldn't stand me.

Numerous comments on the article were deleted because they broke "the house rules", and there are people condemning those commenters. In addition to the "autism isn't real" comments, there are the "vaccines cause it" comments.

Upsetting. This is an example of what others apparently have to deal with now.

Also, someone claimed that there's no autism in Amish communities (likely another anti-vaccine argument), to which someone posted this study on autism in Amish communities, which found autism indeed, but apparently (according to this singular study) at a significantly lower rate.

edited 8th Jan '15 8:29:56 PM by BonsaiForest

This is a classic pattern of behaviour: People have incomplete information on something and fill in the blanks with suppositions. Which usually (especially when they assume bad faith) are not dependable. The result is some strawmannish nonsense that only barely resembles the actual thing.

Online coments on almost any subject are a glorious source of black comedy. I know I go to my country's paper and run to the comments section when any of the news are related to anything about gay people or something because the crazies flock to it like moths to the flame.

It's funny in a "I am amused such stupidty" exists kinda way.

Personally, I do not think comments sections on news and such have any value outside that.

Likely due to the Founder Effect, IIRC the Amish is a closed off community with relatively poorer genetic diversity, that manes some recessive disorders more common but I bet it makes other less common.

I read two articles on the Amish and how common certain types of diseases are. According to the articles,

• They're less likely to have autoimmune disorders, and seem to never get allergies.
• They suffer from extremely rare genetic diseases with no known cure at an abnormally high rate.

If there's a genetic component to autism (and while there's disagreement on how much there is one, even the reports that claim environment is more important still say genetics plays a role), then I wonder what causes it to be so much less common, assuming the numbers are accurate.

Have there ever been any works of fiction that depicted people with autism/aspergers as villains?

I think I read something about a comic book villain having it, but can't remember. However, Wikipedia's list of fictional characters officially stated as being on the spectrum (it says the list is NOT about speculation) might help lead you to some villains.

Patricia Tannis from Borderlands 2 is stated in the game to have Aspergers, and she isn't quite a villain, but isn't quite good either.

The misguided bid to turn Alan Turing into an Aspergers martyr

It doesn't romanticise Turing. On the contrary, he's portrayed as an unfeeling intellectual snob, a person with no friends, no sense of humour - a man who struggles to make any human connection at all. All those who knew Turing have said they don't recognise this picture and these distortions suggest that the people who've made the film aren't interested in promoting Turing as a gay martyr — a sort of Oscar Wilde figure.

(...)

The Imitation Game isn't a plea for greater tolerance of homosexuals, but of people on the autistic spectrum. Its cause is neurodiversity, not sexual diversity. That's why Turing is portrayed as someone who struggles with ordinary human interaction. He's literal-minded to a fault and is incapable of understanding jokes. He's nothing like the real Alan Turing, who was warm, charming and funny; instead, he's exactly like the main character in The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time. To make a point, the filmmakers have invented a largely fictional character — a mathematical genius with Asperger's syndrome. It's as if they decided that presenting Turing as a victim of the persecution of homosexuals is old hat. So instead, he's portrayed as a martyr to another, more fashionable cause. His crime isn’t being gay, but failing to be neurotypical.

Now, I'm all for giving more respect to people on the autistic spectrum — my half-brother Christopher is on the autistic spectrum — but not because they’re 'special'. The Imitation Game commits a similar error to Rain Man, which seems to argue that Dustin Hoffman's character should be valued and cherished not because he’s a human being with the same needs as the rest of us but because he’s exceptional with numbers. It's patronising nonsense, and as an argument for neuro-diversity doesn’t bear scrutiny. It won't surprise you to learn that Christopher isn't any good at maths.

If the makers of The Imitation Game had done any research into autism, they’d know that "auties" and "aspies" are no more likely to be mathematical geniuses than the neurotypical. It's romantic gobbledegook — the Turing Fallacy par excellence. The filmmakers are peddling this myth in order to burnish their liberal credentials, not because they actually want to improve life for people on the spectrum. My brother lives in a residential community that depends on taxpayer subsidy and that will be put at risk if people think he could just as easily be earning a living breaking codes as he could weaving baskets.

I think it's actually a good thing that acceptance of autism has become the current cause, to the point that stuff like this gets made apparently for that reason. Being fashionable can only help a cause.

However, the fact that they had to pull a fake Aspie out of their ass in order to do so, and make him a super genius, doesn't help. If people start talking about the movie and telling each other "You know Alan Turing wasn't really autistic, and he didn't act like that in real life", then it hurts the cause, because it makes the people who were trying to promote it look fraudulent. If a cause is legit, you shouldn't have to make stuff up to promote it.

Parenthood features an autistic growing up, from childhood to adolescence, humanizing him the whole way. That's the sort of thing we need more of. More movies like Adam, that focus on the regular guy, not "isn't this guy special? He's a genius!" Even the Temple Grandin biopic, while great (and painful for me to watch), still focuses on a genius, although it does show her struggles at dealing with discrimination - discrimination for being weird, for being a woman working in a "manly" field, and her difficulties with social understanding and knowing how to be accepted. It, in effect, shows the two "sides" of this - the "genius" side and the struggles with everyday life.

However, I don't want society getting the false message that autists/Aspies are all geniuses. The "struggles" aspect needs to be focused on more. Adam is one example of that. We need more movies focusing on ordinary, regular Aspies trying to just survive, and the problems they face.

edited 12th Jan '15 11:55:50 AM by BonsaiForest