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Welcome to the Trope Pantheons thread! Please read the rules:

    Rules 
Rules. The following are not suggestions or tips, but things that have to be followed:
  • When writing a profile, take note of the following:
    • The very first thing any contributor should do before working on an idea or a profile is to propose and nominate the idea on the Trope Pantheons discussion thread. In the forums, you must discuss with other users on adding ideas and seek their approval with sound reasoning, a paragraph of reasoning to justify taking a trope should be sufficient. This is done to see if your proposal is the best representative and so, in case your profile is turned down, you do not waste time writing something that others might not find suitable. You can also get some assistance in the forum thread by either asking for help and those interested asking if they can help. Attempting to work on ideas without a nomination and at least one net thumbs-up will not be accepted regardless of how much you have written already. Submissions that are added without discussion are likely to be deleted and those who violate those rules by adding Pantheon content without discussion will get reported to the mods.
    • If you feel the need to remove a character for some reason (poor quality, outdated titles, etcetera) and replace him/her with another or outright rework, please see what the other tropers think about this in the discussion thread before doing anything hasty. For reworks in particular, nominate the idea as you would with new characters or profiles. Use good reasoning to see if your idea can easily replace the character present without drawing out your statement or giving too ambiguous claims most do not understand.
      • In the same vein, if you adopt a profile from another troper, it is recommended that you make an announcement that you have done so on the discussion thread. More often than not, a trope that was reserved for something was given away to someone else. Check the Related tab on the top of a page to see if a trope or character has been reserved by a user, either in the Pantheon or the Sandbox sections.
    • If, for whatever reason, you are writing about a God who just happens to be a person in real life, just try to be very careful about what you decide to say. Do not try to make the editing seem too meta (self-referential) and use the creativity to create hypothetical scenarios towards fictional characters. Some real-life individuals, including content creators (fictional content created by them is still fair-game, but do not bring up the creators themselves in such cases), may be considered disqualified for profiles due to controversies that would make them concern the Rule of Cautious Editing Judgment. To determine where a current creator would be disqualified:
      • Wait for at least a month after the latest significant update for a creator's controversy before any decision can be made. If a confirmation from the questioned creator (or associates) themselves occurs, then wait for a week.
      • Immediate disqualification for either a guilty sentence in a significant court case against the creator, or evidence of consistently repeated, deliberate, and/or intentionally provocative hate speech and advocacy of dehumanizing perspectives, with lesser examples warranting caution instead.
      • For creators with a clear persona of their character disclosed before any scandal, the persona can have a profile with no mentioning of their real-life information. Ambiguous existence of a persona would have to be discussed further hand for anything more decisive.
    • For obvious reasons, gods cannot be followers, high priests, or heralds. The 'gods' have ascended meaning there is no need for said character to be a follower of another if they have ascended.
    • No hype profiles, please. 'Hype Profiles' are profiles that have been made out of ongoing events and have not been around for a long time. This creates 'hype' due to popularity and certain elements either through certain scenes, memes, dramatic acting or considered overly awesome. They are not bad tropes but building a portfolio solely for that is a bad idea, as they do not say a thing about representing the trope best (unless it's those trope concepts that they are trying to embody for a long time)
      • You can see one if the profile is only showing off how awesome they are or suddenly pushing how 'significant' they are thanks to the just very recent events rather than respecting the longstanding good representations of the trope. And usually having... minimum portfolio or flavor texts and being a bit too generalized or self-contained to events from within their home series instead of interacting with other Pantheon members.
  • When posting in the forum, take note of the following:
    • When you suggest a God, please explain why they fit the trope. Not everyone is going to understand just "X should be the God of Y because they exemplify the trope" off the bat, especially if they're unfamiliar with the work.
    • You must use the Trope Pantheons discussion thread in the forums if you wish to add a new deity, story, something else of importance to the Trope Pantheon canon, or reworking an existing deity (be it simply improving their existing profile or changing their title).
      • For new and reworked deities, 3 [tup] means the profile will have a one-week waiting period.
      • For new and reworked deities, 4 [tup] is a 3 day waiting period.
      • 5 [tup] is an automatic ascension for new and reworked deities.
      • Speaking of reworks, for anyone that wants to improve such profiles, they have to review the current trope the character(s) has and see if it still holds up or if there is a better rep for their trope.
    • For adding new Treasures to The Great Treasury or new Dominions to the Dominions Expansion, the following rules apply:
      • For new Treasures or Dominions, 3 [tup] is a 3 day waiting period.
      • 4 [tup] is an automatic addition to the Great Treasury or Dominions.
    • Do not repost a profile in the forums more than twice a day if noticeable changes have not been made in between. If a profile is posted a third time in a row without noticeable alterations, it will be downvoted. This is so spamming of no-effort profiles is less frequent and to prevent tropers from getting aggravated seeing the same profile over and over. The minimum acceptable change has to be one flavor text.
    • The Pantheon is not a mouthpiece for you to voice your opinions on certain characters. You may like certain characters more than others, but do not make the mistake of making profiles for characters you like to look like Character Shilling.
    • Every troper new to the Pantheon is barred from approving or downvoting profiles until they have ascended at least two profiles, this means avoiding the usage of "[tup]" or "[tdown]".
    • Do not include fan reception in any profiles. It has nothing to do with the character themselves and will create unnecessary conflict.
    • Write a detailed explanation on why the character is the best candidate for the deity of that trope. If people disagree with you, do not force it on the people.
    • Keep in mind that if you still want to try to find a trope for a particular character, you are only given three chances to find a particular trope for them. If a suggestion goes past three possible tropes, then it will come off as shoehorning a character into the Pantheon just for the sake of that character to be there.
      • On a related note, even if a character does have a free trope being suggested, there is still a limit of three attempts for suggesting that character for that trope. If no one responds to that certain proposal after being posted three times, then it will get to the point where the idea will be seen as being shoehorned into the Pantheon. In addition, the idea needs to be considered acceptable and approved because they are good, not for the sake of pitying others. After all, no one is responding to their idea.
    • You can also adopt a profile or idea to work on from another contributor by messaging a request to them (preferably through private messages). Even if you get their permission, you still have to announce your adoption to the forum. Note that if the idea wasn't nominated in the first place you still have to properly nominate it.
  • When posting Pantheon related stuff to the wiki, take note of the following:
    • Do not put a link to these Pantheon pages into the main wiki page. The moment you want to note in a trope example that the character is a God of this trope, do not do it. If you see leftovers of this practice, correct the situation by deleting the offending text. This goes for any non-Pantheon page. The only exception to this rule is if a page in the Pantheon could be confused for a page in Main, like Good Colors, Evil Colors and Pantheon.Good And Evil Colors.
    • Do not bring things that would incite fights; hot topics and 'urgent' news are not pertinent to the Pantheon's mission. For example, the political scene and some really bad politicians. We are not here to fight each other, so don't suggest things that go in that direction, this is a fictional Pantheon after all.
    • To add a Pantheon page for a certain work, 4 or more characters coming from the same series/franchise should be ascended before adding the page. For Creator specific pages, 4 deities coming from the same creator and 2 individual work pages coming from the same creator is the minimum to warrant a page.
    • Do not create a trope page for a story until the story is fully completed.
    Instructions and Tips 
Here are some tips one should keep in mind when editing:
  • When writing a profile for a character, here are a few things to note:
    • Please refer to Text Formatting Rules when writing a profile, since understanding how to make and edit site pages in general is a necessity for working on profiles or other Pantheon content. Additionally, if you are not experienced with English, refer to this forum page, as proper English spelling and grammar is expected.
    • All deities should be sorted by their divine ranking. Put Overdeities on the top of the page and Quasideities on the bottom. Also, be sure to add them in alphabetical order by their first/given name (can be reversed if it is Eastern ordered). For a group, if there is no official name for them all list down all their names by order of relevance or (if too long to list) title them as Insert Name Here Main Characters or some other identifiable title along the same lines.
    • The maximum number of tropes that a god can have is two, but do not try to abuse that fact. If you need to use a second trope to specify a certain thing about their position, that can be excused either because said character represents their trope choice very well alongside the first trope. It is still generally encouraged to only have one trope.
    • A trope can only belong to one profile at a time. The only time two profiles can share a trope is if there are explicit variations listed in the trope page proper (e.g. Muscle Angst is held by both Biscuit Krueger and Chihiro Fujisaki as the former represents "Too Much Muscle" and the latter represents "Not Enough Muscle")
    • If the character you are about to add to a House already exists in another, make sure to mention that this person has spots in another House as well. Up to 2 places can be made for a deity at most.
    • For a character's theme song, try to avoid calling it "Theme of God X" or "Theme of (Show where God X originates from)". If possible, try to find out if the song has an actual name through research. Most importantly, it has to be part of their series' official soundtracks from the media. Do not list songs that are made by fans or outside sources. If they were not specifically used as music for that specific character, then they do not count. Furthermore, it has to be a general theme specifically made for that characters' appearances, not some generic music that plays for many other instances not related to the character in question.
    • For images, when adding an image for your chosen character, it is highly recommended to use a stylized image that embodies the character or renders that also highlight a character's behavior (such as cool poses). Most images should be from the main adaptations of the character unless the images from the other media are of a higher quality than the adaptation. Unless it is needed, do not use fanart for images. If you are, please attribute it to the original artist. Due to the website's dark mode, removing white backgrounds from an image is paramount. This website is suggested to do the background removal. If an image you have takes up too many bytes, it is suggestible to use this site to reduce the byte size. If the byte is still too big, run the compressed image through other sites (or even the same one) to compress even further. Use wikis to look for better images, as even wikis for the series might not contain good official images.
    • Creativity is your friend. While it is not recommended to get too ditzy at your ideas, it is best that when writing a profile for a certain character, do you think of capable scenarios between X and Y. Tip: do not use shallow examples (X wields a sword and Y wields one too) and try to think of relationships that make sense (i.e those characters that are shout-outs for another).
  • Pantheon Content:
    • Some series or genres will eventually have greater representation in the Pantheon than others. This is unavoidable, but a little diversity helps to make you not look like a shill. Try to ensure that if you add a deity from a popular series, make sure that it is because they are a good representative for the trope in question, and not just because they are connected to another deity in their respective canon.
      • As far as deities from actual mythologies, there is generally an expectation to build the profiles off interactions from fictional portrays rather than basing it entirely from the actual myth. Therefore, a mythological deity should be more of a Composite Character whose main identity is from the actual myth.
    • Occasionally there will be Gods that carry a title without a trope. This is not forbidden, but it is well-advised not to abuse them. The only house where trope-less profiles are wholly allowed is the House of Food. Mainly due to most food items lacking tropes, and adding tropes about said foodstuffs is slightly unnecessary. However, the character being ascended for their choice of food, or food-related thing must be a decently good representative of said item. (i.e their Trademark Favorite Food, or something that they are closely associated with In-Universe, or both).
    • For Dominions and Treasures profiles, always consider what made those places/objects popular in the first place. Were they plot-important, identifiable imagery or have a unique aspect of it? Do not just bring regular objects under the basis of following a certain canon.
    • Do not write in self-promotion or blatant advertising. Minor references to something are fine but writing that clearly intends to advertise something will not be given toleration.
  • For Profile Standards:
    • Flavor text is used to describe certain things about a character, place, or object. To avoid short ones, it is recommended to write flavor text with 4-7 sentences that can fill around 2 lines each. Be warned that adding too many sentences does not equal good flavor text as it is not an essay of sorts (unless words are substantial and do add to the overall line).
    • Character Profiles of a certain person should have the following:
      • A portfolio that contains at least 7 (at the minimum) tropes describing their character.
      • Flavor text count for a deity profile should have by minimum, 10 (depending on if the character in question has enough relationships/characterization) to 15 with a maximum of 20-25 for an individual profile.
      • On the other hand, group profiles (profiles of a group that has 4 or more members) have their maximum flavor text count to 15 minimum, giving individual lines for the other members of the group (unless the members are not as characterized) up to 30 at max.
    • Dominion profiles of a certain place should have the following:
      • A portfolio that contains at least 5 (at the minimum) tropes describing the context of the place.
      • Flavor text count should range at least 10 to 15.
    • Treasure profiles (inanimate objects without a trope) should have the following:
      • A portfolio that contains at least 6 (at the minimum) tropes that describes the object itself.
      • Flavor text count should be at least 7 flavor text up to 12 to constitute a treasure profile.
    Divine Ranking System 
  • Overdeity: Omnipotent-level Reality Warper deities capable of manipulating the entire universe (or at least the world) at will. Within their own universe they are believed to be omnipotent, or at least impossible-to-completely-destroy embodiments or concepts.
  • Greater Gods: High-level Reality Warper deities that are extremely powerful (capable of destroying or changing anywhere from a large city to a planet at will) and very strong non-reality warpers capable of doing the same thing.
  • Intermediate Gods: Deities at this level are capable of strong but specialized powers such as hydrokinesis, pyrokinesis, etc. without major drawbacks and low-level Reality Warper beings capable of affecting their immediate area at will.
  • Lesser Gods: Capable of highly specific or little power on their own, or suffer from Power at a Price. However, they may be able to ruthlessly exploit their power or combine it with just being badass enough to make up for it.
  • Demigods: Badass Normal citizens of the pantheon, making up for their lower status with strength, strategy, and/or planning.
  • Quasideities: Any otherwise normal human, human equivalent, or below without any special powers or training will fall here.
    Templates 
Template for adding a new deity: God X, God/Goddess/Deity of (Insert Trope Here) (Alternate names/Nicknames, Fan Nickname)
  • An image, if possible. Please use official art or a screenshot for a picture.
  • Rank: This can range from Quasideity, Demigod, Lesser God, Intermediate God, Greater God, to Overdeity, based on the representation of power mentioned above.
  • Symbol: An image or icon used to represent the deity.
  • Theme Song: Official song (in other words, no fan music, regardless of quality) that usually is used in affiliation with the character. If the deity is a musician this will most likely be their Signature Song. If possible, give a link for reference, preferably on either a website like Soundcloud or YouTube.
  • Alignment: Good, evil, neutral, etc. Forget about The Great Character Alignment Debate here; the Pantheon is one of the few places where you can assign Dungeons & Dragons alignments to characters that don't have an alignment system. After all, the Pantheon is based on D&D and is made for fun.
  • For Pokémon deities only:
    • Gender: Defines the gender of the Pokémon; if genderless, it instead defines what gender they identify as.
    • Ability: Provides the Pokémon's ability. If they can Mega Evolve, the new ability is listed as well.
    • Moves: Defines the four moves used by a Pokémon. A Z-Move may also be listed.
  • Portfolio: Tropes associated with the character.
  • Domains: Things that the character has influence over.
  • Herald: Non-ascended loyal character that is from the same series as the ascended character.
  • High Priest: Non-ascended like heralds, but not from the same series, and can serve as a worthy replacement in case the deity would be unavailable, incapacitated, dead, or otherwise incapable of carrying out their duties. They can be served as part-time workers in case the originals are busy with some jobs. Co-Godhood is accepted depending on the approval of the originals, usually if the co-deity is from the same series.
  • Followers: Non-ascended characters that are not part of the Pantheon, but would probably worship this character by the fact that they share the ascended character's trope.
  • Relationships between ascended characters go here with your chosen character, it goes something like this:
    • Allies: Members of the Pantheon that are allies, those that share the same values as them and would theoretically be friends with them.

    • Rivals: Members of the Pantheon that are rivals, people who may look at your character with suspicion or a challenge.
    • Enemies: Members of the Pantheon that are foes, those who would see your chosen character as a threat, either from their perspective or yours.
    • Additional Character Relationships: Members of the Pantheon that do not fit in various relationships (examples include Enemy Mine, Vitriolic Best Buds, Teeth-Clenched Teamwork, Headbutting Heroes, Friendly Enemy, Friendly Rival, Just Friends, etc.), allies, rivals, or enemies.
    • Partner: Defines a partnership with an ascended deity and Mon-type. (if any)
    • Feared by/Fears: A deity whom the members of the Pantheon notably fear or are feared by.
    • Respected by/Respects: A deity whom the members of the Pantheon respect or are respected by.
    • Opposed by/Opposes: Not necessarily the same as "Enemies", but this is used for any deity whom the members of the Pantheon directly oppose or are opposed by (basically the opposite of "Respects", "On Good Terms With", and/or "Commonality Connection") in terms of certain viewpoints, regardless of alignment.
    • Pitied by/Pities: A deity whom the members of the Pantheon feel pity for or are found pitiable by.
    • Conflicting Opinion: Sometimes, the Deities argue over specific themes and philosophies.
      • OPTIONAL NOTE FOR CHARACTER RELATIONSHIPS: Should the list for Character relationships (IE. Allies, Enemies, etc.) become too big, categorize a certain number of characters to a specific group putting them on a sublist (One example: Luigi is from the same world as his brother Mario, hence Luigi should be fall under the Super Mario Bros sublist.)
  • Add the Intro. The intro is made up of two trivia, the Ascension Text (or just the Ascension) and The Bio. Both are necessary, but which order you use for them may vary depending on the profile in question. It may be better for one profile to have The Bio first and the Ascension second or vice-versa, although for the most part, the order is irrelevant:
    • The Ascension Text: This is the story of how the character got into the Pantheon and/or was ascended. There are many ways for this to happen. They may be tricked into it or have simply wandered into the Pantheon, they may have had an already ascended character bring them in, they may already be in the Pantheon (via being another deity's Herald or sharing a trope) and got "promoted", or some combination of the above. Anything is possible in the Pantheon, so use your imagination, but try to incorporate their trope into the story, if possible.
    • The Bio: A brief synopsis of the character's backstory. No need for the character's entire life/production history, but just give enough that those who don't know the character can get an idea of how the character works.
  • Now add some random trivia/facts about events/alignments/moments/fights/friendships/relations etc.
  • And some more trivia/facts.
  • And a couple more.
    • Note: Standard amount of flavor text for Deities/Characters is 10-15 (15-20 for group profiles) at minimum to 20-25 (30 for group profiles) at maximum.
Template for Dominions profiles: Place X, Place of (Insert Trope Here) (Alternate names/Nicknames, Fan Nickname)
  • An image, if possible. Please use official art or a screenshot for a picture.
  • Theme Song (Optional): Not important as compared to Deity and Dominion profiles but a notable mention if there is an accompanying song in use with the object.
  • Alignment: Refers to the dominion's role in their story, be it those used by villains or used by the Player Character.
  • Portfolio: Tropes associated with the dominion.
  • Domains: Things that the place has links to.
  • Relationships (Optional): Unless the location has a connection with a specific deity, relationships are optional and may not be required. However, if there are deities linked to the same series as to where the dominion is linked to, note them using the relationships, this includes deities that theoretically have interest with said dominion, good or evil otherwise.
  • Add the Intro. Here the introduction of the Dominion is added with some tidbits regarding the origins of its' creation and usage in the story. You can also add what made it popular/iconic/important here.
  • Now add some random trivia/facts about events/alignments/moments/fights/friendships/relations etc.
  • And some more trivia/facts.
  • And a couple more.
    • Note: Standard amount of flavor text for Dominions is 10 at minimum to 15 at maximum.
Template for Treasure profiles: The name of the item in here (Alternate names/Nicknames, Fan Nickname)
  • An image, if possible. Please use official art or a screenshot for a picture.
  • Appearance: A shortened description of the item's looks with some notable features also mentioned.
  • Class: Refer to the Treasure Classification System in the Great Treasury.
  • Alignment: Refers to the objects' role in their story, be it those used by villains or used by the Player Character.
  • Theme Song (Optional): Not important as compared to Deity and Dominion profiles but a notable mention if there is an accompanying song in use with the object.
  • Museum Check: A note that says whether the item is viewable by the public.
  • Portfolio: Tropes associated with the item.
  • Domains: Things that the item has links to.
  • Relationships (Optional): Unless the item has a connection with a specific deity, relationships are optional and may not be required. However, if there are deities linked to the same series as to where the item is linked to (especially the original owner of the item), note them using the relationships, this includes deities that theoretically have interest with said object, good or evil otherwise.
  • Add the Intro. Here the introduction of the Treasure is added with some tidbits regarding the origins of its' creation and usage in the story. You can also add what made it popular/iconic/important here.
  • Now add some random trivia/facts about events/alignments/moments/fights/friendships/relations etc.
  • And some more trivia/facts.
  • And a couple more.
    • Note: Standard amount of flavor text for Treasures is 7 at minimum to 12 at maximum.

Edited by Tabs on Jun 24th 2024 at 7:51:43 AM

krimzonflygon2 Since: Jul, 2013
#326: Apr 29th 2014 at 4:52:54 AM

On a different note, should Lucy join the GUAC? She is loyal to Johan, but using one's power to shape the world as they see fit is really a Chaotic ideology rather than straight-up evil. She'd join because she wants to use her power to create a Diclonius-run world or something.

LordTyph Since: Mar, 2011
#327: Apr 29th 2014 at 8:43:07 AM

I wonder if YHVH will ever find out that the fact that the law needs to grow and change means that Chaos is a neccisary thing, as without Chaos and change, nothing will grow or anything. And thus, his idea of a 'perfect world' is doomed to failure as such a thing would stagnate and fall.

And on that note, if Lucifer will ever realize, or care, that Chaos on it's own is inherently self destructive, if people do not have some sort of standards or rules. Which is an aspect of Law. And the entire idea of a plan usually involves some sort of organization.

I'm not sure if any of this was explicitly brought up to them in their own canons, but it would be interesting to see how they would react to such knowledge. Whether it would be with shock and horror, denial, quiet acceptance, ect.

Also, I wanna say that, in Devil Survivor I think, YHVH was actually toned down a little bit on the whole 'absolute law' thing. That he was actually a little more understanding, although his servants were less so and still more focused on that concept. If he ever got 'broken' in some say again by any experiences and learned from them, it could be that this interpretation might be used. As in, God being a little more willing to let humans decide their own destiny, so long as they don't screw it up. This could be an ALTERNATE alternate ending. He would still set himself firmly against Lucifer, of course, and still be very law focused. However, he wouldn't be as oppressive towards people (although Metatron might be a different matter altogether, still clinging to the 'old ways'), and would be a little more willing to let them choose their own destiny (unless they screw it up).

Would this make sense as an alternate take on YHVH taking those sorts of teachings to heart?

Camilla What do you mean I'm not declared insane? Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Norwegian Wood
What do you mean I'm not declared insane?
#328: Apr 29th 2014 at 10:03:06 AM

krimzon, I asked magnum if I could kickstart my own project, "Project: Alternate Genaro", and I'm curious to see how it will affect the Pantheon.

The idea is based on Kamen Rider Fourze episode 31 (Gentaro dying to help Ryusei out) but what if Gentaro had lingering regrets instead of being downright happy to die? The little act will spiral as eventually Gentaro will fuse with his alternate self (A darker version of him who sees that friendship held him back) and starts rampaging across the Pantheon. Would this act hold lots of reprecussions for him and all of the House of Friendship in general? What are your thoughts?

Note to self: Never bet on Entei.
krimzonflygon2 Since: Jul, 2013
#329: Apr 29th 2014 at 1:45:13 PM

[up] Which Devil Survivor: original or Overclocked?

YHVH is a douche in both games, just not as openly evil as he was in SMT II. It's even harder to see in the original until you play multiple routes and really think about it: ultimately, the Tokyo Lockdown was his idea, and he was going for getting the King of Bel on his side from the jump. THAT was his ultimate plan. Not to mention that he basically tricked/forced Cain into killing Abel for this purpose, and then turned around and punished Cain.

He's not the YHVH we remember from SMT II, but he's still a bad guy. He's just a lot more insidious about it. Just look at what he had planned for Tokyo in SMT IV, or the whole effing planet in Strange Journey.

That's not even getting into Overclocked...

Ultimately, what I gather is that the royal asskicking he got from everyone and their grandma in SMT II was a wake up call in the sense that he's going to have to be a bit less ham-handed if he's going to get what he wants. He still WANTS it, but he's going to try a different route. One that doesn't alienate every single solitary one of his followers.

So...no. He is never, ever, EVER going to budge. No matter how he approaches it, he ultimately wants the same thing in every game: absolute Law.

But on the topic of Lucifer...

As a matter of fact, Lucifer outwardly admits that humans need rules in SMT IV. In the CHAOS route, no less.

—> Lucifer: Sadly, this new world is filled with Chaos. Left unchecked, the Sons of Man will only murder each other. What they secretly dream of is a new king: will you rise to rule them?

I think it boils down to him admitting that rules are well and good as long as they stand up to the test: they actually have to be worth a damn, and not just held in place for self-serving reasons. And thus he fights for the rights of the powerful to overthrow those rules.

@ Camilla

I see no issue with it. I know nothing about Gentaro, so I can't offer any concrete go-ahead, but I think it sound interesting. The only thing is, the reason we're going for a sweeping change throughout the Pantheon already is that Madoka was so freaking important, and something major just canonically happened: the Pantheon is going to have to change because of THAT. We gotta watch out for Haruhi's almighty Reset Button.

Just something to bear in mind.

Camilla What do you mean I'm not declared insane? Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Norwegian Wood
What do you mean I'm not declared insane?
#330: Apr 29th 2014 at 2:45:45 PM

Ah the canonical part. Yeah, that makes sense. While mine is based off a "What if" scenario, the Madoka thing is real, not fanfic. Okay, that makes sense. Although there still would be reprecussions for Gentaro becoming evil. His friends will have to be there until he recovers and he's gonna have a lot of blood on his hands.

Note to self: Never bet on Entei.
LordXamwethOudeis Lord Xamweth, The God of Discord from New Zealand Since: Feb, 2014
Lord Xamweth, The God of Discord
#331: Apr 30th 2014 at 4:58:50 AM

Hey, is there a god for Insufferable Geniuses? Because if there isn't I'd like to recommend two: Donald Davenport from 'Lab Rats' and Sheldon Cooper from 'The Big Bang Theory'.

Balancing harmony and discord is tough when you only control one half of the whole shebang.
krimzonflygon2 Since: Jul, 2013
magnum12 Since: Aug, 2009
#333: Apr 30th 2014 at 7:33:31 AM

Regarding Lucy, the question to be asked is "What does Kaede (the real self) want?". Only "Lucy" is loyal to Johnan. Kaede's wants are to be left alone and to be loved. She's very broken emotionally from the absolutely hellish life she had. It's "Lucy" that wants the stuff mentioned, and is the violent psychopath persona.

Not So Different with Overlord Zenon (who herself was driven to madness from constant betrayal), though in Zenon's case, her insanity is taken to Omnicidal Maniac levels. Also a cannibal who kills and devours Adell's adopted siblings in the worst ending. You hear the sounds of bones crunching and flesh being swallowed in the audio of the Japanese version of the ending.

edited 30th Apr '14 7:48:51 AM by magnum12

JDogindy Since: Jul, 2014
#334: Apr 30th 2014 at 9:24:00 AM

Pretty disappointed one of my favorite characters is a Disgraced Knight (Nena Trinity).

I got some bad newz to tell you.
HotmanX32 Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#335: Apr 30th 2014 at 9:52:01 AM

@Krimzonflygon2, When you said Lucifer wants rules, that practically makes him a hypocrite, is he not?

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TPPR10 Craving for fish from up north Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Craving for fish
#336: Apr 30th 2014 at 10:24:51 AM

You cannot break rules if there are no rules, yes? So if there are no idea of order, chaos cannot exist. It just is. Heck, you could say that one side cannot exist without little of the other (think about each side of yin and yang has a dot of the opposite colour).

edited 30th Apr '14 10:27:56 AM by TPPR10

Only sometimes posts
HotmanX32 Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#337: Apr 30th 2014 at 10:59:03 AM

That practically means that Order and Chaos are two sides of the same coin.

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krimzonflygon2 Since: Jul, 2013
#338: Apr 30th 2014 at 12:43:27 PM

[up]

Lucifer's version of 'rules' extends as far as "The strongest one can do as he will, changing the world as he sees fit, and any 'rules' change as he is defeated and taken out of power." What he's against is the idea of things like tradition, sacred cows, dynasties and eternal rule regardless of the ruler's competence.

When he says Flynn is the best choice to rule, that's because he IS: he's demonstrated he has the power to shape the world within himself. But as soon as someone strong enough to overthrow Flynn comes along, Lucifer will give them his blessing: the world will change again, to how the new ruler wants.

As far as he's concerned, rules are utterly arbitrary, and should be tossed out as soon as new ones come along that are superior, rather than keep them around for their own sake.

HotmanX32 Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#339: Apr 30th 2014 at 3:58:22 PM

There seems to be a contradiction somewhere....

edited 30th Apr '14 4:04:18 PM by HotmanX32

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krimzonflygon2 Since: Jul, 2013
#340: Apr 30th 2014 at 7:53:00 PM

[up]Not really...it boils down to relativism vs absolutism.

YHVH's ideal world is where Law is absolute. Basically, his idea of Law are laws no one could break. Not 'would': COULD. You wouldn't be able to break his decrees any more than you could break Newton's laws of motion. They could not be challenged, they could not be questioned, they could not be changed. EVER.

Lucifer is a relativist. His ideal of a world shaped by the strong would, inevitably, have laws and structure to them, or some modicum of them. But those laws wouldn't be etched into the very foundation of reality the way YHVH's would. They could be questioned and challenged by an up and coming individual, and he or she could overthrow those laws and put the ones he or she likes into place, so long as they had the power.

It's the difference between a wolf overthrowing an Alpha Male and taking his place, shaping the pack the way he sees fit, and a weird wolf society where a venerated Alpha Male's decrees and ways are immortalized, and to question them would be grounds to be thrown out of the pack. They both have structure to them, but Chaos is, as one might imagine, open to change where Law is not.

By the way, have you played any Megaten Games?

magnum12 Since: Aug, 2009
#341: Apr 30th 2014 at 10:58:13 PM

Just realized another potential perk to the 1a and 1b ending ideas. Since this arc takes cues from Injustice Gods Among Us, why not use this for yet another Call-Back? Two of them actually.

1. Refers to arcade mode in which Regime Superman is sealed away in the Phantom Zone. We could have a whole bunch of fragments locked away, leaving only one with any real power (justifying the big drop in power afterwards).

2. With this whole fragmentation, we can also pull a Call-Back to Rebellion's ending.

Even if it sounds "Kick em while he's down", that in itself is a highly ironic form of karmic justice. That which was plotted has become his fate.

Irony based karma is also part of why I've made my decision regarding using Lol Ranger as comumpence for the Great Upheaval. An embodiment of chaos being trolled and otherwise driven to the verge of insanity through a chaotic approach is most ironic. Not to mention the orchestrator of all his recent misfortunes being one of those humans (and a child at that he loves manipulating. Rika Furude (who herself enacted the ultimate act of free will as a NEUTRAL character) of all people. Did You Just Punch Out Chthulu much?

Speaking of which, got yet another idea for a Lol Ranger gag.

1 week after the war, turns out the "Pantheonic Rebellion" video game ALREADY came out. Our chaosy friend looks in shocked amusement that such a thing could churn out so quickly, so he bites and has a go. Deadpool's 4th wall breaking buddy Lobo shows up, chains him to the couch, flips the bird and burns his face with bike exhaust (this is Lobo's super in Injustice). Little does "Louis" know the horrors that await him when he sees an 8-bit LJN logo. The game is unbelivably awful, featuring all the horrible stuff you'd see out of an Angry Video Game Nerd review. The Forces of Chaos get no screen time in it. Worst of all, his playthough has become a live stream for the entire pantheon to see (anger, frustration, cursing, and all), with various characters getting in their chat comments. Madoka and Sayaka are just having a grand old time laughing their butts off. Eye Twitch of insanity ends the gag.

edited 30th Apr '14 11:16:02 PM by magnum12

LordTyph Since: Mar, 2011
#342: May 1st 2014 at 12:18:45 AM

So, part of me thought of a story idea. Basically, taking a character like Bubsy, a Disgraced God who ended up there less due to personality and more due to their own failures, and basically chronicle their stories living in a land where people are either crazy or horrific.

My idea mostly works with Bubsy, the idea being to make him a somewhat jaded performer of sorts, kinda like Slappy Squirrel. More due to his experiences in the Disgraces than anything else and probably being worse off than Slappy since he had much less success than she did and no one who really admires him (thanks to Bubsy 3D). Basically, he's depressed both from his failures and living here, possibly getting harassed by another failed mascot in the vein of Sonic, Awesome Possum (If you don't know who he is... good). The idea behind the story is showing how miserable living in the Disgraces is, with Bubsy even accepting the idea of losing his godhood, as long as he gets out. He doesn't care about Edward and Bella, and their attempts to escape. Bubsy, although he isn't happy about it, has accepted that he's down there for a reason, unlike most of the others. At this point, he just wants out.

It could also be that while he's there, he might end up talking about the world of gaming as a whole, noting how it changed (the shift from platformers and family friendly characters to dark and gritty FPS games being one example), and talking about the various trends. Possibly having dropped the punning part of his personality, mostly, due to... well, realizing it wasn't that funny to begin with. Hell, maybe have him try to put his feelings on both the Disgraces and the state of gaming onto the internet because a) it's not like his life can get THAT much worse and b) it probably won't get that far before being shot down by one of the gods/goddesses that would be running the internet in the Pantheon.

Does this sound like an interesting concept?

LordTyph Since: Mar, 2011
#343: May 1st 2014 at 2:37:28 AM

Sorry for a double post, but on that subject, I'd like to suggest Awesome Possum from the titular game 'Awesome Possum Kicks Dr. Machino's Butt' as a potential replacement for Bubsy in the position for horrible video games, if not replacing him for 'failed mascots'. Reason being is that both of them were created during the Mascot with Attitude era. Difference being that while Bubsy was more a straight mascot for Accolade, A.P. was meant as a mascot for cleaning up the environment. I believe I have also heard one person saying, in their review, that at least Bubsy 3D was playable, compared to his game.

Going off of the characterization mentioned before, I think Bubsy would rejoice at the idea of getting out of the disgraces, even if it means he loses his godhood. And if we also go off the idea of Awesome Possum harassing him, it could be that those calls might be what gets people's attention drawn to him, and his eventual fall into the disgraces. Meanwhile, Bubsy ends up moving up to the Fallen, or at least just get out of the Disgraces so he can die out with some dignity.

For a review of said game, here you go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpyICfshGVw

If you woudl like me to explain more, I can somewhat try to do so and explain why A.P. might be a better candidate.

edited 1st May '14 2:44:33 AM by LordTyph

HotmanX32 Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
krimzonflygon2 Since: Jul, 2013
#345: May 1st 2014 at 12:57:58 PM

@ Hotman

They're well worth the price of admission. All of them are fantastic games, and with a few exceptions they're standalone, so you can start anywhere. Of course, playing them all can give extra insight, as they ARE linked on different levels. But it's not like you have to play 1-3 before you can understand 4.

On the topic of Megaten IV, I'd actually suggest that as a good entry point: not only is it user-friendly enough for a new player of Megaten to get into, but the storyline offers a rather good balance between Law and Chaos. It does a good job of making it so one isn't better than the other, and their respective endings show the prize you gain and the price you pay very well.

I don't mean to toot my own horn but...well, as you yourself said, I guess I AM the local Megaten Expert.grin

magnum12 Since: Aug, 2009
#346: May 1st 2014 at 3:40:40 PM

I mainly played the persona series (more specifically 3 and 4). Always heard that SMT can be summarized as Lawful Evil vs Chaotic Evil vs Neutral Good / True Neutral and that the closest thing to good endings is always the neutral ending. Mainly just know the key twists, namely the MEH in SMT 2.

Anyways, my expertise in all this is Mega Man, Disgaea, When They Cry, and 40k.

edited 1st May '14 3:41:32 PM by magnum12

LordTyph Since: Mar, 2011
#347: May 1st 2014 at 4:16:43 PM

Hey, thought of something. Since Dangan Ronpa got released stateside due to an LP of the game bringing attention to it, do you think that there should be a noted alliance between The Runaway Guys, gods of Let's Plays, and the Dangan Ronpa characters already on here? Except for Monokuma, of course.

I'm also curious on the idea of there being a god for Blind Runs and stuff like that, personally. Would a position like that work out at all? Because I have an idea for someone who could fill that position.

krimzonflygon2 Since: Jul, 2013
#348: May 1st 2014 at 4:27:22 PM

@ Magnum

Lawful Evil Vs Chaotic Evil was really SMT I. It got a lot more complicated as time went on.

Take SMT IV for example: The Law ending has you destroy Tokyo and everyone in it (including yourself), but the Kingdom Of Mikado will know genuine peace forever, now that there's nothing to go against God's will. It's even stated that the brutal caste system has been done away with.

The Chaos ending has Tokyo and Mikado pretty much merged, with the barrier (Naraku) more or less a moot point by now. Demons are overrunning everything and there's fire as far as the eye can see, but it's outright stated that Flynn will become king and calm everything down: it's more-or-less the post-upheaval chaos that's bound to settle down eventually.

Both are nasty, but at the same time they can't be considered outright 'bad': there's good in both of them depending on your morality. Of course, Neutral is the best ending, but I can't say either of the other ones are glorified Game Overs (that 'honor' goes to the Nothingness ending).

It's even MORE level-handed in Devil Survivor, especially Overclocked: both Law and Chaos are genuinely happy endings.

ChrisX ..... from ..... Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Singularity
.....
#349: May 1st 2014 at 6:00:30 PM

Back to more DOTA-LOL stuffs I'd like to say one thing.

Was it really necessary that Yurnero/Juggernaut be a follower of Garen for Spin Attack? I can say for these reasons, even if I acknowledge that Garen pretty much inspires the Spin2Win meme, which kinda fits him:

  • Juggernaut came first. He's been doing spinning attacks for a bit long time than Garen has ever did.
  • Blade Fury isn't exactly the thing Juggernaut is most feared for. In fact, it phases out in usefulness late-game (in case of Garen, yes, you probably would be using his Judgment a lot so it does make sense). On the other hand... He's more feared with the fact that he can solo a tower with a Healing Ward nearby, he comes with free crits, and then there's his Omnislash, which is pretty much a guaranteed death if you're not with a nearby creep, or on high levels, multiple heroes will die in one use.

Well, also seeing that Juggernaut is also one of DOTA's more popular heroes these days, I am tempted to elevate him to a new position... But no, I can't find other suiting tropes and I don't think he deserves to take over Garen. But... anyone mind if we pull Juggernaut out from Garen's follower?

magnum12 Since: Aug, 2009
#350: May 1st 2014 at 10:06:39 PM

Questioning Alexander Anderson's alleigance to GUAL, More of a question of which angels he would have better company with. Nipponverse angels are much closer in morality to the God Alexander believes in. They're mostly good leaning strongly towards law (they don't exactly like chaos either) though they have their flaws, overzealotry being the chief one. They also treat humans MUCH better than SMT ones do (they still think they're superior to humans but have very strict rules on interacting with them, chief among them being harming humans is a big time no-no unless absolutely nessecary). Contrast with the view that murdering humans just for reading manga is a-okay (IIRC this is why one of the antagonists of IV is trying to kill someone).

This brings up questions that complicate relations with Sanguinus given certain bits of 40k lore.

1. The Emperor NEVER wanted to be worshipped. Sangunius never worshipped him either.

2. Blood Angels don't turn people. Being "turned" requires the aspiring space marine to have Sangunius' blood in them (this is part of the Blood Angels complete transformation process). Only Space Marines have the constitution to survive the event.

3. Blood Angels despite being vampires are actually quite safe to be around, as long as they remain calm (it ain't easy to panic a space marine) and their chapter's curse "Black Rage" doesn't overtake them

Bringing up a question about just how potentially complicated Laharl's relation ship with the Sisterhood is. One one hand, he believes in "might makes right" and his sympathies would be with Homura, albeit for a VERY sympathetic reason. That one being a certain trauma he suffered involving the death of his mother when he was (biologically, not chronologically) 4 years old. On the other hand, one of his closest friends (one that incidentally is very much like his mother in personality) is a member of the Sisterhood and his motive for siding with the Rebellion is for said friend.

Come to think of it, while he wouldn't hate Madoka, he'd be very uncomfortable around her. Her self-sacrificing nature is one of those things that would be very good (unintentionally) at reopening Laharl's emotional wounds.

edited 1st May '14 10:33:53 PM by magnum12


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