Duplicate Trope: The Nameless

Just for clarity's sake, where would examples of characters who used to have a name, but explicitly abandoned it for one reason or another (e.g. to express their shame at a personal failure of monumental proportions) and at most is known by a nickname or epithet that someone else gave them? (See "Scar" from Fullmetal Alchemist, whose nickname comes from the cross-shaped scar on his face. It's a fact that he used to have an actual name, but it's never revealed to us, and anyone who could've known are either explicitly dead [his older brother] or implied to be so [his family and friends].)

Do Not Call Me "Paul"?

Well, that does apply to the "discard original name", but usually the trope has the character adopt a new one as well. Scar from FMA doesn't do that; "Scar" is just a convenient moniker coined by his Amestrian enemies for identification purposes (before it's known that he has discarded his name and that there's no known way of tracing back his history beyond his own accounts, he's only known as "the man with the scarred face" or something similar) since he refuses to adopt an actual name, and similarly he answers to said moniker simply out of convenience.

that'd be Appropriated Appellation

No, Appropriated Appellation is when the character deliberately takes the nickname/insult as his actual name. Scar does not do that; he more or less shrugs and tells the other characters to call him however they like, it doesn't really matter to him. He answers to "Scar" because recognizes that it's the designation they've assigned to him in lieu of a proper name; it's like using "John Doe" in legal terminology to designate a person whose identity is unknown at the time (e.g. a criminal who has yet to be identified but whose existence has been verified).

So... I guess what I'm trying to ask: Does The Nameless (as it's going to be defined following this TRS' conclusion) and/or the other tropes mentioned/proposed as part of the solution to the problems at hand apply to such examples?

edited 7th Sep '16 10:45:44 AM by MarqFJA

splitting hairs.

John Doe is Appropriated Appellation too. ;)

... No, its usage in legal cases (in absentia, if that wasn't clear) is not that trope. Appropriated Appellation could only apply if, say, the criminal decided to adopt "John Doe" as his primary identity after learning of its use to designate him in legal proceedings.

why can't it count "ppl giving someone a referral/nickname because they don't know their actual name"?

Are you looking for Meaningful Rename?

Either way, I think its time to put the Sandbox tropes through YKTTW, since it looks like no one managed to. Any objections?

No objections; I'll start reviewing this thread and building drafts later tonight.

No, because Meaningful Rename is about adopting a new real/legal name for yourself; that's very different from "I've abandoned my name because [X]. For the sake of convenience, however, you can call me whatever you want as long as it's not an obvious insult. And no, I don't care if it doesn't sound remotely like a real name, or if you use one 'name' and that other group uses a totally different one."

For the purposes of our tropes, I think we can resolve Scar (and similar situations) by saying it's two tropes getting used at the same time. Trope A is Meaningful Rename; they abandon their old name/identity, and Trope B is "did not give themselves a name" (which may be Name Ungiven). The fact that they may answer to a new name isn't important; it's that they refuse to take a name after discarding the old one. It's the same process as Never Had A Name getting a Meaningful Rename in reverse.

Anyway; update! New TLP threads made:

• https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/discussion.php?id=40hei1z1krtp6se2u4e8um9q (Not started by me; ~Broken Eye seems to have independently come to the conclusion that "character is named something to reflect their lack of a name" was a trope we needed on their own)
• https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/discussion.php?id=jtm9c5qax6927jxa53ckqgfb (character never had a name In-Universe)
• https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/discussion.php?id=96qe6iwe6qjiamylzkjl0nbj (character doesn't recall their own name)
• https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/discussion.php?id=xdkpr3ggi7zgt6x1rq12vcvk (character refuses to share their name)

Couldn't sleep; wrote up a sandbox for No Name Given to condense the information based on the discussion here.

The Nameless examples have been moved to every one of the TRS threads. Should it get swapped out with the Sandbox now?

Fairly new to this, so hopefully I can be helpful and avoid stepping on too many toes.

• No Name Given- I'd say this should be renamed The Nameless and made the supertrope. This can cover all of the following tropes, as well as characters whose names are never stated in the work, but aren't necessarily suggested not to have them or not know them.
• Refusal To Share Name- I'd say the description of this is closer to what the term 'No Name Given' would indicate. They have a name— they're just not giving it.
• Name Is Ungiven- Not Given A Name, maybe?
• Somebody Named Nobody- I think there are enough examples that this is worth having. Even if there's a fair amount of overlap, the choice to name a character after their lack of a name or identity can be significant on the part of both the author and/or the character.
• Lost Their Name- I think Forgotten Name is more functional, maybe with Lost Name as a redirect?

Actually, I think it's more of a Sister Trope to Meaningful Rename, because it only shares one of the two critical elements to said trope. Maybe we should make an Abandoned Their Name / Nameless By Choice trope for such examples?

edited 14th Dec '16 11:30:17 AM by MarqFJA

I've come across a couple. So far I've been adding them under the "loss of name/identity" trope and calling them downplayed examples (since they are trying to lose the identity, even if they don't have amnesia). Perhaps inconsistent with my previous post, but that's how the examples read when I was editing them.

edited 14th Dec '16 4:05:19 PM by crazysamaritan

How do people feel about No Name Given (None of a character's name is used within the work, although they presumably have one) being declared supertrope to the following:

• Last-Name Basis — A character's personal name is never used in the work, although they presumably have one.
• Only One Name — A character has one name, and it operates as both personal and family name.
• Unnamed Parent — A parent (or other adult) whose name is based on their relationship to the younger main character.

Good. Don't forget Everyone Calls Him "Barkeep" and Only Known by Their Nickname.

I had missed that Everybody Calls Him "Barkeep" is already a subtrope of No Name Given. Thanks for mentioning it. Only Known by Their Nickname is slightly misleading, as it covers situations where the audience knows the character's name, but the nickname is used instead. Like Margaret "Hot Lips" Houlihan from M*A*S*H; constantly called "Hot Lips" (even her Love Interest would forget and call her that instead) during most of the show's run despite it being known from the first episode.

Edit: I keep forgetting it's Him not Them.

edited 19th Jan '17 10:12:16 AM by crazysamaritan

And Spell My Name with a Blank.

BTW how would Hello, [Insert Name Here] relate to The Nameless as a whole?

Spell My Name with a Blank is about [redacted], not about using character's names within a work. Hello, [Insert Name Here] is the trope for interactive media allowing the audience/player to determine names. Overall, the common thread is Naming Conventions, not The Nameless.

@68: ... Er, Last-Name Basis isn't when the character only has their surname revealed; it's when the character is always referred to by their surname in-story, even if the given name is canonically known (the description mentions the eponymous character of House, whose first name is known to be "Greg"), and often even when you'd think referring to them with their first name would be more logical (again, from House, even after Wilson dates Amber, she still refers to him by his surname).

edited 19th Jan '17 2:19:35 PM by MarqFJA

Last-Name Basis can also be used to conceal someone's first name from the audience. It's not limited to your usage.

But it is a reasonable argument for exclusion from The Nameless subtropes. Should we collect examples like Last-Name Basis and Only Known by Their Nickname under a "see also", then?