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unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#2226: Feb 11th 2019 at 4:14:29 AM

I mean, I increasingly feel the series will and would never do the light-based enemy thing, and also it's actually implied at one point that not only was there no split of the keyblade wielders, but Eraqus is descended from Brain and is part of some thing to rewrite the Master's program or something.

EDIT: Also, like.

...I broadly am against adding more lore and metaphysics to this series, in fanworks, because almost every bit of lore or universe mechanics ever added has usually consistently been mostly pretty bad in the actual story.

So, with that stance on the lore, the Kairi and princess darkness thing is.

It honestly made me roll my eyes, reading it, sorry.

Edited by unnoun on Feb 11th 2019 at 9:28:06 AM

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#2227: Feb 11th 2019 at 6:33:40 AM

I see. So do you think I should just drop the whole idea, then?

Oh God! Natural light!
Dorked Since: Dec, 2012
#2228: Feb 11th 2019 at 7:05:52 AM

Personally, I don't think having light-based antagonists is the worst thing, if only because, if done well, it could be a refreshing spin on the usual darkness = eeeeeevil the series has (mostly) stuck with?

With some exceptions like Riku.

I'm not sure about new enemies/creatures, but I don't think playing with the idea of an ideology of light being taken to uncomfortable/more malicious extremes is wrong. New lore/metaphysics are trickier, but I definitely think there's room for people to at least try? Though I'd say try not to complicate the lore too much.

...but KH has already done that plenty of times. I still don't like how complicated KH 3 D's time travel is. All that stuff about abandoning the body, etc, etc, and then it's not really kept consistent.

Meanwhile, I thiiink I got things figured out for BEN. Ish. A friend suggested a rather humorous idea that since he's a robot, the Heartless can't really do much with him overall and proposed the idea of his introduction involving him being oddly casual while there's a swarm of VERY dangerous Heartless the baddies have sent out to scout for TP heroes, etc, since Riku's bailed so they can't just use him to track the others.

But his knowledge of how the planet works, even if incomplete, would make him a good bargaining chip and Sora and Jim could totally try and put the baddies at a stalemate while they try to get Riku back (Xigbar's nabbed him so they can use his Keyblade to force the map open). Jim and Sora could even try and use Silver as part of the bargaining (shoot him in the leg with a blaster, etc), but then the rest of the pirates and Xigbar just up and turn on Silver because at this point, Xigbar's more or less asserted himself as top dog.

This might be a good time for Kairi/Donald/Goofy, Amelia, and Doppler to pull a HEROIC rescue as the cloaked Gummi Ship bursts into view and takes the pirates by surprise? But Xigbar has his space/gravity powers, plus the baddies have the legacy, so this could lead to either a ship battle or the Highwind just ends up hecking crashing (possibly into the legacy), which would tie into my Arendelle plans well enough...

Also, if I do this whole traitor + surprise rescue gone awry angle, do I save it for when they're IN the planet or just before they go inside? Hm, hm, hm...

As a side note, the new chapter is finally up and the hiatus is over! Finally got to that reveal with Xemnas that I've been sitting on for like seven years. Plus having a Disney baddy recruited to the Org is gonna be fun, too.

My Fanfiction Account | Kingdom Hearts: The Antipode series
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#2229: Feb 11th 2019 at 8:21:10 AM

I mean, I suppose my thing is that...isn’t the whole point of fan fiction to do things that don’t happen in canon? I mean, I don’t want to just ignore large swathes of canon, but I do think that there’s merit in having light-based enemies just to see what they’d look like? Plus, I actually did check the Secret Reports, and I really don’t think anything I’ve proposed is explicitly contradicted? I’m certainly stretching things, sure, but I think I’m staying within the boundaries. I’d certainly be willing to hear suggestions for an alternative to rogue Keyblade wielders?

And yes, I do understand the caution around new lore, but I don’t think I’d make it too intrusive or even all that complicated? Really, all I want to do is tell my own Kingdom Hearts story without having to solely rely on whatever vague hints Nomura’s been leaving - I want to use my own ideas. I don’t want to sound like I’m whining, but...is that really so wrong?

Oh God! Natural light!
Dorked Since: Dec, 2012
#2230: Feb 11th 2019 at 8:39:37 AM

Yeah, that's the thing. Fanworks should be able to have fun! I do think it's good to respect the source material, but that shouldn't limit the imagination entirely. As long as your ideas are well executed and consistent, I personally don't see the harm in it.

Plus, what-if scenarios exist for a reason. So what's the harm in exploring possible rifts between factions in the past? Or Kairi grappling with suddenly having darkness in her heart.

Another thing is that KH is a canon that routinely Josses itself, and the fact is, you (general you) can't be expected to radically alter plans every time Nomura throws another curve ball.}

It's why I've stuck to my guns with Xemnas in my work. I had his entire schtick planned out for ages and then KH 3 D was like "eyyy, so..." So I just adapted my plans, worked out a solution for him to be who he is while still acknowledging what the Organization's goal was supposed to be before Terra threw a wrench in things while doing his own scheming. (Lack of heart does still have an impact.)

tl;dr: I think finding a middle ground is possible, if nothing else! My one advice is just to make sure you have your internal consistency planned out for any new lorebits.

My Fanfiction Account | Kingdom Hearts: The Antipode series
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#2231: Feb 11th 2019 at 9:39:57 AM

I certainly wouldn't do the idea, at least, personally.

And for light enemies. I think it could happen in isolation but not an masse.

Like, it's.

I just don't know if I like it, because I'm not sure how much it's worth doing.

I've heard people propose it, and at first I might have thought it could be cool, but the more I think about it, the more that I don't. I just. The idea isn't as cool as it sounds, in itself.

As it is, like. The best parts of KH are the small character moments, and increasingly the only function the plot serves is facilitating those.

...Honestly. The change I would most want to make to the lore bits is just hacking a good chunk of them out.

...Hngh.

Then again, what I would do might be worse. Because I'm the worst.

...One of the problems with the mechanics is when they're inconsistent thematically, which is annoying.

Seven and 13 keys, from the clashes, with the seven looking like Kingdom Key and 13 like Kingdom Key D is what I want.

I am honestly considering All the Guardians getting replica bodies when they die and that's fun.

Because Xion and Roxas clashed, and formed a key from each of them, I almost wanna have her keybladeless. Have that be a thing. I have some ideas there.

Then there's.

...Ooh.

Oh my god.

Oh. I have to share this before I forget.

The reason I'm giving all these details now is.

I realized, playing KH 3, that spoilers are worthless without execution and implementation.

Nobody cares about my fanfiction, given how few hits and comments I have, and I want to get all my ideas out or I'll lose them.

Sora, fighting Xehanort.

Sora dives into Terranort.

While Sora is inside the dive, his body goes motionless and limp, asleep on his feet, and Xehanort reveals to Lingering Will, the Guardian and Xion that he doesn't even care how the fight inside himself goes, either way that's a clash.

So. Xehanort loses the inner Awakening Battle, everything seems fine, Sora and co. say goodbye to Terra and Eraqus and all start rising out of the dive, Sora's heart leaves Terra's body and when we get to reality in the graveyard, Xion and the Lingering Will are beaten on the ground, and the Guardian is fading away, sorta melting into Terra, Xehanort is in Sora's body and No Name cleaves through Sora's floating heart just as it departs Terra, shattering Sora's whole heart into shards, and the last thing we see is the last Kingdom Key emerge from Sora's heart as the last Kingdom Key D emerges from the Guardian as it melts back into Terra. 7/13.

Well, okay, no, the last thing is the X-Blade, obviously. I want it to be a Kingdom Key and Kingdom Key D instead of just two Kingdom Keys, honestly. It'd be asymmetrical, but fuck it, it can't look any uglier than it does already.

Then The Final World as you do.

In Scala Ad Caelum, phase one revolves around rescuing and Saving the keys, as many as possible.

All the while the thirteen seekers and the keys of light themselves are attacking, and Sora has to sorta avoid them to get to his friends. Even though his friends are attacking him. I'm picturing it as if the attackers are projections. And around the city are cores or hubs or Nexuses or. Hearts.

The keys and Seekers that get rescued join and start helping, the ones they dive into but can't get like Lauriam stay active, but hang back and stop attacking.

Sora finds he can't summon the keyblade, but now Sora can turn Goofy's shield into a keyblade and Donald's staff into one too.

If a keyblade can turn into a shield and a staff, obviously the other way would work too, right? :p

They find Young Xehanort, and then another Young Xehanort shows up and tells Sora all about the Power of Waking, and how dumb this all is.

Then, Sora-Xehanort shows up, and the next phase is fighting him until they can dive into Sora.

Shenanigans and eventually Sora saves and recovers himself and can use a keyblade again.

...This might be a little overcomplicated, admittedly, because I suck and am a hypocrite.

We end with 7 of darkness, 13 of light. And it ends with Sora stealing the X-Blade and delivering the final blow with it.

Edited by unnoun on Feb 11th 2019 at 12:42:02 PM

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#2232: Feb 11th 2019 at 10:30:05 AM

I’ll admit, I’m having trouble following all that, yeah. It might be more clear if there was more context though, so that’s not a huge deal.

If the princess darkness thing isn’t your thing, that’s fine - it’s mostly there to let Kairi fight herself as a final boss, I suppose? I just thought it was an interesting idea - if they aren’t born with hearts filled with light, then where does that darkness go?

The light enemies, I do think would be an aberration - like, they’d have like sort of anti-Heartless things, but they’re aren’t too many of them and are explicitly artificial creations that can’t form naturally in the Realm of Light. That’s the whole point of them - they try to force the world to conform to their vision of reality.

Now, if it sounded like I was exclusively focused on lore stuff, that was not my intention - I just wanted to lay out the basic set-up for the conflict. I have actually been thinking about the character relationships between the two factions and our heroes.

Oh God! Natural light!
Dorked Since: Dec, 2012
#2233: Feb 11th 2019 at 11:45:04 AM

For what it's worth, I didn't get that impression? Re: lore focus only. And I mean, it DOES beg the question what happens to a Po H who has passed on her power in terms of the make up of her heart.

What would that even be like? There's some interesting stuff to explore there.

Also, it just occurred to me that. BEN is likely gonna end up stranded in Arendelle with everyone. BEN... could meet Olaf. And that is a terrifying thought indeed. I'm not sure the universe is ready for two comedy relief characters sharing the same scene.

On the other hand, the idea of Xion befriending Olaf while all the other heroes are off doing their thing is also tempting. I feel like the poor girl's been through so much that having her make a snowman friend would be really sweet. Kinda makes me think of her friendship with Pluto in the manga, which is also super wholesome.

My Fanfiction Account | Kingdom Hearts: The Antipode series
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#2234: Feb 11th 2019 at 12:00:42 PM

I was thinking they don’t LOSE the light in their Heart, per se, but they’re not considered...special? Like, in metaphysical terms or whatever?

Though I do think that the power would definitely pass on upon their death. One idea I had with a friend was if, say, Padme was one of the Lights, then upon her death, Leia would inherit the power.

I mean, one thing I like about fanfiction (which I hope they do more of in the next game), is that it doesn’t have to be Sora who travels to the worlds. For example, I think that Coco would be a good choice for the world, and while you could have fun there with Sora, I think you could have something really special if it was, say, Xion.

Oh God! Natural light!
Dorked Since: Dec, 2012
#2235: Feb 11th 2019 at 12:07:33 PM

That's actually something I've dabbled with a fair bit in Antipode! Particularly in The Year between, where some worlds were focused on Riku Replica and Namine, others were focus on Kairi, others still on Aqua and Sora.

I think having some worlds focused on separate characters allows for a lot more fun and unique character dynamics. It's something I honestly wish KH 3 had done, too, but from what I understand, they had a ton of stupid restrictions placed upon them.

Passing on the power after death makes sense, though, as does their hearts still remaining primarily light, even with them no longer being "special".

My Fanfiction Account | Kingdom Hearts: The Antipode series
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#2236: Feb 11th 2019 at 1:14:45 PM

Chapter update! Finally!

...The "fucktoys" thing is a bit of a plothole, in hindsight, what with the Replica at the time only having combat data and personality not Riku's memories.

I guess Riku being a bisexual disaster could be part of his fighting style though? *shrugs*

Riku in KH 1 and Repliku are, the worst, actually.

At first.

EDIT: I keep bouncing around the idea of Aqua meeting Della Duck in the Realm of Darkness.

My id even ships them a little.

Is that what you people want from me? Do I need to write a femslash fic about the blue anime girl and the duck?

Edited by unnoun on Feb 12th 2019 at 5:54:30 AM

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#2237: Feb 13th 2019 at 5:09:26 AM

Having decided to use and promise An Extremely Goofy Movie and Ducktales, I then proceeded to have no fucking idea what the actual damn plot should be.

All I knew was I wanted the dance scene, and Della going to (Inter)space on a Gummi Ship, and Three Gay Cabelleros.

Well, bi, but whatever.

...I feel like Heartless would make things worse, so. I'm, picturing a 100 Acre Woods minigame world, almost. Skateboarding.

And I don't know how to tie the two plots together or if they should be.

It's.

In some ways it's seeming more like a bunch of flashbacks Donald and Goofy are having with Sora and Kairi and Jiminy along for the ride. And somehow that's not satisfying because there isn't really a resolution. Certainly not for Donald.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#2238: Feb 13th 2019 at 5:35:08 AM

Is there maybe character growth that happened in the past that you could say made the people they are today?

Anyway, I’ve been thinking, and I think I actually should include Riku in the fic. I’m fine with not having Sora here, but it would be nice if Kairi actually did have an old friend to talk to, and their relationship hasn’t really been explored, so...

I do wonder - what do you guys think their friendship is like?

Oh God! Natural light!
Dorked Since: Dec, 2012
#2239: Feb 13th 2019 at 5:55:22 AM

My suggestion is to consider how the actions of the KH characters would influence the Disney plot. I think it's okay to derail things! It can lead to interesting outcomes, but I also understand the desire not to go too far off the rails.

Maybe see if you can work in a personal connection with the KH folks? Try to figure out things in the settings they can relate to in some fashion.

Also, as someone who has written Riku and Kairi EXTENSIVELY, I think there's a lot to play with. For one, Kairi is spunky, pretty sassy, and generally sorta plays this role of keeping the two boys from getting in over their heads during KH 1. This can create some nice chemistry with Riku, who can be rather snarky himself, all while post-KH 3 having grown into a position of responsibility and gained way more levelheadedness over his journeys.

Kairi is also the one who kept Riku from running off during KH 2, was able to see past his Ansemface, and is generally pretty supportive of him from what we see in 0.2? I'd also refer to the manga, which has them interacting more extensively (at least in KH 2).

Edited by Dorked on Feb 13th 2019 at 6:00:42 AM

My Fanfiction Account | Kingdom Hearts: The Antipode series
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#2240: Feb 13th 2019 at 6:01:40 AM

I mean.

Not to say what you should or have to do, but I will say what I plan to do.

I think I'm definitely more in the angst side of things than the fluff side, overall, because.

Like, one thing I do like in the novels is that I think it's interesting how they had Riku overheard the "let's take the raft and go just the two of us."

The problem I have with, like, Soriku shippers that bash Kairi is.

They aren't entirely wrong, they're just assholes.

And they can take the time to analyze the way Sora and Riku fucking blink in some scenes, even when their faces are unanimated flat pixelated textures, but don't have the decency to assume any deep thought was ever put into the animation or voice acting for Kairi in those same scenes.

Like "you've been thinking a lot lately, haven't you" and her awkward, uncomfortable "you're welcome" when Riku says "If not for you, I wouldn't have thought of any of this, Kairi thanks".

Like, I love the way she says "Riku has changed" and "Sora, don't ever change" a lot.

All of Which is to say that fucking hell do Riku and Kairi have a lot to talk about that they never do on-screen.

They need to apologize to each other and forgive each other.

The only one that did literally nothing wrong is Sora, and that's mostly because he's an idiot.

...As for what they would talk about in a more happy light.

I mean, in the manga they talk about Kingdom Hearts and the Organization and Nobodies. Kairi says Riku's too cynical, he thinks she's too trusting, which might be a jab at himself because literally everything Riku says then seems to be at least 50% self-loathing.

We need to rely on Shiro Amano and Tomoco Kanemaki because they're the only writers that can produce good or decent official content anymore for this fucking hell franchise.

generally sorta plays this role of keeping the two boys from getting in over their heads during KH 1

I disagree, because after jumping off a balcony into a pool of heartless while keybladeless, she is literally not the sensible one.

Sora collects the provisions and building materials and brings them to her, and with "you're as lazy as he is" telling the other two what to get might be all she did.

In the manga, it's said that she reminds people of Sora, and.

The hill I am willing to die on is that Kairi is as much of a Sora as Ven is.

Edited by unnoun on Feb 13th 2019 at 9:09:18 AM

TooManyIdeas Magical Princess From Another Dimension from Twilight Town (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: A gay little love melody
Magical Princess From Another Dimension
#2241: Feb 13th 2019 at 6:13:34 AM

Really regretting writing a fic about Xion coming to grips with Isa/Saix being back. The amount of people pouring out of the woodwork to defend Isa has been... disturbing. Especially as someone who has been through abuse.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#2242: Feb 13th 2019 at 6:21:47 AM

[up] You're not wrong.

...But.

...Like, I think the implication that Saïx masterminded her and everyone's resurrection, and the thing where she's partnered up with and copies him and his powers at first is.

home is a fic I like, and one of the details I like best is Saïx teaching Xion how to kill him.

It's.

I don't entirely know.

You're right that it's fucked up, and probably bad and a bad decision.

...Like, I'll be just as upset as you if Naminé ever forgives Lauriam or Elrena, so I'm being a hypocrite right now, sorry.

My suggestion is to consider how the actions of the KH characters would influence the Disney plot. I think it's okay to derail things! It can lead to interesting outcomes, but I also understand the desire not to go too far off the rails.

Maybe see if you can work in a personal connection with the KH folks? Try to figure out things in the settings they can relate to in some fashion.

The issue is, An Extremely Goofy Movie and Della's disappearance are memory worlds in Castle Oblivion, aka things that have already happened to Donald and Goofy.

Diverging doesn't entirely make sense.

Granted, the other memory worlds diverge and that doesn't make sense either, but.

TooManyIdeas Magical Princess From Another Dimension from Twilight Town (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: A gay little love melody
Magical Princess From Another Dimension
#2243: Feb 13th 2019 at 6:31:02 AM

[up]See, like... I mean first of all, I didn't really get that implication? Like, it was not communicated effectively at all imo. Nothing in this series ever is, but it's especially noticeable here.

Another thing is that again, I've been abused, and... forgiveness isn't that quick. It can come, but it takes a lot of time, and it takes a genuine effort on the former abuser's part. Effort which the abused has every right to reject. And even if it does come, forgiving is not forgetting. "Useless puppet" is never going to leave Xion's head. Ever.

This isn't really an attack on you, I want to make clear, since you clearly get me. I just found myself kind of betrayed seeing Xion not even show slight discomfort at her abuser showing up in the only place she ever felt safe for that whole year. So the people coming out to blame it all on Xehanort and abscond Isa of all sin has pissed me off.

That fic sounds good, I'll have to read it.

unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#2244: Feb 13th 2019 at 6:42:02 AM

I mean.

The implication is from the Secret Reports, mostly.

In-game, it's said that Vexen's co-conspirator is one of "The Chosen" and can't act against Xehanort directly, and Demyx is shocked and visibly shaken by who the co-conspirator is, because it's the last person Demyx expected. Vexen says to Demyx the conspirator is the one who recruited him, and in the Reports it's implied that that the conspirator is Saïx.

It's not spelled out at all, but there's some subtleties of Saïx's animation and voice acting that make it seem like he's not entirely being honest and sincere.

If nothing else, he already knows about Xion on the clock tower scene, when he brings up the three ice creams. That's. It makes him seem like more of a dick, not less, but it's still a clear example of him hiding something.

This series not communicating things effectively is.

I'll give it this much, when you're doing a conspiracy thriller or a murder mystery, like this thing with Vexen or the Strelitzia thing in KHUX, not spelling out who did what is. Sometimes effective? Potentially? In theory?

Letting the audience speculate.

Equally, though. There should actually be an answer, one that doesn't come out your ass last minute.

That's not how Agatha Christie would write it, but she's a hack.

I don't even have anything to say about the forgiveness and abuse stuff, you're right.

One act of redemption isn't enough, no matter how grandiose.

Like.

Vexen says "this was all his idea" to Demyx.

In his reports, Vexen says he got an offer in the Radiant Garden town square, from someone "younger than" Vexen who became Xemnas's (not Xehanort's) right hand. And after that Vexen says it's a chance to atone. So, logically, it had to have been the idea of whoever gave him the offer in the square. "He" so, not Larxene or Demyx.

We see Saïx in the Graveyard with Vexen, not the Radiant Garden square, and nothing in that scene indicates duplicity or lack of loyalty on Saïx's part, but there isn't any on Vexen's part either, and we know from the three ice creams in the clock tower scene that Saïx can lie out his ass.

Except Saïx has a smirk the whole time that is the closest thing to a smile he ever has. Ever.

Also, Saïx in the graveyard scene acts like Vexen is approaching them, and not like they just met in the Radiant Garden square, meaning either Xemnas's right hand wasn't Saïx, or Vexen and Saïx are both lying amd acting. And, again, we know from other scenes that lying and acting are things they can do.

It might be too subtle, admittedly.

...Also, Roxas seemingly glances past Xemnas in Saïx's direction when he says Xehanort isn't as good at winning over hearts and minds as he thinks. I think.

Roxas still beats the fucking shit out of Saïx's ass after that, so. I mean. That's a thing. I dunno what Roxas beating up Saïx anyway even while knowing his role is.

But still.

...Or it technically could be Xigbar, and all good feelings I have about the ending are gone forever, and Nomura should be shot.

I personally wouldn't describe as Xigbar as "Though younger than me, he'd risen to become Xemnas's right-hand." if only because I'd say Xehanort instead, and because Xigbar and Apprentice Xehanort were always buddy-buddy, since BBS, no "rising" involved. Rising through the ranks to be right hands to Xemnas specifically, not Master Xehanort or any of the others, sounds way more like a Saïx thing.

And, again, Saïx acts like Vexen approached them in the Graveyard, which means if he approached Vexen in the square earlier, then something doesn't add up. There's a missing piece. Lying and acting could/should be it.

If the writing is good it's Saïx, because that's what the hints most logically point to.

Edited by unnoun on Feb 13th 2019 at 10:15:44 AM

Dorked Since: Dec, 2012
#2245: Feb 13th 2019 at 7:16:00 AM

Honestly, like, even if that is the case with Saix, I definitely think it's more interesting to explore a slow road to forgiveness. It feels way more organic, and Xion has ABSOLUTELY no reason to just be okay with Isa showing up in a place so special and significant to her and her friends. I get having a happy ending, but I dunno. Exploring the bumps and issues in such a dynamic seems more rewarding to me.

Like, that's one thing I have to be super cautious of with Terra in Antipode, since Xemnas... has kind of done some pretty awful things, even if some of them were more passive/manipulative? So on one hand, he's not actively stirring as much crap as, say, Zexion, who was the one who organized the plan that destroyed Twilight Town after the heroes stopped using their Keyblades for several months (barring Keyholes). But Xemnas gave the okay. Did he ensure the mansion, and thus Riku, wouldn't get destroyed? Yes.

But he also threatened and blackmailed and manipulated Riku Replica, Roxas, and Namine, making Namine provide cards for Rep's mission to C.O. to tap into some of his worst fears to get him "back on track," has allowed the Organization to use the sigil Ansem So D scarred into Riku at the end of The Year Between to intentionally instill a sense of fear/powerlessness in him (plus the convenience of finding out the heroes' plans), among other terrible deeds. Not without reason, but reasons don't make misdeeds automatically acceptable.

He did intervene on Riku's behalf when it became clear Ansem So D was planning to try to take him as a vessel again, has ensured that he and Aqua are left alive, and has been destroying the Xehanort plan from the inside, but his own plans are still messed up, and while his descent into the main antagonist role is one that's pretty tragic and I can't wait to share it... he's still an antagonist. The length's he's going to to achieve his end goal are ruthless, and his identity can't change that.

Which I think is gonna complicate matters because Aqua and Ven both love Terra dearly, and knowing he's become this twisted Nobody who, while certainly not Xehanort and actively sabotaging Xehanort's plans, is still committing other atrocities... It's gonna sting. A lot. Especially for Ven.

But I think it's fun to explore the moral and emotional complications that come with these kinda things. It's a juicy source of character conflict. So I guess what I'm trying to say is... yeah, I'm all for fanfics that don't absolve Saix of all the blame. Or any other villainous characters, like Marluxia. Or hell, even Di Z, who was AWFUL to Roxas and Namine.

I think these characters can be explored in a more nuanced light and try to atone, but their faults are still a part of them.

Edited by Dorked on Feb 13th 2019 at 7:18:13 AM

My Fanfiction Account | Kingdom Hearts: The Antipode series
unnoun Since: Jan, 2012
#2246: Feb 13th 2019 at 7:30:16 AM

You're right, of course.

And, like.

...It could be me, but I honestly can't tell how much time we're meant to assume passes for the characters between the Graveyard/Scala and Don't Think Twice?

Like. It'd be better writing for me, in my opinion, to actually explore the bumps in the road and not skip to the happy (ish) ending, but when literally everything else in 3 was rushed to hell and back. Like, it's. I wouldn't say that it's the least of my problems, because I do actually still have a problem with it myself, it's just that.

...Like, again you're both 100% right about the forgiveness and abuse stuff.

I just think the Saïx stuff is just. It's legitimately interesting to me in its own right, for its own sake, even without Xion's forgiveness, so. I just wanted to talk about it, I guess.

Again, one act of and attempt at atonement is really. Realistically, not enough. 100% true and right.

One of the things I like about Riku's journey, for instance, is all the bumps in the road, and how long it takes, and how many setbacks and even regressions there are. And even that's imperfect.

But.

I just wanted to talk about a Thing I liked?? I guess?

"I just think it's neat" marge simpson voice.

Saïx is a potato.

Dorked Since: Dec, 2012
#2247: Feb 13th 2019 at 7:33:20 AM

Nah, that's totally valid and it does add a lot of interesting nuance to Saix's character. It's just a shame the references to it were so fleeing, but that's a problem with KH 3's pacing, not the idea itself.

At the very least, it's handled way better than Marluxia in that, while I love Lauriam to bits, a lot of what makes him so endearing to me is tucked away in content that hasn't even been released globally yet? So any sympathy was saved until literally the last moment in KH 3.

My Fanfiction Account | Kingdom Hearts: The Antipode series
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#2248: Feb 13th 2019 at 7:48:07 AM

I mean, my personal desire (both in my fic and for the actual series) is for Lauriam and Elrena is for them to take on a more Anti-Villain role. Like, they often take on the antagonist role, and they often do things that made people angry at them, but for the purpose of bringing back Strelitzia or something like that?

Or maybe they’re Team Rocket now? I have strange desires sometimes.

Oh God! Natural light!
Dorked Since: Dec, 2012
#2249: Feb 13th 2019 at 8:00:20 AM

Amusingly, with how things are going in Antipode, that... might be close to what happens? Especially once Marly, Larx, and Xion sneak into Castle Oblivion and get some glimpses of Lauriam and Elrena's past, especially regarding Strelitzia.

It's gonna mess Marly UP. Not gonna turn him into a nice guy automatically, but it's gonna give him a lot to process, and it's not helped by the fact that their romp through the castle overlaps with Aqua, Xemnas, and Riku Replica going there to wake Ven up.

So like... we have Xion, Larx, and Marluxia who are still reeling from KHUX glimmers of flashbacks and then... oh. It's Xemnas.

Oh. It's Aqua. Oh, hi, Riku Replica, whatchu doing there? Rep is pissed because he HATES Marluxia. Xion is like no!!! They're my friends! Xemnas is thoroughly amused, and Aqua's caught in the middle of his clusterduck while having to deal with a newly awakened Ven and Sora being wrecked as a result of the forced awakening.

It's gonna be a disaster. Editor thinks it'd be good if Larxene got killed here, but if that DOES happen, I wanna make sure it doesn't feel like a fridging. That's the part I have to tread VERY carefully about.

Do you think it'd be justified if she puts up one HELL of a fight, Marluxia gets nearly killed too, and he and Xion retreat? All things considered, Larxene and Marluxia have lasted WAY longer than in canon, and that was after they had a brutal fight against Riku Replica and Mickey in the previous fic.

My Fanfiction Account | Kingdom Hearts: The Antipode series
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#2250: Feb 13th 2019 at 8:10:22 AM

Well, I'm not really the type to kill off canon characters like that, personally. Is there anything more you wanted to do with her? The Strelitzia stuff could be worth exploring with her.

For my part, as I think I mentioned earlier, I wanted Xigbar to recruit them with promises of being able to bring Strelitzia back. Maybe at first, he says that he just wants to watch, that's all, but as time goes on he starts asking them to do some small jobs for him here and there, and so on...

Oh God! Natural light!

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