Incredibles 2

The movie isn't as good as the first but is still pretty great

Something I realize I like about this movie compared to others is that there is absolutely no parental drama surrounding Violet’s right to date. She decides to date a guy in class, and her parents are totally cool with it and help her along the way. The only caution lectures Violet gets are mostly just her parents lightly teasing because they trust her to be responsible. There’s no overprotectiveness, no belittling of Violet as too young, no contrived prejudice toward “the new guy”, just “okay, neat, have a fun date.”

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jun 29th 2018 at 10:19:28 AM

One of the best things about Edna's scenes is her line "proper parenting is a heroic endeavor" because that sums up the very premise of The Incredibles. It's not just a bunch of superhero nonsense but equating superheroics and superpowers with the responsibilities as a parent and as a family.

Syndrome worked extremely well as a villain because his plan (manipulate bored heroes out of retirement), his ultimate goal (become a hero to gratify his pride) and motivation (was dismissed by Bob for not having powers) all ties into that central theme. And Bob is only able to defeat Omnidroid X by working with his family.

That is ultimately where Screenslaver failed as a villain. They end up as a generic comic book villain with an evil plan instead of something that ties into the family drama.

Yeah. That’s kinda frustrating to me because Evelyn is arguably a more believable version of Lex Luthor. She has the same belief that superhuman icons regress society rather than advance it, but more attached to all superheroes rather than only Superman and not inexplicably any of the other metahumans just as powerful as him. She has a more understandable reason for hating supers, while Luthor appears to hate Superman simply from seeing him (or making him bald??) Evelyn also has a much sounder plan for ensuring superheroes’ permanent banishment, while Luthor’s schemes at worst tend to be fire-and-forget-monsters.

So there’s potential there for a real strong heavyweight villain since Luthor has held his own for so long, but either the problem was that the story focused too much on the family, or not enough.

@Tuckerscreator

Depends what version of Luthor we're talking about here since what you said hasn't been his characterization in DECADES since the Silver Age. His whole beef with Superman isn't so much that he regresses humanity(Supes is well aware of this being a factor at play so he takes precautions to not do EVERYTHING for humanity), but his own ego and messianic complex. Before Superman, he was the most "respected" and "loved" man in Metropolis, but after him, people had become more vocal in their distaste for him and his actions. Combine this with his messianic complex and the whole thing is that he HATES Superman because he WANTS to be Superman. The power, adulation, respect, and most of all, the control he'd have from all if the above. One of the last stories before the Flashpoint Reboot went more into this.

Back on topic, stuff like that is why I'd like a dedicated series instead of movies since those can afford to do more detailed stories and we wouldn't have to wait another 14 years for the next one.

I wouldn't say that’s only Silver Age. There’s a number of more recent depictions of Luthor that have him be immediately prejudiced and resentful of Superman before Sup’s driven away any admiration and public respect from Luthor. Secret Origin, New 52, Red Son (kind of?)

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jun 30th 2018 at 1:36:57 AM

I think it does help that Superman, being based in Metropolis, is the one who he interacts with most often.

Also, if Superman is the first real superhuman in the setting (not always the case, but I think it's a good idea), then it makes sense for him to be the one that Lex latches onto.

The key thing, of course, is that from day one Superman tends to set himself up in opposition to Luthor. At its best, its a very personal and long-lasting hatred.

Edited by KarkatTheDalek on Jun 29th 2018 at 6:59:21 AM

Luthor's motivations are pretty much always dependent upon the writer, within certain parameters. My opinion has been that his genuine motivation is, as Grant Morrison put forth in All Star Superman simply that if not for Superman he'd be running the place. The whole "superhumans regress human advancement" and "aliens are dangerous to humanity" are just lines he tells himself and/or others to justify his actions and make himself more sympathetic to the public. It'd be an effective spin strategy; heaven knows enough fans have bought it

The movie only debuted in my country last week, and I watched it today. I liked it! I was worried they'd depict Bob as your common Bumbling Dad, but I was pleasantly surprised with what they did in the movie. He struggled, but he wasn't a complete moron, and he was a positive father figure. And he's still having his midlife crisis too! Although I did think he was a tad bit too salty with people insinuating he might not be the best, it doesn't detract from the story. By which I mean, it doesn't create evitable drama, and from the very beginning he sees it's unhealthy, and fights against it (and Helen is annoyed but supportive, even if snarky, as she was in her Elastigirl days). It doesn't help Helen succeeded at doing what was his last, and perhaps greatest, failure. Ouch. Way to rub salt on the wound. That secondary superhero also got the best out of him until Helen helped. Ouch x2 Combo

The secondary superheroes were... weird. Kinda off-putting, even? Oh, and I thought they were building up to a point where most if not all of the family would be under the Mindslaver's control, only for Jack-Jack to beam through the mind control goggles and break free. I'm honestly surprised that didn't happen.

I find it very interesting the villain's fate compared to Syndrome's. For all we know, Syndrome's dead. But this time, the Mindslaver was arrested, and they made a big scene out of saving her life.

Does anyone have a link to where I could listen to the heroes' theme songs online?

Yeah, apparently that's a remnant of a subplot where they were going to be failure auditionees in a Terrible Interviewees Montage, but then that portion of the plot was replaced but their designs not updated. For the better, arguably, as it was pointed out making fun of "loser powers" runs counter to a series about how society shouldn't put down unique talents.

I gotta say I did like their superpowers. I just disliked their designs. They were genuinely off-putting.

That reminds me. I forgot to mention: once again the villain is a mad scientist engineer. It's an annoying theme that persisted from the first movie.

I too was weirded out by how they look. They are arguably more stylized than the actual main characters, too stylized really.

Also when I looked at them I end up being reminded of & missing the hero’s from the first movie like the ones shown during the Kronos scene & I then get sad because I remember they were all horribly murdered.

Speaking of which, the heroes the rich dude's father had made phones to call them directly were killed by Syndrome, weren't they? Or am I making stuff up?

Gazerbeam was killed by Syndrome. Fyronic we didn't see his fate. He's not seen in the montage of supers Syndrome killed, unless it was during a part where the camera was looking at Bob and not at the screen. Weirdly, he's not in the DVD extra superhero files either, but he is briefly mentioned during the first film's climax when Syndrome is briefly mistaken for him.

I recognized Gazerbeam, but not Fyronic. Maybe there's something about him in the DVD extras of the original movie.

Near the end of the first film, a woman in the crowd mistakes Syndrome for Fironic. Right before he says "No, no, I'm a new superhero!" As far as I can tell, there's no other information about him.

io9 Posts some nice fanart for Frozone and his family

https://io9.gizmodo.com/frozones-wife-and-kids-come-to-life-in-this-incredibles-1827367689

Seen this art around a couple of times and it’s pretty cute. Certainly could carry a movie.

Just saw this. Thought the first one was better, but this one was pretty solid too. I was somewhat bummed by how underused Dash was, how Screenslaver's speech about how society prefers to watch rather than to act went basically unaddressed, and how neither Bomb Voyage nor Underminer are fully addressed.

I guess what I'm saying is CONSIDER YOURSELVES UNDERMINED!

Edited by Gaon on Jul 8th 2018 at 8:05:22 AM

Underminer was boasting about taking over the world and enslaving everyone under his rule ..... when in reality all he wanted to do was rob a bank. A bit of a letdown, but you could chalk that up to the Underminer just being boastful because he's arrogant and that there's really no weight or truth to his speech.

Edited by kyun on Jul 8th 2018 at 8:28:29 AM

I was bummed about his change of motivation, too. I felt the "declare war on the surface world" was way cooler.

Edited by Gaon on Jul 8th 2018 at 8:35:28 AM

Well, you need money to fight a war. One doesn't rule out the other.

The whole thing was super Silver Age, right down to the grandiose villain with lofty declarations but little ambition, so I loved it.

I figure Bomb Voyage either died or was arrested. He's just a normal human after all.

It's interesting, because the fake Screenslaver's supposed motives really aren't that different from Evelyn's. Both of them believe that superheroes are driving civilians to apathy. It's just that neither of them are ever really ideologically challenged.