Trope Pantheons Discussion

@ Golgo 13: Being an assassin for hire, he might have something to say about Agent 47. Also, what would he think of the Sniper/Mr. Mundy?

Alright guys, just letting you all know that after months of planning and work, the Mon Partnerships page is finally finished and functional. From now on, whatever new partnership will be on this page.

This also brings me to something I would like to stress out and I believe this could be a rule. For any Mon ascended into the Pantheon, if they happen to have a partnership, I strongly urge you to write down their connection and relationship in that page and in good detail. The primary reason is that I do not want another situation of someone having to go through a large series of unfilled or barely explained connections between a Mon and its partner. That way, things in the Pantheon can be less stressful if they're done quicker.

Lastly, I would like to express my thanks to anybody who helped me out in filling out some connections and elaborating on them. Here's a (virtual) cookie.

ONLY REAL COOKIES!

Thanks for the cookie.

Hmm, I wonder if the Rozen Maidens (Suigintou, Suiseiseki and Souseiseki) would be listed there. Not really a Mon thing, but the dolls need to have a master to provide them with magic power to operate).

Edited by TPPR10 on Dec 6th 2020 at 5:47:45 PM

First draft of these two. What should I add?

Donna Hinckley Stacy Troy, Goddess of Convoluted Continuity (The first Wonder Girl, Troia, Wonder Woman IV)

• House: Adaptations and Continuity (House of Narrative)
• Intermediate Goddess
• Symbol: A collection of her superhero outfits
• Alignment: Neutral Good (Neutral Evil during her recent brainwashing)
• Portfolio: Started Off As A Teenage Wonder Woman, Boobs Of Steel, Sidekick Graduations Stick, A Mess Of Continuity To The Point Of Having Its Own Page, Multiple-Choice Past as a consequence, Flying Brick, Consummate Resurrectees, Her Ex-Husband And Son Were Killed In A Car Crash, typically the Team Mom and Warrior Princess yet Parental Neglect, Optimism In Spite Of Tragedy
• Domains: Continuity (and the inevitable mess), Amazonians, Superheroines
• Interests: Grandfather Paradox
• Allies: Most ascended DC Comics superheroes, mainly Diana/Wonder Woman (complicated, but they see each other as sisters), Kyle Rayner (her ex) and the Teen Titans, Rose Tyler, George, The Doctor
• On good terms with: the House of Friendship, Lars Fillmore
• On speaking terms with: Linkara
• Teeth-Clenched Teamwork with: Heracles
• Enemies: The DC Comics supervillains (mainly Barbara Ann Minerva and Nekron, Black Hand), The Hounds Of Tindalos, The Divine Powers, Cronus, Funny Valentine, Dhuum
  • Former enemy Kratos
• Opposes the Mind Control sub-house
• Wary of: Beerus, Ammit
• Continuity is a funny thing; add retcons, an shared universe and what can start off as simple can lead to a tangled mess of timelines and histories. Just ask Donna Troy. Who is Donna Troy? She, or rather her old identity of Wonder Girl started as a teen version of Wonder Woman, in the same vein as Superboy. But team-ups with Wonder Woman, showing up in the Titans, some even forgetting the whole "younger self thing"...go here if you want an idea AND a headache.
• Her ascension was suggested by both Diana and, interestingly enough, Linkara. He wanted the opportunity to try and work with her on solving the Continuity Snarl that is her very existence. Plus, he's a fan of her and a big fan of the Teen Titans. Something consistent across Donna Troy's timeline is that she's the Team Mom of the Teen Titans, which is why she's on good terms with the House of Friendship.
• Actually being a parent, however, was a different thing. Her husband divorced her over not having enough time for them, and sadly her son and him were killed in a car crash. She has had a lot of tragedy, but never lets her show it. It's been suggested that she spend more time in the House of Family due to the fallout of all this. Rose sympathizes with her tragedy, as her father was killed in a car accident.
• Whatever the background, she is almost always depicted as a sister to Wonder Woman. Molded from clay like her, being an orphan, they're sisters. And while once a sidekick, she has long since been a superheroine in her own right. Because of her metafictional origins as a teen Diana, she's somewhat chummy with Lars Fillmore, who is literally a version of another person who splintered off because of timeline shenanigans. He's rather laid back and can relate to some of her heartbreak.
• The House of Time And Space attempted to unravel a clear, concise truth. The closest they got to the question of "Who is Donna Troy" is that she is the amalgamation of her alternate selves from the Pre-Crisis multiverse, with the Continuity Snarl being a glitch of sorts in the Post-Crisis multiverse...probably. They concluded they should probably avoid Funny Valentine, for potentially what his Stand could do. She doesn't like him anyway, due to being an American imperialist.
• Because of her complicated state in the space-time continuum, the Hounds of Tindalos despise her. Other deities are more helpful. Besides Linkara, the Doctor also wants to her her with her mess of a timeline. George can totally relate to her, as he's seen quite a convoluted mess from time travel. Grandfather Paradox agreed, but that's exactly what he strives for and is interested in Donna Troy. Some think he is to blame, and while he's not claiming that he does seek to make her timeline even more convoluted.
• A consummate cheater of death, which has given her the enmity of Dhuum. One notable death involved her being reborn as an actual Teen Titan...except not really. Note that Cronus was not part of the Titans of Myth that pulled that stun off; he was already indisposed and a villain to both Diana and Donna. However it is thought that, were in not for death being even cheaper in the Trope Pantheon, Ammit and Beerus' Hakai would end her forever. Donna Troy's in no rush to test that.
• The Titans of Myth used her as part of their plan to escape the universe because they predicted it was about to end. The Divine Powers are interested in her for similar purposes, mainly as a means to an end for their whole "recreate the universe without the Forever War of Order Versus Chaos" plan. Thematically they share in common things with the Titans of Myth. Enough that Donna Troy knows to be on alert with them.
• Doesn't like most DC supervillains, but besides the Cheetah she has special contempt for Nekron and Black Hand. As far as Nekron's avatar is concerned, her baby deserved to die because he was sired after she already experienced death. Nekron has disdain for all life, but especially those who cheat death. Donna Troy hates the Lord of the Unliving for forcing her to confront the zombie version of her ex-husband and baby, the latter bit her and slowly turned her into a Black Lantern. And she was quick to point out his utter hypocrisy in decrying resurrections when he himself permitted some to function as sleeper agents.
• Like Wonder Woman, Donna Troy was rather apprehensive about Kratos and everyone knows why. But nowadays he's mellowed out, so they're down to "not trusting each other". Kratos sympathizes with the fact that she lost his son, since he was tricked into killing his wife and daughter beyond his control. And like Wonder Woman she has difficulty working with Heracles, as while usually a heroic figure the DC incarnation is a darker individual.
• It was thought with the New 52 she was in fact an Evil Doppelgänger and misandrist made to infiltrate Wonder Woman. Except this was again a case of Fake Memories, and she was Brainwashed and Crazy. Again. She's really getting sick of it and doesn't like the fact there is even a Mind Control sub-house in the pantheon.

Equinox, God of The Inability To Understand Moral Absolutes (Equinox Prime, Equinox's Hatred)

^{Click here}  for Equinox Prime

• House: Values and Ethics (House of Philosophy)
• Intermediate God (Greater God in his hatred aspect, Overdeity as Equinox Prime)
• Symbol: A yin-yang symbol with a yellow and black dot
• Alignment: Stupid Neutral, before devolving into Omnicidal Neutral (Chaotic Evil for his Hatred)
• Portfolio: Unique To The Show But Is Similar To Libra, Illogical Enforcement Of the Balance of Good and Evil (Well, Order And Chaos As He Sees It), Knight of Cerebus, Grey-and-Gray Insanity, Kung-Fu Wizard, Wields Order And Chaos Magic And Is Driven Mad By It, becomes an Omnicidal Maniac, Shatters Realizing He Isn't Balanced, Fragmented Into 12 Aspects
• Domains: Order And Chaos, Balance and Imbalance, Madness, Good And Evil
• High Priest: Horseshoe Centrist
• Interests: Chakravartin, Darkseid
• Interested in: The House of Ambiguity, Aesir, Loki and Loptr
• Allies: The Divine Powers, Mithra
  • Specific to his Hatred: SKYNET, Lysandre
• Teeth-Clenched Teamwork with: The Anti-Spiral
• Rivals: Fused Zamasu, The Father of the Ones, Izanami, The Auditors of Reality, Kreia
  • Friendly Rivalry with: Cyrus (Pokemon), Clu
• On good terms with: Kyurem
• Enemies: BRUCE WAYNE/BATMAN, Nabu, YHVH and Lucifer, Nerose Satanel, Eliphas and Don Thousand, Ahura Mazda
  • Specific to his Hatred: John Connor
  • One sided on their part: The Grand United Alliance of Law and Grand United Alliance of Chaos, Stephen, Beerus and Shin
  • Sympathy for the Devil from and/or Friendly Enemy with: The Sister of the Ones, The Living Tribunal, The Alpha and Omega, The Unconquered Sun, Gowasu
• Enemy Mine with: Angra Mainyu and The Ebon Dragon
• Opposes: Those who threaten the balance of good and evil, or order and chaos (in his own insane view), Shinn Asuka
• Opposed by: The Grand United Alliance of Good and Grand United Alliance of Evil, order, good, evil and chaos divinities (though Cosmos does feel a bit sorry for him)
• Pities: The Avenger version of Angra Mainyu
• Good, evil. Order, chaos. The Lords of Order and Chaos adopted an orphan to serve as a balancer. However the pressure of the job resulted in a skewed and irrational take; trying to execute a villain as his plans to rule the world would have disrupted the balance, whilst also executing the hero who tried to stop him. Trying to ensure another villain succeeds in causing a nuclear meltdown in a Russian city, because the villain's own village was destroyed many years earlier. The obsession with balance and inability to deal with moral absolutes led him to go mad, and tried to Restart the World until it was pointed out by Batman he was not in perfect balance, eventually leading to his defeat.
• Thought dead, Equinox was in fact fractured into 12 aspects of his personality. His hatred aspect pulled a SKYNET, becoming an evil supercomputer who tried to use time travel to remove his foes and Batman from the timeline. This aspect remains fragmented from the other eleven, due to being deemed "the source of imbalance" by the full Equinox. He's too busy being a thorn in John Connor's side and helping SKYNET to be a help for the rest.
• Equinox's Hatred chooses not to re-unite with the other 11/12ths of his being, and has found his own differing view of balance; the world of beauty that Lysandre desires. Most see this as a positive sign for Equinox; his Omnicidal Maniac tendencies may be mostly purged and part of his hatred know. The regular Equinox in turn considers a potential alliance with the Anti-Spiral to keep balance and avoid the Spiral Nemesis. However he believes some Spiral energy is necessary, which is a hindrance for the Anti-Spiral's views on Spiral life-forms. But at least it's a start.
  • Neither side likes Shinn Asuka for representing Black-and-White Insanity, as their ideologies are polar opposites.
• In the pantheon Equinox is more or less in his base state, but missing the 1/12th that is his hatred. Many wonder just who put him back together, and eyes were on Darkseid. Equinox was puzzled why the platonic ideal of tyranny was having fingers pointed at his resurrection, and the Lord of Apokolips explains it's because he is very similar to his disciple and harbinger for his true form's arrival, Libra. And though more dedicated to balance, Equinox's delusions may have use for the New God.
• Equinox was in search of answers as to why he was almost complete, so he sought the forces of order and chaos. What imbalanced him was an anger towards the Lords of Order and Chaos, and a different anger was directed to the pantheon's representations of it; YHVH and Lucifer. He justifies his contempt with the belief that, for true balance, someone like himself must take charge of the GUAL and GUAC. They laugh at the idea of them of all alliances aligning and find him to be a supremely deranged pest. Rather than being enraged, Equinox believes that he must focus himself on becoming more internally balanced.
• The search for who resurrected him led him to the true culprit; Mithra. Mithra's Law defines beings into "good" or "evil", which led to a Forever War until one of the "good" defected and destroyed both sides, beginning the cosmos again as the Second Hadou God Muzan. She wants Equinox to serve as her knight to preserve her system. Equinox believes that the eternal, consistent state of "good vs evil" might actually work to balance things.
• In order to remove one of her rivals, Mithra has convinced Equinox that Nerose Satanel is a threat to the balance of order and chaos. As the 3rd Hadou God is perceived as an enemy to Equinox, though not a serious one on Nerose's end. As he enforces a cosmos of good and order, preventing evil and chaos from physically existing, Mithra is pretty much spot on despite her manipulating Equinox.
• Comparable to the even more deranged Zamasu, who is dedicated to his own mission even more zealously than Equinox. However while Equinox can't understand moral absolutes, Zamasu fails to comprehend moral relativism. They both wish to Restart the World, but have very different means of accomplishing it. However while Equinox is a mortal, a small part of Zamasu can't help but see a bit of himself in Equinox and that's close enough he can manage for empathy.
• The Auditors of Reality believe that true balance is a silent world without any complicated organisms, however Equinox doesn't believe simplicity is a force of balance. It can help, he'll at least admit. Kreia argues that balance would require the removal of the cosmic forces, and that they cannot find unity. The Father of the Ones disagrees with this, and Equinox agrees with him. However, he believes he'd be a superior balancer between his children. Then there is Izanami, who like Equinox has a skewed view on what needs to happen for humanity's betterment. Though she is of a different moral code, while Equinox is more Stupid Neutral than anything.
• Cyrus, by comparison, is a rival with far more fondness for Equinox. He wants to make a balanced universe, however he believes to achieve it you must remove spirit. Equinox disagrees as the chaos of spirit is necessary to balance order, while Cyrus counter-argues by saying order is balance. Clu is another friendly rival, as both him and Equinox are motivated by an idealism that is impossible to reach.
• The Divine Powers are one of the few allies that Equinox has. He wanted Stephen to help him first, given he represents the Neutral Path, however he regards him as too incompetent to aid his quest. They promised him a new world of order, free of the current forces of law and chaos. They've convinced him that such concepts will exist, but manageable and he can do his job properly. As far as he's concerned, the Divine Powers have his best interests in mind.
• Chakravartin believes that Equinox might be a useful tool for his larger ambitions, potentially even a replacement heir for what he hoped Asura would achieve. For what it's worth, Equinox has an interest in the House of Ambiguity, regarding it as the perfect centerpiece for a world of balance between good/evil and order/chaos. He was pleasantly surprised to learn of Aesir; he is a God of Chaos, yet while one side is a spirit of positive chaos the other is an evil tyrant. In other words, Aesir is balanced in Equinox's skewed worldview. He wants to see him replace Lucifer as the head of the GUAC if he himself cannot take it over.
• A regular pest for both the GUAG and GUAE as his ideas of balance are irrational. As far as he's concerned the two should be on equal footing, and cannot comprehend why one should be supreme over the other. They laugh off any argument of an Enemy Mine. In his madness Equinox has gone so far as to aid Angra Mainyu and the Ebon Dragon. It's very clear he doesn't like them, so why is he helping them?
  Equinox: "By their own nature they are doomed to fail, leading to good having an unfair advantage. By boosting them up evil can become equal to good. However the moment evil is superior to good, I will aid Ahura Mazda and the Unconquered Sun. A better form of balance for the pantheon".
• Ahura Mazda was appalled by this sheer idiocy, having choice words of his own to deflate Equinox.
  Ahura Mazda: "I admit, I am not well-versed in moral grayness, but that doesn't mean you're ideology is coherent. You obsess over balance, but some things should not be balanced. Good should be superior to evil. Evil is by its own nature an imbalance, a perversion of the natural order. They do not seem equal forces because they should be, but because I and Angra Mainyu are equal in power. Evil is wrong, pure and simple, and your failure to see it like that will be your ultimate undoing. Please, know what is balanced before enforcing it."
• Cosmos and Melkor regard Equinox as a thorn in their side, however given her own long and tired history with Chaos she at least pities his position and delusions. Generally, if Equinox doesn't consider order/chaos or good/evil divinities a threat to his perceived balance and in need of some control, they consider him a delusional idiot who gets in the way of their goals. However the Unconquered Sun, who teeters on the edge of madness and burnout to fulfill all virtues, pities his situation. And Equinox feels bad for the Sister of the Ones for her eternal struggle, even if he believes she's not doing her job optimally.
• Beerus and Shin laugh off Equniox's insane views of balance, however he believes they have zero room to talk. Gowasu is more pitiable, as he was with Zamasu, but still will call out what he's doing as madness. Interestingly despite being in opposition to his goals, the Living Tribunal and The Alpha and Omega are somewhat sympathetic towards him. The latter knows the stresses of running reality. The former has to keep the balance on a multiversal scale and can't act unless all three heads are in agreement. He regards Equinox as a misguided soul.
• Equinox has a lot of pity for the Avenger version of Angra Mainyu. Worse than Equinox being taken as an orphan for the sake of balance and breaking under the strain, he was tortured into being the scapegoat incarnation of evil. He's also rather chill with Kyurem, given the dragon is a form of neutrality resulting from division between two warring ideologies tearing the original dragon of Unova into three.

Better make sure Donna doesn't get near any electrical wires.

Equinox would hate Chaos. In the Sailor Moon Manga, both light and darkness have to exist. Chaos, the source of darkness, wants to destroy everything and return all to nothing, which would disrupt the balance between the two.

Edited by SailorVenus372 on Dec 6th 2020 at 9:05:04 AM

Well, given the amount of crap Donna went through, I'm pretty sure she would come to be allies with those who remain optimistic in spite of their hardships and struggles, like All-Might, Yuna and Simon.

Also, given she has parental issues, maybe a relationship with the Mothers Sub-House where she could be sympathised by the numerous mother's there. Maisie Farange and Atreus are two children who went through Parental Neglect, the former for having petty and insecure biological parents and the latter via Kratos usually being a very quiet and distant man in general.

Edited by CrimsonShark on Dec 6th 2020 at 5:13:47 PM

It has come to my attention that the allegations of child grooming towards Pyrocynical have been confirmed as true. If that is the case, then may I vouch for the profile deletion as it is not clear that this will turn into a controversy, which we have tried to avoid countless times. And while on the subject, I'd like to point the elephant in the room who was responsible for the ascension of such figure: Fasoman 1996.

Faso, it has become clear that with this ascension and the last controversial figure you managed to ascend (Ethan and Hila Klein) before you deleted them, you have become rather complacent in your duties as the "admin" of the Pantheons. How many times did we have to warn about controversial figures until one is brought up and confirmed of such crimes? This is your second time ascending someone and I am pretty sure that third chances do not exist in such case. You arrogantly ignored my post before about controversy only for the e-celeb that you brought up to be confirmed of such crimes. It seems that you did not heed my warning and ended up bringing a literal child groomer within the Pantheons. This is not counting the fact that you got away from ascending numerous characters of the same franchise (Hearthstone, Overwatch, Crash Bandicoot), of which was also a major complaint towards other tropers, in particular, clovis.

It is time I put my boot into the ground and repeat this: you have failed in not only avoiding controversy but as a respectable leader of the Pantheons. We should do this immediately and I recommend not only deleting Pyrocynical's profile but creating a rule that rules out the possibilities of bringing an e-celeb into the Pantheon. This should also be a warning to the other troper responsible for bringing another e-celeb in this project: M1gami Tensei

End of post

Edited by HamanaHamanaHamana on Dec 7th 2020 at 2:21:29 AM

I'm aware of the controversy. I admit that maybe i fucked up by not bringing it up and no, we are not banning e-celebs just because of a few bad apples

Seconded.

May I remind you that you are not without faults either, as are the rest of us. Before we progress this, I'd like to see your sources of proof that the Pyrocynical allegations are true. Official police statements, official unbiased news site that announce a conviction, etc.

Edited by SuperWIKI1 on Dec 7th 2020 at 1:59:57 AM

@ RJ: One of the Warframes usable by The Tenno is Equinox, a Warframe themed around the duality between the power of day and night that can actively switch between forms based on the two.

@Hamana Mind if I ask, but what is your definition of an eceleb? Are all online personalities fall under this jurisdiction you made?

Edited by M1gamiTensei on Dec 6th 2020 at 10:07:43 AM

Day 1 for these two. I have implemented ideas from Crownless and Donnietu.

En Route to Ascension

s: 4 (CrimsonShark, Excessive-Menace, CrownlessMimic, VengefulBale)

Pacifica Elise Northwest, Goddess of Reformed Bullies

• Returning to: Character Changes
• Quasideity
• Symbol: A llama... don't ask.
• Alignment: Neutral Good (was pressured to be Neutral Evil)
• Portfolio: A haughty girl of wealth until she became otherwise, Breakout Character, Has really bad parents who care little about what she actually thinks and her ancestors are no better, Forced to obey at a ring of the bell giving her insecurity issues, Redeems her family's honour by letting the common folk in, Associated with llamas, Defrosting Ice Queen, There is more to her than on the surface, Name is a pun of the Pacific Northwest region
• Domains: Wealth, Pride, Family, Youth
• Heralds: Preston and Priscilla Northwest (her parents)
• High Priestess: Diamond Tiara
• Followers: Gus Matthews, Gideon Grey, Groose, Harley Keiner
• Allies: Dipper and Mabel Pines, Stan Pines, Naruto and Boruto Uzumaki, Hinata Hyuga, Seto Kaiba, Bruce Wayne/Batman, Zuko, Jin Kazama, Hayate Ayasaki, Uncle Howee, Jimmy Hopkins, Miles Edgeworth, Charlotte LaBouff, Stella Hoshii, Sara Crewe, Candy White, Johnny Lawrence, Flash Thompson, Shouya Ishida and Shouko Nishimiya, Carl Wheezer, Colonel Sanders, Thunder, The Mane Six, Trixie Lulamoon, Fuyuhiko Kuzuryuu, Peko Pekoyama, Helga G. Pataki
• Enemies: Bill Cypher, .GIFfany, Eliza and Neil Reagan, Princess Morbucks, Manfred von Karma, Fire Lord Ozai and the Child Abuse Supporters, Relius Clover, Ghetsis Harmonia, John Kreese, Libby Chesler, Biff Tannen, Gary Smith
• Pities: Azula
• Confused by: Numbuh Two, Bart Simpson
• Pacifica Northwest was initially what she obviously was: a snobby rich gal who uses her ancestry from the supposed founder of Gravity Falls, Nathaniel Northwest so that she can get what she wants and is the designated rival to Mabel Pines, being there against her when Mabel wanted to have fun. And she remained that way until when Dipper and Mabel dueled against her in mini-golf with the help of the Liliputtians who tried to straight up kill her until the twins changed their mind and saved her. After the disastrous duel and learning how to share when grabbing tacos, Pacifica finally admitted she had fun even if it turned out bad.
  • Later, when the ghost of a lumberjack haunts a party her parents threw for the rich people of Gravity Falls, Pacifica's rough childhood was revealed: she was once a child much like Mabel until her parents Preston and Priscilla put her under Pavlovian conditioning in order to keep her from disobeying and maintain the family image, regardless if it was built on lies. As the ghost punished everyone at the party by slowly turning them into wood, Pacifica ultimately defies her parents' conditioning and pulled the lever to the gate to let the common folk of Gravity Falls in, finally convincing the ghost that she had upheld her ancestors' promise to them as he leaves the mortal realm. When Weirdmageddon happened, Pacifica joined the Resistance against Bill Cypher and contributed in Ford Pines' plan against him; despite it not working and resulting in her capture, she is freed once Bill is defeated. After Weirdmageddon was averted, the Northwest family wealth was lost and Pacifica and her parents must live elsewhere, but even if she could only keep one pony she had finally seen the Pines twins as friends, not enemies as they left the town.
• As they're surrounded by mostly people older than them, Dipper and Mabel decided it's time to help ascend a friend their age; sure, there's Candy and Grenda as Heralds but Dipper wants a friend that he and Mabel can hang out together and he's definitely not looking to endure another sleepover from them. The twins propose to the Court of the Gods that Pacifica had come a long way since being a bully to Mabel, as the incident in Northwest Mansion proves that she is better than her entire family and that she's in better behaviour, even downplaying her haughty act after Weirdmageddon. The Court evaluated their reasoning and decided she was worthy of her change; Pacifica Northwest is now the Goddess of Reformed Bullies. When she first arrived here through a limosuine asking her and her parents to this place called "the Trope Pantheons", she had a little exchange with the twins and it's clear she's delighted to see them again.

  Pacifica: You dweebs better not be setting me up for a prank...

  (pause)

  Pacifica: Just kidding! Hey, you guys! Now... what is this place?

  • When told she can have those closest to her as Heralds, Pacifica was hesitant at first but ultimately decided to make her parents Preston and Priscilla as the Heralds. Due to what they have done to her and her mental health, Preston and Priscilla are forbidden to ring their bell towards her as she deserves to be herself away from their upbringing; while Priscilla slowly accepts submissively, Preston was reluctant due to habits but ultimately accepts the limitation. Nowadays, you do see the parents and child together but not always because of the upbringing. Pacifica still find them to be horrible, but they're still her parents and they will come around whether they'll like it or not.
• As noted, she's finally friends with Dipper and Mabel even after their previous clashes before their disastrous mini golf game and Pacifica finally worked up the courage to declare them as such despite coming back to her haughty demeanour. Some deities and mortals think that she is attracted to one twin or the other and vice versa and in response while tired of pointless and even alarming discourse, the three kids have merely stated the words of their trollish creator, Alex Hirsch: "We're 12 year olds. We shouldn't focus on romance, we should focus on pop tarts and Pokémon." As for their Grunkle Stan, he thinks it's overkill she puts on too much makeup for a young girl but she still insist that it is fitting for a rich girl like her; other than that, they're okay with each other and more so after Bill's Weirdmageddon.
  • Speak of the devil, Bill Cipher refuses to let her live down the fact that her father sell his fellow humans out for preservation... when he has nothing to offer to Bill who already achieved all he wanted to do during the incident; Pacifica refuses to let someone like Bill run free, even if her father is a scumbag and she's still powerless to stop him. Dipper and Mabel also warn her of .GIFfany's threat which Pacifica accepts, only hearing about the news of the disaster she caused at the Suck E. Cheese's and now she knows the program is behind it.
• One of the first deities besides those she knows to welcome her is Bruce Wayne AKA Batman. Bruce Wayne sympathized with her, feeling that her abused childhood was just as bad as his orphaned one so he ended up teaching her what it actually meant to hold that kind of financial power, and all the kindness and philanthropist actions that went with it; moved, Pacifica decided to keep them to heart should she be able to inherit her family's wealth all by herself when she's older. After she told him of her family’s horrible deeds, he decided that Batman would pay them a visit. Once there he attempted to find the evidence, only to discover it had been moved. He sternly confronted Preston and Priscilla in full costume (which scares the living daylights out of them), and told them the following.

  Batman: You’re sick, painting all of your most horrible deeds like they were glorious victories, and treating your daughter like a dog. You drink and eat your spoils, confident that you hid that evidence well... but I’m going to find it. And when I do, you’ll be in jail faster than you can plead "innocent", and your fortune will belong to her. And there won’t be any deals that you can loophole or cheat around; it will be definite.

  • Safe to say, the abusive parents are now less likely to use the conditioning on Pacifica again, if not never again. Because if they do, Batman will be there to put them away for good in a jail possibly even worse than Arkham Asylum and no one, not even them would want that.
• There are others who sympathized a lot with Pacifica as well due to similar upbringings. Seto Kaiba in a rare display of kindness felt empathetic to her as well, having gone through an awful childhood because of his adoptive father Gozaburo and he has told her that she is free to enter any of his parks without pay, making sure to let his employees of said parks know, something she's happy about and thought of inviting Dipper and Mabel to join her soon. Hearing of Batman’s plans to reveal her parent's nasty deeds, he has secretly planned ways to trick them out of their money and businesses and give them to Pacifica, just in case the Dark Knight isn’t successful. Zuko too, having an abusive father of his own and he admires that she was able to learn that her destiny was her own, and at a far younger age than he was. Being a child, she was already friends with Hayate even before they knew about each other and the experiences of Parental Neglect they share simply helped them get along even faster; she's even glad that he's able to pay of the absurdly high amount of debt he was burdened with and she wishes she has that same amount of diligence in hard work which Hayate encourages to develop more. Miles Edgeworth surprisingly also got along with Pacifica, as both of them know the life with a parent abusing them using conditioning. Jin Kazama also offered her protection of the Heroic Protectors of Family who dedicate themselves to protecting defenseless children from dire threats, and she accepts. She does wish Jin would let go of his family's woes but he somberly says he can't because of the Devil Gene he was given from birth, which still makes him tied to his family anyway that'll strip him of any chance of a normal life, which saddens Pacifica.

  Pacifica: Man, talk about a family superpower that you don't want...

  • Naruto and Hinata have taken quite a liking to her, and have invited her over many, many times to spend the day with them and their family. She’s often stated that they are the best days she’s had along the ones she spends with the twins, even when Naruto is swamped by work. Even Boruto is okay with her, as long as he doesn't get worked up by her haughty attitude. Though she hasn’t accepted any adoption requests, most of the Pantheon believes they are the likeliest candidates for a potential foster family should Preston and Priscilla became permanently unavailable.
  • Uncle Howee went off to do his usual bit, tricking her parents into a bet they couldn’t win, turning them into marionettes in the process. However, Pacifica herself came to ask him to turn them back, determined not to be as cruel as they were. Howee respected her request; though he does do puppet shows for her every now and the, giving her a bit of a childhood she never had. Being a proud father that loves his son, Bowser swore to make the Northwest family pay for what they did to Pacifica (if Batman and Kaiba fail in their own respective revenge schemes) and Bowser Jr. was suitably horrified as well, so he and Pacifica occasionally go on playdates with Jr. even letting her try out the Jr. Clown Car.
  • Of course, it's pretty obvious that she would hate other Abusive Parents who have no remorse in their actions against their children. She hates Manfred von Karma to be like her father Preston, only more worse and it doesn't help that he offered them to be their lawyer should their trial comes. She also hates Fire Lord Ozai for his abuse against Zuko, and his plans for domination is no better than Bill taking over the world through Weirdmageddon. Relius Clover and Ghetsis Harmonia too, with Ghetsis being worse over the fact that N wasn't even his own child.
  • Pacifica has felt pity for Azula for also being under the thumb of an abusive father in Ozai since even if she fulfilled what he cares about in his children, he wouldn't even want them to share his seat of power. Unfortunately, Azula is not willing to take the pity from her as she's still of the mindset that she must gain the approval of her father as that she is all she had lived for; Pacifica could only sigh at Azula's impending self-destruction as she could do nothing to change her mind.
• Pacifica have mingled with girls from rich families (and one adopted into one) as they heard of her situation and sympathized with her experience through it. Charlotte is great friends with her, being an actual fellow nice rich girl; they often go on shopping trips together and don't worry, Pacifica hasn’t lost her sense of fashion. On one trip, Charlotte invited Sara Crewe and Candy White along, who actually hit it off with Pacifica and were glad that she turned around for the better; in turn, Pacifica gets to hear and imagine what it's like to be poor from them and takes their advice to heart now that she and her parents lost their mansion, stored riches and ponies.
  • Stella Hoshii may be a bit prideful and high-strung (particularly if it involves her robotic eye) she's still ultimately nice in the end, kinda like Pacifica minus the robotic eye. Unlike the Northwests who are snobby, greedy and unfair to the common folk, Stella is more generous as evidenced by the parties she and her family threw where she lets the staff take home any leftover food and even buys gifts for the staff's children; plus, Stella's closest friend Sei Asagiri is of a lower class than her. Stella is glad that Pacifica reformed and had make up for her family's terrible crimes and the latter in turn sees Stella as a cool adult to look up to. After all of these meetings, Pacifica had realized just how being a good person will honestly take one far.
  • Of course, where there are good reminders there are also bad reminders. The Reagan heirs, Eliza and Neil are just as snobbish as what Candy had described, and Pacifica was glad to not have befriended people like them fully. Pacifica also does not like Princess Morbucks, considering the Powerpuff wannabe's role is the exact opposite of hers: being completely pampered by her father while she is the villainous one; Morbucks think she's a whiny baby who might as well stay out of her power fantasy, which mind you can't be brushed off as childish when she has proven a threat against the Powerpuff Girls a number of times.
• Make no mistake, even if Pacifica turns around for the better she'll still act haughty like before and will take potshots at anyone even if she's allies with them. Of course for some, they can't really do that much anymore and such is the case of Fuyuhiko Kuzuryuu, a yakuza heir who was involved with the Despair Incident in his world and had to face losing his bodyguard Peko Pekoyama in the Future Foundation's rehabilitation simulation that kickstarted his resolve to be cooperative with his fellow remaining classmates. Kuzuryuu was angered that her parents rarely give a crap or two about her mental health, only their reputation and image and Peko had to restrain him so that he can cool off; instead of giving in to his anger, he instead decided to protect her instead should she needs it and everybody else who befriended her were unavailable. Peko felt pretty much the same way and discounting her and her young master's brainwashing by Junko Enoshima, she couldn't imagine being conditioned into obeying by her yakuza employers but tries be there for her.
• As she is now a Reformed Bully once she have largely stopped trampling on Mabel's fun, Pacifica found herself under Jimmy Hopkins' radar but instead of him about to beat her up for picking on Mabel, he instead pats her shoulder and commends her for changing her ways and plus, he usually doesn't directly beat up female bullies which is why he only use indirect methods; he'll make sure she's on her best behaviour from now on, not that Pacifica is under peer pressure to bully others anyway. Flash Thompson also related to her on that front, and became angered when he heard about the abuse; it's because he himself was under abuse by his own parents which led him to take it out on Peter Parker. Pacifica is only glad that being a superhero made him a better person overall, even if he's got some temper that might hinder his allies' efficiency. On a trip to a boutique, Pacifica met Helga G. Pataki, also a former bully who bullied Arnold out of not knowing how to properly express her feelings for him. As they talked, Pacifca felt sympathy for her due to her being raised by parents who hardly care for her, only her sister Olga and was a little glad she's an only child. Helga is more horrified that Pacifca was abused by her own parents, right down to Pavlovian conditioning on her psyche; the two girls decided to stick together in solidarity seeing as they also gotten kinder now that they have befriended their former victims.
  • Shouya Ishida is a also a former bully as he once bullied Shouko Nishimiya when they were in elementary, all because he didn't want to be bored. Soon after she transferred did he become a scapegoat for it, and this combined with realizing the stuff Shouko did for him did he come to seriously atone for this past of his in the present; Pacifica is glad that he did atone for his actions before it was too late and in turn, Shouya was pissed that she had gone through a hellish ordeal from her parents. Shouko also warmed up to Pacifica after they both relate to each other over their insecurities about what people think of them, and Pacifica tries her best in reassuring her that she's better than what people have said to her scathingly.
  • Johnny Lawrence was a vicious bully and karate student who undergoes a downward spiral in life after losing the All Valley Tournament to Daniel LaRusso and years later, wants to make amends. Pacifica had a lot of criticism for him since his bullying was more malicious than hers but she toned it down when she heard from him that he had a very rough upbringing, having a mother being a Gold Digger just to support her and him and having an evil sensei in John Kreese who taught him to win whatever it takes or else he'll face punishment; she realizes that she's Not So Different from him, right down to actively making amends in spite of still being a jerk and actively condemning lying and cheating. After agreeing that her parents suck like everybody else did, Johnny offered her lessons in his newly-reformed Cobra Kai karate school to give her some semblance of self-defense and while she would turn him down as she's usually not interested in karate, Pacifica accepts anyway as she knows that there are worse bad guys out there than Bill Cypher and the abusers she recently encountered.
  • The resident bullies of the Pantheons, such as Gary Smith, Libby Chesler and Biff Tannen are met with disapproval from Pacifica, as they are what would happen if she becomes just as worse than her parents and who she was back then. They all scoff at her, though they wouldn't mind bullying her if they feel like it. Through Johnny's warning, Pacifica stays away from John Kreese lest she gets beaten up by him or worse, being forced to learn his dirty fighting style.
• Pacifica is associated with llamas, due to her hair somewhat resembling one as well as a bell, and she fits the symbol on Bill's wheel when she wore one of Mabel's sweatshirts, which is something that embarrassed her to no end. Yet it still got her to meet Carl Wheezer one day after a shared class in Elysium Academy. Carl is reminded of his classmate Cindy Vortex only more snobbier but seeing as she turned over a new leaf, he offered to bring her to a llama farm; feeling a little bored by the week, Pacifica accepts. She ended up having a good time, even if they don't give her much joy as riding ponies and so, she made an unlikely friend in the wheezing nerd.
  • Speaking of ponies, Pacifica have never expressed so much joy and happiness when she saw the Mane Six hanging out one day, even if it's a little strange to hear them talk like a human but hey, she witnessed weirder stuff in Gravity Falls. Once she catches her breath and stopped hugging Fluttershy tightly, both parties exchange their tales and sympathies over each other's hardships with the ponies being horrified over her conditioning. Rainbow Dash was reminded of Gilda who was really mean to her until a few conflicts made her reform and mend her relationship with RD, and Twilight was reminded of Trixie Lulamoon who was haughty and a bully to her and the others until she was eventually humbled. Curious about Trixie, Pacifica goes to meet her at one of her shows she was performing; she liked it, though she thinks Trixie can pull off her theatrics better if she practiced. After the show, they meet and Trixie became a little bit jealous that Pacifica handled her envious feelings better before it comes to a threatening level, but otherwise is speechless at her childhood. Since then, the aforementioned ponies (as well as the CMC) often take the time to play with her, as long as Pacifica isn't going to go "I'm Taking Her Home with Me!" on them.
• She is actually skilled at mini-golf, and sometimes goes to the House of Sports to play a round. This gotten her mingled with Numbuh 2 and Bart Simpson who had experience in playing the game as well, albeit as beginners. Numbuh 2 goes against extreme enthusiast of miniature golf Rupert Puttkin and actually prevailed over him through sheer beginner's luck despite not having played a single game up until that point. This, combined with not taking it seriously causes Rupert to force a rematch by shrinking Numbuh 2 alongside the world's various monuments for another game, and it escalates with Rupert wanting to shrink the entire Earth and play miniature golf across the universe but is once again ultimately defeated by Numbuh 2 insisting it's just a stupid game where Rupert screws up his shot yet again. As for Bart, he was roped by his father Homer into playing mini-golf against Ned Flanders' son Todd and he gets trained by Lisa to be up to par against Todd, but come the game they're both under the crushing pressure of both of their fathers' cheering as a result of a bet and ultimately just decide to tie. Pacifica was dumbfounded at both of their experiences and Numbuh 2's even more so; she decided to take notes just in case she played against them soon. She did became worried about Bart, but he reassures her that Homer doesn't always act like that even if he has little respect for him.
  • There's also more to Pacifica than what everybody mostly known her for, like having a fondness for making puns, liking deep-fried food and being a skilled Level 100 player in Bloodcraft: Overdeath with the handle "PLATINUMPAZ". She does get her deep-fried food from Col. Sanders' KFC restaurant chain which she's grateful for and the Colonel in turn is glad someone like her enjoys his recipes. The T-Doll Thunder also secretly plays FPSs on her off time and was glad to join Pacifica in a round of Bloodcraft: Overdeath just to see her amazing skills.
• "Now, who wants to hear more about me?"

Jeanne d'Arc Alter, Goddess of Villainous Fakes (Ruler Alter, Avenger, Lancer, Berserker, Jeanne Alter, Jalter, d'Arcness, The Dragon Witch, Holy Maiden of Vengeance, The (Summer) Dragon Witch, Santa Alter Lily, Jailter, Christmas Maiden of Orleans, Joan of Arc Alter, Joan Alter, Mad Dog)

^{Jeanne d'Arc (Santa Alter Lily)} 

^{In a Swimsuit} 

• Returning to: Villainous Counterparts
• Greater Goddess
• Symbol: Her sword, La Pucelle
• Alignment: Chaotic Evil, Chaotic Neutral under the Master of Chaldea. Chaotic Good as Santa Alter Lily
• Portfolio: An evil knockoff, Knight Templar, Extremely popular in game, Highest attack in the game and has the defense of wet toilet paper, Seeks a harem of cute and edgy boys, Tsundere, Main antagonist of Orleans and the Da Vinci Event, Summons dragons and empowers them, Insecure about her being in the original's shadow, Secretly wants people to care about her, Ineffectual villainous schemes, Not-so-nice grins, Playing with Fire
  • As Santa Alter Lily: A child acting adult-like, Thinks people takes gifts out of need instead of want and hasn't grasped what happiness and joy are, Completely unexpected, Dislikes her adult self, Tries to invoke this with an actual ermine cape, What Jalter wanted in the wrong-est way
• Domains: Anger, Fire, Evil, Vengeance, Authenticity
• Herald: The separate Jeanne d'Arc Alter Santa Lily (much to the grown-up one's dismay)
• High Priest: Dark Zagi
• Allies: The Master of Chaldea, Gilles de Rais, Issei Hyodo, Brynhild, Kuroto Dan/Kamen Rider Genm, Dark Pit, Natsu Dragneel, Shana
• Rivals: Saber Alter, Professor James Moriarty, Celestia Ludenberg
• Enemies: YHVH, Goetia, Jean Pierre Polnareff, Judge Frollo, Ornstein and Smough, Mileena, Copy X, Metal Sonic, Vanitas, Kage, Nyarlathotep, The Yandere Squad, Yapool, The Psycho Rangers, The Dark Knights, Fafnir, Raynare
• Teeth-Clenched Teamwork: B.B., Kiara Sesshouin, Atalanta
• Opposes: Kyogre, Makoto Itou, Darkness (Konosuba), Girag
• Opposed by: Sara Pezzini, Punishing Bird
• Respected by: Ashirogi Muto, Rohan Kishibe
• Source of Interest for: Lucifer, Ragnaros The Firelord
• Disappointed in: Avenger (F/HA)
• Special Relationships with: Jeanne d'Arc (her original and not-sister)
• Born of the Caster Servant Gilles de Rais' wish for a vengeful Jeanne d'Arc as retribution for burning the original Jeanne at the stake, Jeanne d'Arc Alter is a darkened version of the Saint of Orleans' legend where she avenges her own punishment at the stake by subjecting others to the same fate. Once she was created, she began to lay waste on France, summoning dragons, wyverns and Servants to do her bidding and empowered the latter with Madness Enhancement to keep them under control. It was only through the effort of the Master of Chaldea as well as the world summoning the original Jeanne in response to her assault does Jeanne Alter fail and Gilles de Rais defeated, ending the Singularity and history is restored.
  • But her existence did not stop there. Aside from minor summons against Jeanne and attempting to ruin Santa Saber Alter's first Christmas run, Jeanne Alter came back to create counterfeit Heroic Spirits to fulfill a new dream: creating a harem of handsome men in order to feel loved. Even after the plan failed, she had gained newfound respect towards the Master of Chaldea and was allowed to the Throne of Heroes soon afterwards. Once she was summoned under him as an Avenger, one of the first things she had done is to defeat the lingering resentment in the citizens of France before it becomes a new Singularity; the proof of her willing to own up to her crimes despite not regretting them makes her more qualified to be a Heroic Spirit and fully cements her position in the Throne. Later in an attempt to foil Santa Alter once again, she carelessly drank a bottle of Child Gilgamesh's Lily potion thinking it was different one, turning her not only into a Lily, but a Santa. In the form now referred to as Jeanne d'Arc Alter Santa Lily, she becomes that year's Santa but she doesn't really understand human joy & happiness, because such things weren't relevant to what she used to be as a wraith of resentment and the way she brings out presents is based on need instead of want, so the Master concocts an elaborate plan with the rest of his Servants to bring out her innermost desire: seeing the ocean, a sentiment the original Jeanne knows best; with a true link to Jeanne's legend, this resolution fully cements Jeanne Alter's existence. Jeanne Alter also contributed in the fight against Goetia and the Demon Pillars, aiding in the downfall of the Demon Pillar Andromalius.
  • Jeanne Alter later aided the Master in the Shinjuku Pseudo-Singularity as a major ally, bantering with Saber Alter along the way. Later into the mission, she sacrificed herself to defeat the Avenger of Shinjuku and was presumed dead until after the final battle, where she demands a dance with the Master since she was jealous of Saber Alter dancing with him first. Later, a Singularity appears in Hawaii and Jeanne Alter was once again a major ally aiding the Master in figuring out its true cause as they must create Doujinshi for the first time; Jeanne Alter accepted as she wants to one-up the author of a doujin who aggravated her enough to take up drawing. When the culprit was revealed to be B.B. instead of the suspicious Foreigner Servant was only trying to seek the other Foreigner that's causing the Singularity, the Master and his Servants eventually defeated her; in the aftermath it turns out that the very doujin Jeanne Alter was one-upping is authored by herself, sent to the past to make her draw in the first place, a fact the then-Berserker was embarrassed at.
• Jeanne Alter was ascended before the Master of Chaldea had his foothold on the Pantheon called in by her original (much to the fake's chagrin), having the trope of Mirror Self as her part of her position. But as she takes a good look at it, she came to the realization that it's a lot better to have a title that accurately represents her existence, no matter how much she hates the reason why; she then makes her case to the Court of the Gods to renew her title. She reasoned that she is a fake copy of Jeanne d'Arc who supposedly embodies the evil in her heart as Gilles intended, but the real Jeanne never had any evil in her regardless of the atrocities she had committed. The Judges evaluated her old title and decided to approve her title change; she is now the Goddess of Villainous Fakes.
• Not many people would say it in front of her face, but when her Master had finally ascended into the Pantheons, she was acting excitedly during the party thrown by Pinkie Pie. He was one of the only people (probably the only one) who truly understands her true intentions: she wanted to be loved and accepted and she wanted to be her own person separate from the original Jeanne d'Arc and Fujimaru gives her both, no matter how much the Tsundere act failed to convince anyone otherwise. Speaking of Jeanne, she was glad that Alter is here as she wanted to play "big sister" since she had become the little one for far too long; in more serious circumstances, should Alter go back to being evil, Jeanne can exorcise her if possible since Alter is an evil spirit. Jeanne Alter herself again wanted nothing to do with her since she wants to stand out as herself, yet she can't help but getting roped in with her original's comical shenanigans; they do put aside their rivalry to aid their Master should he need their call in a dire time, since without him they both wouldn't have been able to materialize anyways.
  • To rub in the metaphorical salt wound even further, the separate Jeanne Alter Santa Lily was made her Herald. Jeanne Alter hated seeing a younger version of herself, finding her to be a brat who should be acting like an actual child (which she isn't wrong about) and Santa Lily likewise feels ashamed by looking at the peevishness of the adult Jeanne Alter. Like with the original Jeanne, Jeanne Alter swallows her pride and reluctantly cooperates with her if only to ensure the Master's safety.
    Jeanne d'Arc Santa Alter Lily: It seems like she is still embarrassed about becoming a Servant herself and doesn’t know how to deal with her Master. Good grief, she really cannot be helped!
  • She was a little apprehended when she saw that Gilles ascended along with his Master, Ryunnosuke Uryuu because on one hand, his hammy antics, worshipping of her and creepy tentacle attacks are irritating but on the other, she finds his presence a breath of fresh air from seeing too many a goody-two-shoes in Chaldea and plus, without him she wouldn't be here appreciating Master's faith in her. Most people have a fondness for seeing Jeanne Alter with Saber Alter for being much alike, backstories notwithstanding but the thing is, they have a fierce rivalry towards each other, as in "they would rather kill each other in cold blood than become true allies" fierce with their bitter opinions not helping to calm them down. They do agree on a few things, such as defending their Master and humanity in general and their own merits being worthy of each other's respect, but you'll mostly catch them fighting if you see them around.
    Saber Alter: ...Mad dog.
    Jeanne Alter: Ice bitch queen.
    Saber Alter: It seems our rivalry didn't end in Chaldea. I fully expect you to start it again, no?
    Jeanne Alter: Heh, of course I am! These days, you and I will settle this to the death real soon.
    Saber Alter: I cannot wait to pummel you into a puddle myself.
  • Brynhild and Siegfried find it amusing that Jeanne Alter had made counterfeits of them that are just as real as them... just to fill in archetypes of a harem story. They have no problems allying with her of course since the original is there to keep her in check; Jeanne Alter was at least a bit glad that she's not amongst the 'Brynhild's Beloved' list, not because she's afraid Brynhild would kill her but it's going to be annoying to take her sweet time for defense. Sieg finds her existence a bit weird and even more confused when Jeanne introduced her as her sister; regardless he tries to befriend her but like with other people, she pushed him away. Atalante finds her to be hard to work with, not just because she's a dark version of Jeanne but also she had undergone Madness Enhancement under her control back in Orleans and she refused to stand by that; not that Jeanne Alter cared much about it but she does look out for her Berserker Alter variation since she's more violent in that form.
  • She hates Moriarty, due to the fact that he tried to destroy the entire world with a meteor during the Shinjuku Pesudo-Singularity, though she already recognizes she probably shouldn't criticize him because she tried to destroy France with dragons herself. Shakespeare got a kick out of finding an evil version of Jeanne D'Arc to exist and if he does another production of Henry VI Part 1, she will play the part of Jeanne D'Arc; Jeanne Alter herself wants nothing to do with the playwright since his penchant for cheap and extravagant drama made her understand why the original Jeanne dislikes what he did to her^note Shakespeare put Jeanne through First Folio which makes a victim go through a deep fear of theirs; in her case it wasn't her stake burning, it was losing Sieg. She got pretty disappointed with her "senpai" in the Avenger class being very weak so she's not gonna expect much of him sooner or later and Angra could care less about her, although he's fascinated that there's more Servants under his class which delights him that his influence towards the Greater Grail is working.
    Jeanne Alter: That's the original Avenger? Huh, is that supposed to be a joke? Wait a second. The same class as me? No way... My senpai is too weak...
  • She had experience in fighting the dire threats of the Beasts, Goetia, Tiamat and Kiara Sesshouin, who have been detrimental to her world's history with their sheer power and misplaced love for humanity and she has no problem in joining in fending them off again. Goetia in particular sees her as part of Gilles' failed plan to ruin Orleans, France through history but otherwise, he mostly rebuffs her as another of the Master's living weapon. Ever since the ServaFes debacle and hearing the news of the SE.RA.PH. incident, Jeanne Alter is rocky with B.B. since her definition of "helping" the Master of Chaldea involves less than savoury methods of keeping them safe, which is expected of her being an A.I. from the residual feelings of the Sakura Matou AI on the Moon Cell; she nowadays is helping the Master normally but that doesn't make the Avenger Servant quell her understandable concern of her.
• Being an Evil Knockoff, Jeanne Alter has a lot of noteworthy interactions with those like her but to her dismay most of them are batshit insane even for her. Like for instance, Copy X and Metal Sonic who are evil copies of Mega Man X and Sonic the Hedgehog respectively. Copy X wants to defend humanity much like his predecessors but his extreme methods borders into near-villainy which most of the heroes he faced disagrees with very heavily, a sentiment Jeanne Alter agrees and shares. Metal Sonic shares her angst in being second best but while Jalter's woes and attempts are ineffectual at worst, Metal Sonic's are destructive and now lives to replace Sonic and nothing else which honestly turns her off from making an ally in him.
  • She's not an outright clone, but she's got the angst which Rau Le Creuset tries to convince her with to his side as he sees destructive value in her powers. She didn't bought anything he said, because even if the original outclasses her regardless, she still wants to stand on her own without her while she goes on her own alive as well, and if he hurts her or their Master she'll give him a burning so bad he can't pilot his mobile suit for months; Rau clenches his teeth and relents, missing his chance to have a vindictive witch at his side. And then there's Mileena, a Tarkatan clone of the Edenian princess Kitana created by Shang Tsung as a sister to her, but Kitana finds her to be an abomination that shouldn't exist instead. Mileena thinks Jalter should be getting along with her "sister" the original Jeanne, but while she's standoffish about that relationship, Alter makes it clear that she wouldn't want her dead as badly as Mileena would after she was rejected, even if both of them also have teen-like behaviours that came way after their conceptions.
    Mileena: You should be bonding with your "sister"!
    Jeanne Alter: First of all, she's not. Secondly, she might as well ignore me instead.
    Mileena: Yet, she does not give up on you. Will you ignore that...?
  • Yapool specializes in creating Evil Knockoffs of the Ultras in the form of Ace Killer (which he can possess, too) which is a far cry from her making counterfeits of Servants during her harem shenanigans. He prefers her Ruler Alter self as the her right now is loyal to the Master and he finds it to be a big loss of a potential ally; Jeanne Alter likewise can see that hatred has defined him even after coming back from the dead with it since she is also a being of hatred but should he pose a threat to her Master, she'll make sure his burning would be painful in spite of her size against him. Like Darquesse, Jeanne Alter also likes the idea of the Dark Knights' existence as she is also an evil version of a hero but unlike her, she finds them to be batshit insane (no pun intended) especially the Batman Who Laughs, the most insane version of Batman that makes Angra Mainyu look like a street thug. The same somewhat goes for the Psycho Rangers who are capable of impersonating the heroic Sentai teams to near unrecognizable levels which is something Jeanne Alter finds as annoying as fighting against the Assassin of Shinjuku.
  • She may not be an Enemy Within of Ryu like him, but Jeanne Alter still isn't very fond of Kage even if her (former) goal of destroying France would say otherwise, because she feels her reasons aren't as petty as the demonic fighter and like Saber Alter, would also prefer to kick his ass than actually work with him. Vanitas has proven too crazy for Jeanne Alter to ally with as well, even beating her in the whole "destroying everything with lots of Mooks" part; like Rau, Vanitas missed out on a powerful ally but he's considering torturing her Master so that she can give in...
  • The Avenger Servant actually relates a lot with Dark Pit, who like her is also an evil duplicate of a hero's supposed eviler traits, but came out as not that different from their nicer counterparts. In her case, she's only different in that she's standoffish and able to use La Pucelle without dying while in his case, he's cynical and scathingly honest and at the very worst just neutral and fights for himself; both of them do warm-up to people later on. The two have become Friendly Rivals in a way, and when they find the time they spar just to challenge each other's might. Due to his Rider form being a dark counterpart to Emu Hojo, Kuroto Dan is often seen being associates with her and Saber Alter, as he act himself as a buffer between the two all thanks to their opposite personalities; Jeanne Alter thinks his hammy tendencies makes him a bigger idiot than threatening, but after a he fended off a Bugster because it hindered his business she realized he's more threatening than what his behaviour implies.
• True to her name of The Dragon Witch, Jeanne Alter can summon, empower and control dragons, wyverns and anyone with the blood of a dragon, which is believed to be an inverse phenomenon from saints possessing anecdotes of dispersing the dragon kind, such as Saint Martha or maybe Saint George. This eventually came back to bite her in the ass when Smough and Ornstein kept hounding her about it, seeing her as an enemy that needs to be vanquished; she sent them packing after summoning her world's Fafnir. Speaking of Fafnir, the dwarf turned dragon refuses to let himself be controlled by her for her gain which doesn't fazed her in the slightest since he's not from her world anyways and Fafnir there is more of a concept of monstrous greed than a singular being.
• As she is another version of Jeanne d'Arc who in another universe is a chosen wielder of a magical artifact called the Witchblade, Sara Pezzini doesn't want to let it fall into her hands as her evil nature makes her a dangerous wielder and it's worse if it's actually compatible with her. Jeanne Alter currently has no plans to obtain the Witchblade even if it piques her curiosity, but she does finds Sara's fear to be understandable.
• Jeanne Alter's Noble Phantasm, La Grondement du Haine represents the burning of Jeanne d'Arc at the stake for leading France's army to war against Britain and a woman leading an army was considered blasphemy and unthinkable back then. As she represents the idea of the vengeful maid of Orleans, she can freely use La Pucelle unlike the original who must use her entire lifeforce to activate it because of her legend. This led Jeanne Alter to meet the fire users Shana and Natsu Dragneel, during a stop at the sub-House of Fire and Heat. Shana is a Flame Haze, and she knew fighting all her life until meeting Yuji Sakai and falling in love with him, kinda like Jalter being angsty about her existence after her failed tenures as a villain until meeting Fujimaru and developing feelings for him. Shana finds the copy rather underwhelming and a loser at first until their first sparring when she nows finds her to be no slouch while Alter sees her as a deadpan and serious Servant Oda Nobunaga, right down to the shared voices; they both still relate for sharing skin-deep denials about their feelings for their crushes though Jalter is a little jealous Shana finally hooked up with Yuji for real. As for Natsu, who is known for befriending enemies, after one fight with her he realized that she had changed so much since her attack on France and was relieved she's less likely to harm others needlessly since her Master wouldn't ask her to. As he extends his hand to her, Jeanne Alter reluctantly shakes it as she learns that he's just as head-strong and determined as her Master minus the fire powers.
  • She doesn't dwell too much on Jeanne's burning as she's too preoccupied with one-upping her but she can understand the dangerous threat of Ragnaros the Firelord and it doesn't help that he's too reminiscent of Surtr who also wants to purge the world in fire yet both have different reasons to do so (Surtr because he's fated to and Ragnaros because he's doing what fire is doing). Like he is with other fire users, Ragnaros expresses interest in Jeanne Alter and how she utillizes said legend of the burning as her ultimate weapon.
• Most French deities in the Pantheon other than those involved with Chaldea are apprehensive of Jeanne Alter's countrywide assault on historical France despite her owning up to it because had she succeeded, they wouldn't have existed long enough for their stories to be heard. A noteworthy one is Jean Pierre Polnareff, who can't forgive her in spite of her good looks because no one dares to soil his homeland; they duked it out and while he held out against La Pucelle, he nearly got himself staked by La Grondement Du Haine. That's because the Primal Kyogre was in the vicinity, negating her fiery Noble Phantasm and Polnareff took advantage of it by knocking La Pucelle and her flag out of her hands, finally allowing him to put her out of commission with Silver Chariot; since that fight, Alter swears to take revenge on Polnareff and Kyogre for completely humiliating her.
  • On a lesser note, Punishing Bird wants to punish Jeanne Alter for the stuff she pulled against France despite her not really doing that anymore and it being completely unable to understand nuance. Luckily, she finds that his pecks are at worst just annoying so long as no one retaliates against it, a warning she'll keep in mind.
• Jeanne Alter finds belief to be evil since to her, it leads others into a false sense of comfort which is why she likes telling other pious Christians that she defies God just for kicks. YHVH obviously doesn't like the blasphemy she's doing to His followers despite raising good points, which is why He locked her up for the transgression. It's only when Siegfried came to free her and let her out long enough to break it to the original Jeanne that she worshipped the wrong God before fully escaping His grasp; after that, Jeanne's faith in YHVH dwindled, further increased His ire against her. As for Judge Claude Frollo, Jeanne Alter is disgustingly reminded of Bishop Pierre Cauchon who burned Jeanne at the stake and her own first victim after conception; the feeling is mutual as Frollo has a special disdain for her since to him, she's a perversion of the Saint of Orleans with an extremely titillating appearance. Aside from understanding why Esmeralda hates him, Jeanne Alter plans on burning him like she did with the bishop that condemned Jeanne.
  • Because she dared to defy YHVH, Lucifer sees value in her strength as a Servant and Jeanne Alter Santa Lily can cause liability issues with Melkor, while it doesn't affect Lucifer in any shape or form. After some decision making, she instead refuses seeing that her Master already rejects him and his philosophy, not to mention that after her assault on historical Orleans, the worst she can do in her schemes are ineffectual and less malicious anyway. Lucifer concedes, beating himself up that he should have goaded her when the Master was not around yet.
• Previously, Jeanne Alter wants to have a harem of edgy and cute boys for her to love and hate while crusading against France. Currently, she hasn't gone back to indulging it again since the Master has given her the affection and attention she wanted but it does got her mingled with unlikely people. When he heard about it, Issei Hyodo got a good laugh about it which embarrassed her a bit, but he understands the need for love when no one else is willing to love them, as he explains to her that the reason why he keeps putting himself down even if he got the harem who loved him dearly is that his ex-girlfriend Raynare killed him once. Hearing about it, Jeanne Alter offered to join in on defeating her, hoping that she'll pay for disregarding suitors like terrible clothes and probably as another to torture unabashedly; plus, he's got a draconic form so what's not to like about it? (Other than its name...) Another person who had similar aspirations than her is Celestia Ludenberg whose dream is to be in a European castle with handsome butlers styled as vampires at her beck and call; Jeanne Alter finds it farfetched to be achievable, and then she learned that she only wanted it just to escape her boring life which she finds laughable yet understandable since it's just like living in someone else's shadow. Angered that someone like her had found out about her true, boring past, Celes remained hostile towards Jeanne Alter even if she somewhat agrees being in someone's shadow is no different than being unknown.
  • She's also one of the pnly people to call out on Kiyohime's over-attraction and intolerance to dishonesty. This got her worked up against the GUAC's Yandere Squad who banded together in order to protect their beloved, no matter the methods and if they even wanted the "help"; save for the reasonable members like Yuno, Yubel and Anna, the Squad are offended that whatever it takes for them to keep their beloved around is depraved and have declared her an enemy for the one slight. The boyfriend of two of its members Kotonoha and Sekai, Makoto Itou isn't any better in Jeanne Alter's eyes as he did a lot of stupid decisions that warranted his death at the hands of both of them; Makoto himself finds her scary due to her reputation and would rather not provoke her further lest he himself get burned at the stake as well.
• She's extremely wary of any masochists, due to the fact when she wished for a "true female friend" in the fake Brynhild, she instead got a lesbian masochist that annoyed her to no end. It's why she began to hate the knight Darkness on one afternoon when both of them got into a fight out of an argument over... something. As Jeanne Alter got the upper hand and gave her heavy damage, she began to uh... enjoy it as if it's a pleasurable experience. Disgusted, Jeanne Alter has vowed to not approach her ever, not even in a fight.
• Jeanne Alter has picked up various hobbies to push herself to be more than Jeanne d'Arc's evil version, and one of those is drawing manga and doujinshi even if the doujin she tried to surpassed was actually authored by herself, something that she wouldn't want anyone to bring up again out of embarrassment. Still she does tries to get pointers from the duo Ashirogi Muto and the artist Rohan Kishibe anyways, should B.B. pulled her stunt again or she's invited to a convention and she needs some quick money. The duo were impressed with her work during the course of the loops and agrees that Crossvikki Magician Girl and the Monster have proven to be her best entry, something that Rohan also agrees but finds her other previous work before that to be lacking which she already noted during the loops. The Barian Emperor Gilag has also seen her works was super impressed, so much so that he tries to show his own art to her, which is... not that good. She ended up insulting it so bad that he got sad and left; she instantly felt bad but assures herself that he seems tough and can tell he's got the tenacity and passion to keep drawing even if no progress will be made to improve.
• "If there is a God, surely I will be punished for this."

@M1gami. Basically e-celebs are online personalities that are defined by their presence online, with the most obvious being Youtube, obviously you know this since you brought Pewdiepie in the first place

@Faso "and no, we are not banning e-celebs just because of a few bad apples" Bad apples? How long till you realize that e-celebs in general are not worth the hassle if stuff like this actually came. This sounds like a "no but I don't wanna delete all e-celebs because why not" excuse. You brought a literal child groomer in here and you're saying we shouldn't consider others?

@Super The link I posted holds all proof of the allegations being true, here, it is an audiolog of the entire google documents detailing the accusations

Edited by HamanaHamanaHamana on Dec 7th 2020 at 3:27:51 AM

@HamanaHamanaHamana Regardless of how they may be related, you can't (morally) execute ten innocent people for the crimes of one, or two, or even nine; you can only execute the amount of people equal to the people who have committed crimes worthy of being executed. So, too, can you not delete multiple profiles for the controversy possibly created by one, regardless of how they may be linked by their shared media type. That is my opinion on that subject.

Edited by yugi195 on Dec 6th 2020 at 6:28:34 PM

Not buying it completely until an official source confirms it, aka police and news sources. A commentary Youtuber (reputed or not) will not convince me.

So, even if it is a persona like Nostalgia Critic or Filthy Frank (who doesnt have an online presence BTW since it ended) they count as an eceleb?

Edited by M1gamiTensei on Dec 6th 2020 at 10:39:34 AM

@Hamana:

Honestly, going by that logic all RL deities should go. Everyone IRL could spark a controversy sooner or later, e-celebs are in no way the only problematic RL Deities, and getting all of them banned even when most of them have done nothing horrible or controversial is frankly spiteful and unprofessional. By that logic we shouldn't allow anyone that is not fictional and not many, if anyone, would want that.

I think you're being pushy with your views and are trying to impose your opinion and views over everyone else's, you're not this thread's messiah, there are more people here and if they oppose your choices of deleting all e-celebs, maybe you can start listening to them. I am not calling you out or shaming you, just reminding you that this thread is ran by many people and their opinion counts

Edited by VengefulBale on Dec 6th 2020 at 12:41:55 PM

I also did vouch for the deletion of IRL deities even wootzits said that the deletion of such controversial figures means better choices from other media is a viable option. Since all of you don't want deleting them all, how about reevaluating them all one by one to see who gets to stay and who gets the boot, like Pyrocynical and Chris Hansen for one.

Seriously, if you all just simply ignore this problem, then things like this will happen. It happened the first time when the Nostalgia Critic and Ethan and Hila Klein profiles were the core of certain controversy and now the second with Pyrocynical. It is why I support full deletion so that all of such can be deleted and everyone is fair game where we all focus on fictional portrayals. (And yes, I also vouch the deletion of my SovietWomble profile if it means avoiding IRL problems again)

The original core of the Pantheons is fictional characters that have a crossover and not some sort of meetup with a person's description of their favorite e-celeb. If that is the core, then your statement is hypocritical because it says "By that logic we shouldn't allow anyone that is not fictional and not many, if anyone, would want that" when in reality that is the aim of the project in the first place.

I'd rather we start now, the last time someone had an idea for deciding what to do with the three unecessary pages it went nowhere and was never brought up.

Edited by HamanaHamanaHamana on Dec 7th 2020 at 3:55:42 AM

That is definitely better and more preferable. Let's take our time

I'll just ignore that last statement, let's just talk this out

Edited by VengefulBale on Dec 6th 2020 at 12:55:21 PM

1) Thank you for admitting that you yourself are capable of wrongdoing and amenable to removing your own IRL profiles from the Pantheon. Acceptance of flaws is the first step to recovery.

2) The compromise is greatly appreciated. A close tempering of IRL deities and gradually (gradually) tighter standards for them would be greatly appreciated.

Here's my thoughts on IRL deities:

Honestly, if we had to strictly regulate IRL people, those I would advocate keeping are the creators of fictional properties and advocates of proper culture (music, art) aka those who are listed as Superiors to ascended fictional deities. So people like Walt Disney, Lovecraft, Gen Urobuchi, George RR Martin, Tolkien, Yoshiyuki Tomino, etc should be kept (unless their controversies are super damaging). People collaborating in such projects like directors, producers, composers, etc would be under this protective net. Anyone else like historical figures, politicians, or Internet personalities (especially Youtubers) should be subject to close cross-examinations before we accept any such suggestions, even if they are explicit examples of the tropes they represent.

Controversy itself shld be a case-by-case issue. Something that is a big issue to contributors here may not be serious one to the public at large.

Edited by SuperWIKI1 on Dec 7th 2020 at 2:59:32 AM

But the difference between H 3 H 3 and Nostalgia Critic is that the former are real people, the latter is a character in his own universe but is synonymous with the one portraying him. So, even if the personas are fictional, set in a fictional world even if it rooted in reality (not unlike current South Park), you count them as an eceleb?

Edited by M1gamiTensei on Dec 6th 2020 at 10:54:47 AM

He is considered an e-celeb regardless especially on internet history. It seems like you are so intent on defending him. This is not knowyourmeme.

Starting next page, I'll outline which e-celebs and IRL deities get the boot since you people really are too lazy or unwilling to just delete them all just to get rid of such problem.