Trope Pantheons Discussion

mdalsted: I am specifically referring to Pacifist Route Frisk, as that is how they are portrayed in their profile. However, the profile itself doesn't really say anything on the matter.

Eh, i feel that's way too generic for Paragus. The second option i thought was merging him with DBS Broly.

That or removing. What do you guys think who's better? Luis or Paragus?

Barty Crouch has Adaptational Nice Guy.

Edited by Excessive-Menace on Jun 4th 2023 at 9:09:05 AM

@fasoman1996, @ExcessiveMenance

As a note, totally forgot Barty had Adaptational Nice Guy for a second before I made that comment. Edited it as such before I think Excessive's comment was posted. Fusing Paragus' profile into Broly's wouldn't be a bad decision though, as doing so could allow us to free up Drunk on the Dark Side if both versions of Broly and Paragus have the trope.

Edited by Shinobi on Jun 4th 2023 at 9:12:44 AM

I would make suggestion but maybe find a replacement for the Ashen One.

• I'm eventually planning to merge him with the Slayer of Demons, Chosen Undead and the Bearer of the Curse into one profile for Souls-like RPG. This was approved a year ago, I've just taken over reworks into consideration first so pick another character because my reworks are removing any Pantheon-related story characterizations and just sticking to being independent.
• A story is just as good as the profiles being used in the story, problem is Hercule Poirot is a bad profile and is grounds for deletion/replacement and Sherlock Holmes needs a rework beforehand. If any of these profiles are reworks or deleted, then the story would not make sense.

So sorry, I'm not going for this story given we've moved on from this.

Hamana: I can drop the detective stuff, since that's a side plot. And I would replace the Ashen one with Deadpool or another character.

Hello! Been awhile since I posted here. I'm gonna ask: Do we have anyone representing Butterfly of Death and Rebirth? If so, who? I ask because I was wondering if Morpho Knight of Kirby would fit for the trope since they are literally the Kirbyverse's Personification of Death, as well as being a literal butterfly. They would almost certainly be an Overdiety by the way.

Edited by ForgoLight on Jun 4th 2023 at 9:32:55 AM

Mothra has Butterfly of Death and Rebirth. Shinobi has a plan to make a group profile with Dark Meta Knight, Galacta Knight and Morpho Knight for Design Preservation Villain.

Edited by Excessive-Menace on Jun 4th 2023 at 9:34:21 AM

I see. Can I contribute? Sorry if that was a dumb question it's just, hey, here's a butterfly who is literally Death Personified, so why not Butterfly of Death and Rebirth?

If you want to help Shinobi if/when they do their profile, then you can ask them about a potential collaboration, if that's what you're asking.

Alright. Also quick question on the subject of Kirby. Should Magolor and Fecto Forgo get their ranks tweaked a bit? For Mag, I was thinking maybe adding an addendum of "Briefly an Overdeity while using or being possessed by the Master Crown". For Forgo I was wondering if they should be moved up to Greater Deity baseline? I mean even in there larva state they are able to open up country sized portals between dimensions with aftershocks leading to pocket realms, not to mention the whole "mind control the entire planet all at once" part. Likewise Fecto/Chaos Elfilis would maybe be moved to full Overdeity since Fecto Elfilis made Forgo Dreams, an entire universe of it's own, and Chaos Elfilis is even stronger, thanks to the addition of Morpho Knight's essence?

Edited by ForgoLight on Jun 4th 2023 at 9:42:40 AM

Cassette Beasts party have four votes

As for who could represent Baku, the only character that comes to mind is Luna from Animal Crossing. Don't consider this a proposal.

for the Cassette Beasts.

First draft of these reworks

Doctor Weil, God of Abysmal Approval Ratings (Dr. Vile, Dr. Kool-Aid Man, Devil, The Unending Nightmare, Model W, Lord Weil, Dr. Satan Incarnate)

^{Combat form} 

^{Second form} 

• Note: Rework
• Halls: Contempt (House of Hatred and Rancor), Unpopularity (House of Popularity)
• Intermediate God May or may not be a Greater God as Model W
• Symbol: His immortal suit with Model W emblazoned in the background
• Theme Song: "Curse of Vile" and "Fate: Theme of Weil", "Falling Down" when in battle and "Fate: Deep-Seated Grudge" as Model W
• Alignment: Chaotic Evil (pretends to be Lawful Evil)
• Portfolio: The Main Villain Of The Zero Series And Source Of All Misery In The ZX Series , Inhuman Depravity The Likes Of Which The Franchise Is Unfamiliar With, It's All About Me, Psychopathic Manchild, Despises All Humanity And Wishes To Rule A Living Death For His Punishment, Full-Conversion Cyborg, Who Wants to Live Forever?, Mad Scientist, Not A Single Likable Trait Outside His Effectiveness As A Villain, Obviously Evil And Damn Well Knows It Yet Refuses To Accept Any Blame, Having a 0% Approval Rating, Kill Sat, likely Death Seeker, World Sundering, Sadist, Projecting His Belief Humans Live For Control, Emperor Scientist, The Exile, Declares Himself The Unending Nightmare
• Domains: Hatred, Suffering, Depravity, Robotics, Immortality, Revenge, Sadism, War
• Heralds: The Eight Gentle Judges^note sort of, the Einherjar Warriors
• Interested in: Angra Mainyu (Avenger)
• Allies
  • From the same universe: Omega (his main enforcer), Lurrere the Abyssroid
  • Humans and mechanical deities: AM, Kefka Palazzo, Tenjuro Banno, Junko Enoshima, Porky Minch, Burgermeister Meisterbuger
  • Other allies: Melkor, Darkseid, Dis, Molag Bal, Frieza, The Grox, Alduin, the Gravemind, Tenebrae, Dr Weil
  • Unwitting Pawn: Serpent (via Biometal W)
• Rivals
  • From the same universe: Dr Wily, Sigma (predecessor Big Bads), Ra Moon
  • Other rivals: Shinobu Sensui, Wilhuff Tarkin (ideological rivals), Dr Ivo "Eggman" Robotnik (UK Comic and "Julian Robotnik/Kintobor" incarnations specifically), Big Brother, Vandar Adg/Vandal Savage, The Dark Dragon, Dr Gero/Android 20, Moebius, Yuri, Griffith
  • Friendly Rivals: Yuuki Terumi, Johann Schmidt/The Red Skull, The Batman That Laughs
• Enemies
  • Arch-Enemies: ZERO, X, Ciel, Copy X, the Four Guardians
  • From the same universe: Literally everyone else due to how hateful and evil he is, though Dr Light, Grey, Vent and Aile are noteworthy
  • Humans and mechanical deities: Literally anyone he doesn't consider an ally or friendly rival. Especially the following; Steve Rogers/Captain America, Ragna the Bloodedge, Gerald and Maria Robotnik, AZ, SCP-1440, Bob and George, the Five Survivors, Oberyn Martell, The Chosen Four, SKYNET, Venjix, Optimus Prime, any Transformer, NO EXCEPTIONS, Metallix, SHODAN, Samaritan, Bastion, Data, the Detroid Androids, The Master Control Program, XANA, The Immortal Emperor of Mankind, Qin Shi Huang, The Vex, Victor Stone/Cyborg, The Machine Collective
  • Other enemies: The House of Nature (mainly the Nature Preservers), excluding the viler members of the Hall of Toxicity, Clark Kent/Kal-El/Superman, Son Goku, Zamasu, literally anyone not half as evil as him
• Opposes: The House of Law and Justice
• Respects: Acnologia, Asdrubael Vecht, SCP-682 (one-sided on Weil's part)
• Respected by: Professor Hojo
• Wary of: Beerus the Destroyer
• Uncertain relationship (will decide later):
• The era of Mega Man Zero is not a pleasant one, and most of the world is a barren waste. One man is to blame; Dr Weil. Orchestrator of the Elf Wars, he was a scientist who tried to push for removing the free will of Reploids to prevent/as punishment for Mavericks. In actuality, this was a scheme to take control, and when his proposal was rejected he corrupted the Mother Elf and used Omega to wage a war of conquest. In four years 60% of humanity and 90% of Reploids were wiped out and many felt death was more than he deserved; Weil was stuck in a regenerating suit and forced to wonder the wastes forever. This didn't stop him from returning in a century and concocting a scheme to take control of Neo Arcadia. As leader he was an unremitted tyrant everyone despises. Of course this was largely intentional, as he felt humans and Reploid should suffer a living death for a punishment he richly deserved.
  • Even for an immortal, Weil wouldn't last in power for long and Zero can be thanked for that. To ensure no-one could escape from Neo Arcadia Weil had the Ragnarok satellite built to destroy Area Zero, the only other habitable place. Zero would confront him in the Ragnarok Core after he survived being shot by said satellite (less so Neo Arcadia), where he merged with the core to ensure even if it couldn't fire he would crash it into Area Zero. A final duel with Zero stopped Weil, but at the apparent cost of both of their lives. However Weil's soul lingered in the wreckage, forming into the new Biometal W. 200 years after his death his remnants would serve as the next source of Maverick outbreaks.
• Dr Weil is wildly believed to be the most evil deity in the whole Mega Man franchise. He does have his competition, but he still really stands out. As his goals are "rule over humanity and Reploids in a living death", all for a punishment that he deserved, this isn't surprising. Naturally he is hated by virtually every god from his 'verse, to the point only his arch-enemies stand out. The only exceptions are Omega, his loyal servant and the only being he gives any respect, and Lurrere the Abyssroid due to her childish sadism and ties to Biometal W. But if you want more specific examples?
  • He considers Zero to be his biggest arch-enemy, having been the one to put him down. Like the petty monster he is Weil has called Zero a Maverick by pointing out "I am one of those humans you swore to protect!". This is an aspect of Weil's Fantastic Racism; he doesn't think robots have or deserve a soul and should follow their maker's rules. It's patently ridiculous considering Zero wasn't designed with the laws of robotics in mind, killing Weil would save millions of lives, and he's barely human at this point. Also, Zero doesn't seem himself as a hero. In hindsight, X regards not having him executed as a regret.
  • Being a contemporary of his atrocities, the Four Guardians and Ciel have a serious axe to grind against Dr Weil. Harpuia has already turned on his old master for ethical reasons, but the fact Copy X trusted Weil is just plain stupid! In Copy X's defense, he was rebuilt by Weil so he may not have been in the right mind. Copy X is pretty irate at Weil for usurping him, as you could imagine. Also, Gray, Vent and Aile hate Dr Weil despite being born long after his death. Maybe it's because he's Not Quite Dead but menacing them as Biometal W. In this form Weil is the man behind Serpent, and is still manipulating him without him knowing it.
  • Weil is pretty opposed to both of the 21st century's great roboticists, Dr Light and Dr Wily. Not wanting to admit he's in the wrong unless he enjoys it, he blames Dr Wily for all the suffering of the Maverick Wars. Wily accurately pointed out that, while he had a hand in it. Weil surpassed even him in evil. And he may be an envious would-be conqueror, but he's not a sadist. Dr Light is blamed by Weil for Reploids existing and he despises his ideology of humans and robots on equal terms. Hatred towards Weil is one of few things to unite the scientists.
  • Cynics would argue the real reason Dr Wily has a problem with Weil is because he co-opted the body of his masterpiece, and because he thinks he's a rip-off. Weil in turn believes that Wily was a B-grade version of himself. As for Sigma, he feels that Dr Weil is everything he fears and despises about humanity, while Weil feels Sigma is everything he fears and despises about Reploids. There's an enormous amount of Psychological Projection between the two, in case you haven't gotten it already. On a less hateful note Ra Moon is another rival, but because its M.O makes Weil's plans a lot more complicated.
  • Despite never meeting them, Dr Weil has ordered death warrant to Bob and George. Yes the brothers are morally disgusted by Dr Weil and are thankful that as much as time travel sucks for them, they never visited his era, but that's not the reason. Rather it is because their presence causes the setting to become Denser and Wackier. As a villain who benefits from being played completely seriously, they're a monkey wrench and he would feel utterly humiliated if forced to act silly in their presence.
• Though there are psychopaths that respect him such as the warped and power-hungry scientist Hojo, his heinous actions, goals and personality mean his 0% Approval Rating carries over to the Trope Pantheon. Dr Weil is a Hate Sink for the Trope Pantheon approaching that as Zamasu or Yuuki Terumi, the former of which perceives him as everything wrong with humanity. Any fanbase Weil has mainly comes from how good of a job at being vile he does, since he never undergoes Villain Decay. Weil's pretty boastful about his evil, having called himself the unending nightmare or even the Devil. He and Terumi are in a competition for who is the most evil and who can spread the most despair, though unless he's in his more serious Susano'o mode it's the closest such unrelenting bastards get to a friendly competition. One wonders if Tenjuro Banno would challenge him in the "evillest scientist" division should be given the same resources, but they would rather work together to achieve their mutual goals than anything else.
• When he ascended, Dr Weil was left with a choice; should he try to get Melkor's patronage, or Darkseid's? Both appeal to his sadism, but the former's sadism is more exciting to him...however the latter trope is very much in-keeping for him. For a human Weil is so impressively sadistic that both evil gods want him for their cause. It was Molag Bal that made the decision Weil can ask for all three of their patronage, being personally giddy from Weil's domination and cruelty. One wonders asides from admiring their sadism, Dr Weil is hedging his bets in case the rival villains ever score a definitive victory over one another. Recently the cyborg despot has been working with the Emperor of the Kingdom Dolorous, who hopes to express his self-inflicted suffering on creation and thus sees Dr Weil as an apostle of his narcissistic rage.
• Dr Weil does favor Melkor a little bit more than Darkseid in part because he wanted to have the trope Dystopia Justifies the Means first, however none can deny that the Lord of Apokolips was a better fit. Though Darkseid appreciates Weil, he isn't hesitant to point out his childishness and that he allows his sadistic desires to overtake his reason at time; if he seeks to impress him, he needs to adopt an attitude of Tranquil Fury. Big Brother and INGSOC also do not believe Weil is effectively dystopian; it is not enough to crush the populace, but you must stomp out their soul and fill it with yourself. Weil simply replied "that's boring!", as he is too Ax-Crazy to settle for a lawful evil tyranny even if he enjoys the trappings. Of course, it's possible this is some deeply subconscious attempt to provoke a way to finally end his own suffering via outrage, but that's just speculation.
• As the Mother Elf was freed of his corruption, he is unable to use it in conjunction with Omega to control virtually every Reploid. However, there are plenty of avenues he intends to explore to replicate the effect...and why stop at just robots? So you can imagine his consternation when Moebius, an A.I, is planning a similar mass mind control gambit on everyone he can achieve. Darkseid won't deny he gets a kick out of the two's attempt to one-up each other, nor the fact that Yuri is competing with Weil in their schemes to try and mind control everyone. However unlike the two Dr Weil doesn't intend to remove The Evils of Free Will completely as he believes his human subjects should have enough of their personality left to be punished. Tarkin finds this ridiculous; sure, use something like Ragnarok to intimidate the masses. But fear of force is more effective than force, so don't be a Psychopathic Manchild about it.
• One of the first things he plans to outlaw should his unholy desire of taking control of the Trope Pantheon ever come to pass is the elimination of the House of Law and Justice, which he considers worthless ideals. He plans to purge the House of Philosophy should he get what he wants, except for anyone there that agrees with him. His reasons being he finds law and justice a joke because of what humanity did to him. While technically vigilante justice, he more than had it coming and rather than contemplating the error of his ways in a century of exile, he doubled down on his contemptible views. In some ways he could be considered a Foil to AZ and SCP-1440. The two are immortal exiles in their own way due to the former's wrath and the latter's hubris. However they've come to appreciate life and AZ may be guilty of war crimes in the past, but he was never as evil as Weil was. More importantly, they can actually take responsibility for their actions.
• Weil for his part despises all artificial intelligence on principle. A robophobe to the bone he believes all machines should basically be slaves to humanity. The weak justification he uses is that he brushes all A.I under the same stroke as the many notorious A.I who believe in human inferiority and subjugation. Whether it be SKYNET's burning hatred and desire to destroy humanity, or the Samaritan's belief that humanity is better under A.I's thumb, he despises them all and thinks any A.I no matter how noble should be punished for their sins. It's harder to say what robot doesn't hate Dr Weil because of this; the Transformers, Bastion, any robot that values his free will has called this perspective warped and if anything everything he hates in A.I can be found within his own demented mind.
• One of the only artificial intelligences he actually likes is someone who surpasses his loathing towards mankind; AM. AM feels even more trapped than Weil's punishment and he spent over a century inflicting a Fate Worse than Death to the last five humans in order to express his rage. The entire thing was "beautiful" according to Dr Weil and it led to the two making a deal; he will aid AM in spreading mass suffering so long as AM aids him in inflicting living death among his subjects. AM's personal victims were naturally horrified at the idea of even more people suffering their fate, since both Weil and AM are of the same mind all of humanity must "appreciate" at least half the suffering they endure on a daily basis. The fact that Weil is able to even appreciate an A.I isn't out of left field (he respects Omega, after all), but it speaks volumes as to how much alike Weil and AM are that they're capable of getting along in spite of mutual hatred towards each other's kind.
• Weil also hates humanity for a passion; it is very much a self-absorbed misanthropy built entirely around his own suffering, which makes him a contrast to Shinobu Sensui. The latter snapped because of witnessing the depravity of mankind and he considers Weil to be the epitome of why he hates humanity. He is considered a horrific Foil to the Emperor of Mankind, who while an incredibly flawed man is a steadfast believer in the greatness of the human spirit. The Emperor of Mankind is sooner to compliment xenos scum than he is Weil and in spite of their severe differences, he and Qin Shi Huang are united in their disgust over him and his sadistic tyranny. In stark demonstration of his Lack of Empathy, Weil mocked the Emperor for suffering an even worse fate than his own and mocked the way he raised his children. Any point that might've had was lost when he said the primarchs should've been treated as he would Reploids.
• For Dr Weil to come close to liking another human being or an artificial intelligence at minimum they have to be as misanthropically warped as he is. One of the few humans he calls friend is Kefka. Like him, Kefka is an impulsive psycho nihilist who rose to become leader of the world and went out to inflict scheduled suffering to the populace, For the Evulz. He's a lot more flamboyant of course, and is more of a friend to the likes of the Joker. The Batman That Laughs has stated he needs to really up his A-Game as the pantheon's "wide supply of sadists and sociopaths" have escalated since he first showed up. In other words, "you're overshadowed". The Mad Scientist declared that all that means is additional motivation. This might be why he changed his views from seeing Darkseid's dystopia as "boring" to seeing him as a patron; the "sadist power creep" means he's going to need to work for an upgrade.
• Initially the Red Skull got along well with Dr Weil, and to an extent they still do. However with the increase in Nazi deities he's felt that he needs to focus more on the Third Reich's ambitions and the time for sadistic playtime is over. Well, mostly over; their "friendship" is still there, it's just a Friendly Rivalry now. Some of his old "friends" like Freddy Krueger have just left since they've found more people fit to their specific tastes. One old friend stayed, though; Alduin. The dragon holds a cruel streak a mile wide, and though his destiny is to be the World-Eater he shirks it some he may enjoy domination. He seems to just like Weil as a person, which says more about him than anything. A couple other humans who decided to be his "friend" are Junko Enoshima and Burgermiester Meisterburger. Part of the latter finds him kind of intense, but Weil appreciates his dystopian edicts and desire to oppress all fun, albeit in a student-teacher way. Junko could never be broken in a way Weil would want but the tyrant doesn't mind as he wants to see her Ultimate Despair come to pass. If Junko is the lustful side of hope crushers, Weil would be the wrath side of that coin; he's a bit lost with her "kinks" but she has the right spirit.
• It's a lot easier to list down those who don't hate his guts. Both Superman and Goku have declared him to be irredeemable and despicable which is saying something, as has Captain America. Dr Weil doesn't care what they think as he has a strategy to prevent those under his thumb leaving to a better place; destroy that better place. This is a key factor in has waged war on the House of Nature. Think Mr Burns was bad enough? He at least is Laughably Evil; there is nothing laughable about Weil and his desire to scour the Earth into an expression of his suffering while the only place left livable is what's under his domain. The sheer hatred emanating from Weil means Captain Planet cannot come near him, and Weil loves to gloat about it. Like the "Fleetway" Robotnik he's a power-mad dictator and doesn't care about his image. However the more vicious incarnations of Robotnik still seem themselves as superior to Weil while the less evil versions regard Weil with contempt.
• To those who see through the charm of Griffith, they see his "Falconia" as similar to what Weil was planning with Neo Arcadia. Femto's actions were to render most of the world as dangerous and force humanity to live under his thumb, but the major difference is that Griffith wants and works through being a beloved ruler. that's not to say he is motivated by utopia rather and greed and pride, but he prefers the trappings and has dubbed Weil a fool. He's happy that Weil's complete inability to care about other beings means he has no loved ones to sacrifice, since he'd be a dangerous Apostle. Vandal Savage and the Dark Dragon were similarly relieved. Vandal has plans on being the Immortal Ruler of humanity and he has no need of an impulsive psychopath being in charge. The Dark Dragon recognizes the "join or die" approach Weil has and thinks it's perfectly valid, but he despises humans and rebukes his despotism...as opposed to his own, of course.
• Dr Weil doesn't hate aliens and other non-Earthlings, but that's only because they've never affected him personally. Also, some wicked aliens thought he was cool. Frieza considers him amusing in how cruel he is and has allowed him to muck things up, but is quick to remind him that even in his weakest form he's a causal planet-buster so don't think for a second he can get uppity. The Grox are another alien force that he is happy to play The Quisling too as they will aid in his war against nature. Perhaps most worryingly is his alliance with the Gravemind, a force that intends to inflict Dystopia Justifies the Means as punishment for its creations' rebelling and destroying its pre-incarnation. It's a disturbingly similar idea to Dr Weil. The Sith Emperor is another ally, as even if he doesn't make his sadism and cruelty his political policy he certainly has it in abundance and he is another immortal tyrant. He believes that were he Force sensitive
• The absolute closest Weil comes to a Pet the Dog moment, albeit after really stretching the definition, is his awe of Omega. It's bizarre considering his attitude towards everyone and everything. He respects SCP-682 for being an undying Tortured Monster who shares his deep loathing for mankind, though this is one-sided as 682 thinks his Villain Respect "makes him a disgusting REDACTED brown-noser, no better than the rest of them". His value in Omega is why he has an axe to grind with Metallix; Metallix is pretty much Omega if he could talk, but also if he didn't feel like serving Weil. And Dr Weil refuses to lose Omega to Metallix. Asides from that, what vanishingly little remains of his humanity leads him to have a fondness for Porky Minch, albeit only because of their blatant similarities; childishly psychotic people who's immortality has made them manic, crazed Caligulas. Porky's own enemies are well aware of the fact.
• Weil has gone so far as to call Omega a God of Destruction...just not in Beerus' ear space. Granted, Weil would probably find being Hakai'd a blessing given his fate, but being the Sadist he is he's not happy with dying unless he's brought everyone to Hell with him, so he won't provoke the cat. However he is interested in the sheer power creep of the Dragon Ball universe. Mainly, he wants to capitalize on the cybernetics of Dr Gero and upgrade himself into a more powerful body. He also holds some begrudging respect for Acnologia and the leader of the Dark Eldar. The latter considers him self-important and small-time, knowing nothing of true sadism and suffering...though he's not surprised Weil would admire him. Acnologia gets why Weil has an accord with his own misanthropy, but would rather he leave him alone.
• If you want to see him at his most enraged, call him a Maverick. Despite being worse than any Maverick in history, despite becoming the source of a new Maverick plague, Weil refuses to ever be associated as one. No matter what he does.

Elpizo, God of Power-Induced Corruption (TK-31, Elpis)

^{Click here}  for his first transformation due to the Dark Elf

^{Click here}  for his second Dark Elf transformation

• Note: Rework
• Hall: Power Mentalities (House of Power and Abilities)
• Demigod normally, rises to Lesser God and Intermediate God as he draws upon the Dark Elf's power
• Symbol: The Dark Elf behind his rapier
• Theme Song: Combustion when he's himself, Supreme Ruler after using Dark Elf's power, and The Last The Wish Punished when he loses control
• Alignment: True Neutral currently, used to be Chaotic Neutral (gravitates to Chaotic Evil when overwhelmed by power)
• Portfolio: Dark Messiah, Getting Eviler And Crazier The More Powerful He Becomes, Wearing white and gold, Face–Heel Turn due to Survivor Guilt, Hates Humans To The Point He Considers Destroying them Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds, Laser Blade, Royal Rapier, Painful Transformation into a Clipped-Wing Angel, Earns The Loyalty Of His Troops, A rather decent guy who saw things he wasn't supposed to, Well-Intentioned Extremist, Heel Realization, Becoming a Cyber-Elf After His Defeat
• Domains: Power, Madness, Robots, Rebellion, Pride and Insecurity, Vengeance
• Complicated relationship with: Ciel, Zero
• Allies: Lucifer, Sunset Shimmer, Viridi, Ika Musume, Homura Akemi, Simon Petrikov/the Ice King, Lelouch vi Britannia
• Teeth-Clenched Teamwork with: Zero, Axl, X, Mega Man, many human-based deities, The Rebel Alliance
• Enemies
  • From the same time and place: Copy X, the Four Guardians, especially Sage Harpuia, Dr. Weil, Omega
  • Other enemies: Lysandre, YHVH, government conspiracies like the Illuminati and especially the Five Elders, oppressive governments like The Galactic Empire, The Imperium of Mankind and honestly anyone in the Hall of Tyrannical Figures (notably Arcturus Mengsk),
  • Evil Counterparts (in his opinion): Sigma, Griffith, Infinite, Kefka Palazzo
• Respects: Sayaka Miki, Madoka Kaname
• Wary of: Larfleeze, anything in Maximum Security
• Elpizo was once a simple Reploid living in Neo Arcadia who uncovered things about the Elf Wars that were forbidden. Soon he found himself a fugitive, and eventually leader of the Resistance against Neo Arcadia. Charming yet prideful, he ordered a full assault on Neo Arcadia after Copy X's death, thinking it was defenseless...only for them to be destroyed by the Guardians and he was stomped by Sage Harpuia. Enraged by the loss of his men, he would search for the Dark Elf in spite of its corruptive influence...and we all know what the road to hell is like. He'd grow Drunk with Power and lose himself merging with the Dark Elf, swearing to destroy mankind to protect Reploids. Eventually he was defeated by Zero, regaining lucidity before his death...but he wouldn't be gone completely. The repressed goodness of the Dark Elf would give him a second chance, as a Cyber-Elf.
• It was an...awkward moment when Elpizo first came into contact with X, Zero and Axl after his ascension, due to the whole... destroying X's body and gloating over it back in the mortal realms, for which he profusely apologized. X seemed to understand as he knew Elps wasn't exactly in the right state of mind when it happened, Zero accepted the apology but told him he'd keep an eye on him from now on, and Axl decked him in the face for what he did to his friend, but admitted he'd try to give him another chance. Even so, Elpizo is extremely uncomfortable around all of them, and often opposes them as he starts losing sanity again. Harpuia, on the other hand, he still has a beef with, and vice-versa, due to both that event and Harpuia's role in Elpizo's Operation Righteous Strike. They don't plan on making up anytime soon.
• Elpizo was pleasantly surprised to learn that his "apotheosis with a little a" had him regain his physical form, as he was before searching for the Dark Elf. He wasn't sure if he should look into the Hall of Humanoids, Fantastic Races or Fairies since he was concerned she may have wondered off there, only to be informed that they're not that kind of elf. Elpizo was surprised to learn magic and fantasy creatures existed, and that while made of metal that doesn't include anything that'd hurt a fey...that was nice. So was the fact everyone refers to him as Elpizo and not his "birth" name of TK-31. He's not so pleased that he has the title of god though, as his ego can't afford to be inflated. Coincidentally, the 10th Doctor was in his line of sight after making that comment and has said that he gets concern; acknowledging he has a problem is the first step in overcoming it.
• Elpizo is an interesting character thanks to his title. It seems that anytime he absorbs power into himself, the increase is swiftly followed by a decrease in mental stability. He's been working hard to try and find a proper balance between the two states, as he learned the hard way that unlimited power is pretty useless when you're not lucid enough to channel it properly. In fact, most every time he manages to power up to the maximum, it's usually followed by his opponent kicking his ass all over the place, especially if his enemy has high defenses. As the allure of power is corrupting to him, Elpizo has profusely apologized to Ciel before saying "you must never let me get near the Maximum Security wing of the treasury; I haven't proven myself worth of temperance yet". Elpizo is similarly wary of Larfleeze, or rather his Orange Lantern ring; his desires would make him a potential "deputy" Orange Lantern, were Larfleeze to break character and share for once. He, of course, would never...and seeing the ring's effect on him gives a good reason for Elpizo to accept that.
• Was absolutely livid to learn that Copy X was also within the Pantheon. He immediately powered up and went to kill him, only to fail. He has since been preparing himself for a rematch. When he learned that Dr. Weil and Omega were the ones behind the Crapsack World he lived in, he immediately added them to his 'kill list' as well. His hatred of Copy X is why he hates YHVH due to their similar goals and worldviews. Elpizo has a huge dislike of any tyrannical government, which is why he seeks to support the Rebel Alliance. He's definitely one of their more anti-heroic supporters, but anyone who knows about Saw Gerrera knows they are not without their extremists. Since droids generally aren't respected by the Galaxy far away his support for the Rebel Alliance is more on their core ideals and principles, rather than him liking any of their members. To an extent, this is true on their end; if he could access the Force, the Dark Side would see an easy target.
• As far as Elpizo is concerned, the Imperium of Mankind is no less evil than the Galactic Empire, which is something they resent. Of course it's not like the Reploid doesn't have a point; the Imperium benefits from being A Lighter Shade of Black, but their galaxy is still one of Evil Versus Evil. However after yelling about him being an abominable intelligence who's ilk brought an end to the Age of Technology (look up "Men of Iron") he is an extremist in his own right. Elpizo possesses a specific hatred for government conspiracies such as what initially screwed him over; the attempt to eliminate anyone who might undo the Un-person of Dr Weil, given he's so vile and did so much harm they couldn't allow the chance someone would repeat his actions. Big reason why he hates the Five Elders since they are willing to commit genocide to prevent any of the government's darkest secrets coming to light. The rebel's paranoia has only been enhanced after learning about Illuminati conspiracies.
• He has cast his lot in with Lucifer, who is glad to have such a potential trump card in his arsenal. It was during this time he learned of Homura Akemi and what she did to her best friend Madoka. Despite being human, Elpizo sympathized with both of them: The later sacrificed herself to save all Mahou Shoujo (much like he desired to save the Reploid race), and the former wanted to keep her best friend safe and sound even if it meant becoming a monster (which ultimately happened to him in his quest). As such, he feels kinship with Homura, though there is some tension due to their stance on human life: Homura's reluctance to take it unless absolutely necessary conflicts with his own total willingness if it's convenient. All of this worries Ciel as he believes he risks falling into old habits siding with chaos.
• Due to being unjustly branded as a Maverick and his exposure to human prejudice, he doesn't hold a very high opinion of most any human-based deity. As such, he's become acquainted with both Viridi and Ika Musume over their respective dislikes of humans, though like them he draws the line at annihilating everything, like Lysandre desires. However, there are a few who have his respect. Sayaka Miki is a particular example, due to her falling into insanity out of grief and self-loathing while gaining greater power much like himself, only to eventually rise again even stronger than before. Of course, given their positions on the subject of Lucifer, that doesn't mean he won't fight her if necessary. Also, he doesn't look fondly of his prior homicidal tendencies towards humans. One of the reasons he dreads Sigma is that Sigma is a less idealistic and more hypocritical version of himself. The Maverick considers his Hazy-Feel Turn a disappointment, as he had the perfect makings of a Maverick.
• Has struck up a friendly rapport with Sunset Shimmer, as both know what it feels like to gain incredible power and subsequently lose their minds to it. She's been trying to get him to be more accepting of peaceful human co-existence like she herself has, but it's a slow process. Still, Elpizo has made some human friends. He and Simon Petrikov bonded over the corruption power caused their minds, with Elpizo showing him genuine sympathy after realizing the Ice King was a worse fate for the antiquarian than what the Reploid suffered, and basically by sheer accident instead of greed and foolishness. Lelouch is another human Elpizo excludes from his critique as he sees a fellow troubled rebel fighting against tyranny.
• Elpizo may be working with some deities that the more straight up good guys of his era disapprove of, but he does want to take steps to not fall into He Who Fights Monsters territory...again. One of the methods he's used is to deem certain deities as his evil counterparts. As mentioned, there's Sigma and many agree due to the parallels he had when he was Drunk with Power. Personally Elpizo sees contrasts between himself, Griffith, Infinite and Kefka Palazzao. Kefka is a nutcase in large part to being part of a Magitek experiment, but chooses to embrace power along with being as psychotic and Ax-Crazy as he can be, and he finds the Reploid's reluctance and morality as laughable. Infinite sought greater power after being humiliated, however unlike Elpizo he never gave a damn about those who worked for him and he's a spiteful little tool. And of course there's Griffith, the charismatic pretty boy who had his big Break the Haughty moment, and gained great power...but by betraying his men in the worst way possible.
• Unlike Elpizo, the three have no regrets or second thoughts on their actions, and find Elpizo using them as a contrast a waste of time. Griffith believes that Elpizo has more in common with Arcturus Mengsk, what with his Full-Circle Revolution. Elpizo countered by saying that he didn't complete the full circle in the revolution.

We're all in the same ship / Floating towards the Hall of Shapeshifters.

With the rule against too obscure mythological figures I legit wonder if anyone from Deity Identity Confusion would be allowed

I'm no pro here but that trope at the very least sounds like the definition of an oxymoron in this case. I think.

I believe that trope can work if it involves completely made up deities in a work.

Alright, time to get some thoughts out of the way...

Why I disapproved of Balor and Sedna? While I stated that this is because I felt that they were too obscure, it's also because I personally don't think they have a strong enough presence in pop culture and because I think defaulting to myth-based gods for god tropes in the case of Balor honestly feels like a lazy choice when there's a decent selection of purely fictitious gods to choose from. I don't mind myth gods in the Pantheon and I'm open to seeing some of them in, but as I said, this is provided they do have decent representation in media beyond just their own myths. Much like with Senda and Deadly Gaze, I also think that trope could have a decent number of candidates to consider and it doesn't have to be a literal god.

Keep in mind that I'm not entirely opposed to mythology-based deities getting into the Pantheon. However, there comes a point where you're just suggesting and ascending myth gods just for the sake of it, to the detriment of other, potentially more interesting ideas and that's what I'm more uncomfortable about. And yes, the same thing also applies to works like Pokémon and Mega Man where a number of deities from the old days represented their tropes for rather superficial reasons and said tropes could have been given to far better suggestions.

Paragus can honestly be deleted and Dies Differently in Adaptation should be given to a character whose death in a latter adaptation has weight in addition to being shown differently, as seen with Faso's choice. And even if Adaptational Nice Guy was free, I would have given him a on the grounds that the "Nice Guy" aspect doesn't mean much when Paragus is still a piece of shit who mistreats Broly and never really gets over his embitterment and "Saiyans are the ultimate race!" mentality. I am a fan of Dragon Ball and I intend to rework Goku on Christmas time, so I'm up to date with my knowledge.

And speaking of Adaptational Nice Guy, I'm not particularly keen on Barty Crouch either as I partly think his profile is underdeveloped and he seems like a lazy choice, given how he doesn't really have much going for the series and his only real impact occurs after he's killed off. So I have no objections about him getting deleted, should someone find a more appealing/stronger example for Adaptational Nice Guy.

@Puzzarian — While I understand you're a Touhou enthusiast, I recommend that you also look into other works and franchises to put your efforts towards. What you've done with reworking old Touhou profiles is admirable and worthy of praise, but it could also lead to pandering and overspecialization that would likely get others to become annoyed with your content if Touhou keeps taking top precedence in your workload.

Don't take this as me telling you to stop working on Touhou, but you should be able to recognize that maybe you've spent too much time with a particular franchise or medium and put some focus on other works. Finally, use the Pantheon (and by extension TvT) as a motivation to try out other works as a way to inspire yourself with new Pantheon ideas.

Finally, here's a for Hecatia, but a for Doremy as Wootz does raise a good concern about having a better candidate. Got nothing to say about Sagune though.

I mentioned "old days", right? There was a cutlist that was done back in September 2020 where I spoke about how a lot of old Pokemon profiles were very outdated and were better off deleted for a number of reasons. Here's a link. And yes, this was discussed, even if some disagreements occurred during said cutlist.

Edited by CrimsonShark on Jun 5th 2023 at 1:12:41 PM

Could you give some specific examples? I want to see if we could rework or replace them.

One of my main inspirations for to work on Touhou was mainly the February 2021 cutlist, in which the entire series was basically left alone for 2 whole years afterward; in fact, I first showed up here just before the 2 year anniversary for it (mid/late January 2023) and began my rapid ascension process around or after that time. That amount of “damage” (imo) is staggering, and back then and up to now, I’ve been a passionate fan of the series and want to contribute in my own way. So when I learned of said cutlist, I knew restoring as much of it as I could (if not just outright all of it) was gonna be one of my goals here. Yes, that would lead to me overspecializing in Touhou, but hey, I’d rather be known for something like that rather than nothing at all.

And yeah, the votes for the trio I proposed earlier are understandable; again, I will be working on Hecatia & Sagume soon, but I will leave Doremy alone for now, and she’ll remain as Sumireko’s herald.

Edited by PuzzarianIdeal on Jun 5th 2023 at 6:31:58 AM

You know, just as I mentioned the Souls player characters, I just realized that Dark Souls as a whole only has a few profiles before it is technically finished (Nameless King, Solaire, Crossbreed Priscilla, Gwyn, Nito and the aformentioned player character merged profile rework). Since the potential news of Elden Ring's expansion release is coming, I'd like to drop a few ideas of my own (however, bear in mind that this doesn't dissuade the fact that there might be a potential second expansion which may delay the hype down, this has happened with another game I am interested in doing: Atomic Heart where Mundfish announced a DLC around April, hence me forcing to delay the ideas of Dmitri Sechenov and P-3).

Keep in mind that these aren't the only Elden Ring ideas I have, in particular I only have around 10 (including these three ideas that have been floating on my head for a long while, you can make your guesses if you wish) but I'd wait till the cards are dropped till I start bringing them in effect. I don't want people to assume that Elden Ring will become the next Undertale in the forum.

• The Tarnished for Death as Game Mechanic or Late to the Tragedy. The beginning of the player character's introduction to Elden Ring is a story detailing the fate of The Lands Between, a land broken by a civil-war called the Shattering that left the land in a state of ruin. As the main driving force, you are introduced too late to participate in the events and are then thrusted into the setting to mend the Elden Ring and restore order, or take a different approach (which uses the Late to the Tragedy idea). In true FromSoftware fashion, the game's difficulty thus makes death a game mechanic to many portions of the game, whether it be various status ailments, conditions for certain paths in the game and other mechanics that makes death a normal occurrence (hence the Death as Game Mechanic idea).

• Godfrey for Fantasy Counterpart Myth. The very first Elden Lord, Godfrey is seen as a king with a love for battle, so much that he was possibly exiled by Queen Marika due to his bloodlust being incompatible with the Greater Will's desire for order. Before he was a Lord, he was a Tarnished by the name of Hoarah Loux, a warrior with a penchant for battle where legends describe him as a lowly human who rose to godhood through painful trails and brutally killed monsters with ease, destined to usher an era of peace before being exiled. The descriptions for him match the human-made legend of Hercules with Frey, both from his perceived actions and his stature in the game's near finale.

• Malenia for Superboss. In the lore, Malenia was the demigoddess that was touted as one of the greatest warriors in the Shattering. Her warpath lead to a bloody crusade that killed and devastated many leading to the half-broken state of The Lands Between, until she was forced into a tie by Radahn by the end of the civil war. In the game, she is the last possible boss you can take on but it is on one of the highest-level gated areas in the game, the Haligtree, where her stats and moveset shows how she is the true last boss one can defeat. She has high damage, a fast moveset, a surprisingly beefy health for a human-type boss and has one of the most dangerous second-phases in the game. The only reward you can gain from her boss fight is her Great Rune and her Remembrance but these items are only useful at the very last boss and can't be used in New Game+.

Edited by HamanaHamanaHamana on Jun 6th 2023 at 1:35:58 AM

Wouldn't it be better to give the entire Pantheon of Elden Ring for that trope?

Edited by WhirlRX on Jun 5th 2023 at 3:08:29 PM

A bit of a heads-up, but I did add The Tarnished and Godfrey as potential ideas a couple of days back. I even have the former for Late to the Tragedy, the same trope as yours, though I was thinking about Super-Strength for the latter, even if it means deleting the current holder. I should also note that I have Morgott and Ranni penned as potential ideas for Broken-System Dogmatist and Romance Sidequest respectively. And for curiosity's sake, yes, I am playing Elden Ring, which is a pretty good game, as far as I can tell.

Finally, I did check to see if anyone held any ideas from the game when I wrote down my ideas in my sandbox via the related tab and I don't think your sandbox turned up. The only one with an Elden Ring idea came from RJ, who penned the Dung Eater for Wants to Be Hated.

BTW, I'm aware of Shadow of the Erdtree, so I made sure that I mentioned those in my suggestions list in my sandbox and thus far, I'm not in a rush for Elden Ring ideas, even if I somehow beat the game in the next 5-10 days.

I dunno, to be honest. The demigods in the setting do seem autonomous and independent enough from each other, even enforced if you ask me, so I don't really see them being compiled for a group profile unless one could make a really good point about it.

Edited by CrimsonShark on Jun 5th 2023 at 7:08:28 PM

Second the idea of having the gods of Elden Ring share a profile. Personally, I had the idea of ascending them all under Alliterative Family, as the entire group can trace their heritage using Gs (Godfrey and his children Godwyn, Godrick, and Godefroy), Rs (Radagon, Rennala, and their children: Radahn, Ranni, and Rykard), and Ms (Marika and her two sets of twins: Miquella/Malenia and Morgott/Mohg, her half-brother Maliketh, and Marika's miscellaneous daughters [such as Millicent]. Fantasy Counterpart Myth works as well, though.

Edited by Shinobi on Jun 5th 2023 at 11:28:49 AM