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FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#16301: Dec 8th 2021 at 1:05:10 PM

Reverse Flashpoint was cool but should have been longer.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#16302: Dec 8th 2021 at 1:30:09 PM

Man. So in a weird sense, Despero totally buggered Eobard's plan and saved the day.

One Strip! One Strip!
Matchingbone from Somewhere between here and way over there. Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
#16303: Dec 14th 2021 at 6:16:34 PM

Okay so Eobard's speed is gone for now but since he's Barry's arch enemy we all know he'll be back before long. Desparo turned out to be a villain like people thought mostly because Barry said so. Daimien Dahrk stayed for a few extra scenes and Mia Queen was present to be a tool for Desparo. The wheel still turns on the story of Mia Queen even though there is no ground since that Future Canaries Spin-Off didn't pan out. Not sure if that Time Stone Joe has, Chester and Allegra's Ship Tease and Bart and Nora returning to do stuff can carry for season 8. Who knows. Overall I would say this 5 part event was fine but the crossover stuff doesn't have the same punch to it as previous years.

FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#16304: Dec 14th 2021 at 7:24:53 PM

Look. I respect the hell out of Joe's actor. Really, bang-up acting here.

But.

The next time Thawne kills someone. Rewrites the timeline. Does something that kills innocent extras who aren't related to the West family.

I want all of you to go back to this scene where he rips Barry a new one and yells at his own daughter for not at least trying to save the life of the man whose entire existence has been dedicated to making Barry's life miserable. To the extent that he murdered Joe, stole Iris from Barry, tore the entire team and family from him, and manipulated Joe's granddaughter into his service. And he's unrepentnant.

This show picked the most villainous, irredeemable character to have our main characters go "but we should save them because that's what heroes do."

The only sense this will make is that this is the CW where they like to make characters like Damien Darhk sympathetic, or where Malcolm Merlyn can float between being genuine father and guy who brainwashes his daughter into committing murder. Maybe, just maybe if we retcon Thawne as being so utterly pathetic and inconsequential that the heroes really have to feel sorry for him does Joe's argument make sense.

But he's not inconsequential. He's arguably the most hilariously competent and deadly character in all of the CW. He is the only speedster who knows what he's doing.

Batman said it best. "I'm not going to kill you, but I don't have to save you." Barry is not a cop. He doesn't answer to any institution nor is he on the same protect and serve that Joe is. Matter of fact I'm pretty sure most of Joe's coworkers opened fire on Thawne within seconds of seeing him with no questions asked.

Being a hero does not mean enabling your mortal enemy who decided before you were even born to repeatedly ruin your life to continue enacting harm on your loved ones.

I always wondered how this show would answer the problem with Thawne. Truly it should have ended with "erased from the timeline and suicide by past self" and then "erased from the timeline after being tricked by the Legends."

But it's just disgusting to see them weighing the morality of whether Thawne's continued survival here. And Joe of all people, the 3rd person from Barry and maybe Harrison Wells most affected by Thawne's actions.

There is something unequivocally good and infuriating about Joe as a character right now. There's that James Gordon-esque incorruptibility and right next to it that outright Genre Blindness.

There is no character less deserving of mercy than Thawne. And yes, I'm counting the Earth literally populated by Nazis.

Edited by FOFD on Dec 15th 2021 at 5:24:03 AM

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#16305: Dec 14th 2021 at 7:34:30 PM

Is it better if you read Barry taking away his speed as Cruel Mercy?

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#16306: Dec 15th 2021 at 11:16:23 AM

[up][up] Gotta agree there, Thawne just has to go. No speed or not, he WILL return and keep making Barry's life a living hell. That's all he'll ever be good for. He is an irredeemable monster and he's never gonna change. Fuck him. And fuck Joe for guilt tripping his kids like that.

Damien's last scene was sad sad

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Goku Black
#16307: Dec 15th 2021 at 11:53:10 AM

I'm confused what was going on here. Its not like they were killing him. They were just letting the sick fuck finally die on his own. But apparently, they can't do that? Why?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#16308: Dec 15th 2021 at 11:54:38 AM

Because letting the villain suffer the consequences of their murderous actions is regarded as the direct equivalent to murdering them with their own hands.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Matchingbone from Somewhere between here and way over there. Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
#16309: Dec 15th 2021 at 12:08:36 PM

Thawne directly asked for help from the Flash. That's why he first went to CCPD. He made a scene so the Flash would have to save him. But I agree that they should have let him die since this Thawne is so dedicated to ruining Barry's life and he won't quit. There was a lot of work put in so that the status quo would remain of Thawne being out there waiting for the right time to screw with Barry's life again. I think a similar thing would be like if Alice from Batwoman went to Gotham PD and asked Batwoman for help in public. But Superheroes aren't always obligated to save the villains also because they are a clear and present threat to the people.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#16310: Dec 15th 2021 at 12:10:17 PM

Alice is nowhere as bad as Thawne. He's a genuine sociopath who's only desire is to hurt barry. Yeah, this will backfire.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#16311: Dec 15th 2021 at 12:12:41 PM

This guy has so much Joker Immunity, it could be renamed after him. They had this one explicit opportunity to finally get rid of him and they screwed it up.

Of course he will be back, of course he will regain his speed. And then Joe is gonna look like the biggest moron of all times.

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Goku Black
#16312: Dec 15th 2021 at 12:14:16 PM

I don't understand why he was so insistent they save him?

Why?

It was so weird.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#16313: Dec 15th 2021 at 12:51:29 PM

I haven't seen the episode yet, but this definitely sounds like the same sort of crap from Season 3 Arrow that I had always commended The Flash for not doing, which is... disappointing.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#16314: Dec 15th 2021 at 1:05:18 PM

Yeah, at this point, this reeks a lot like the Malcolm Merlyn situation.

The latter finally bit the dust in the Season 5 finale. While Thawne is still around and shows no signs of leaving anytime soon.

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#16315: Dec 15th 2021 at 1:12:42 PM

At least Damien and Lex get new stuff and the later will at least get a break...

With Thawne and Malcolm it's the same shtick over and over.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#16316: Dec 15th 2021 at 1:24:53 PM

I mean if they want to keep Reverse-Flash they could I don't know use Daniel West?

Like give Thawne a break but still have a RF around.

Shame they used up Hunter but without Wally there's no point otherwise anyway.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#16317: Dec 15th 2021 at 2:02:48 PM

The funny part is that I've seen mostly praise for this episode because of Thwane.

I dunno, I get what they were trying to do but it's honestly fucking hard to justify. And the sad part, even if they did let Thwane die, he'd probably still come back to torment Barry in some form...

Its Arkham Asylum!Joker all over again, even when the arch enemy dies, the writers still can't resist using them.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#16318: Dec 15th 2021 at 2:04:01 PM

Oh he was fine here.

Its just the having to save him that I've seen people complain about. When their was no reason they had to do that.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#16319: Dec 15th 2021 at 2:08:20 PM

I mean, it's a great performance from Tom Cavanagh and Jesse L. Martin.

But god that whole scene made me so mad. [awesome] Congratulations Arrowverse, that is... that is the first time I have felt genuine anger at the inner workings of your universe.

Edited by FOFD on Dec 15th 2021 at 5:23:00 AM

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#16320: Dec 15th 2021 at 2:09:40 PM

Joker Immunity strikes again.

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Dec 15th 2021 at 5:09:52 AM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#16321: Dec 15th 2021 at 2:13:18 PM

Also, as much as I love Tom Cavanagh (I personally prefer his Reverse-Flash), it's sad just how little respect Matt Letscher gets. Like, you would be forgiven at this point to forget that he is actually supposed to be Thawne's real face.

Edited by Forenperser on Dec 15th 2021 at 11:13:37 AM

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FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#16322: Dec 15th 2021 at 2:15:56 PM

It is a shame. I was pleased they brought him on for Legends of Tomorrow.

Is it better if you read Barry taking away his speed as Cruel Mercy?

I guess. If they just didn't use Joe to stand up for Thawne. They did alright with the new people, you totally get why they would want to spare Thawne. But nobody in the West family should have. We literally just came off a story arc where Thawne took Joe's life, took him away from his kids and his wife, just to hurt Barry.

I guess it's just because Flash is the lighter, Silver Age show they have to keep Barry's hands clean.

I'm sure Iris will gun Thawne down in the end anyway.

Edited by FOFD on Dec 15th 2021 at 5:26:06 AM

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#16323: Dec 15th 2021 at 2:21:54 PM

Its sad too because he really came into his own in Legends imo and made Thwane's character into his own.

Tom Cavanaugh is just too popular and ingrained in the show's fanbase. Makes me wish they could have justified having both of them around.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Cross (Don’t ask)
#16324: Dec 15th 2021 at 2:29:39 PM

Pretty sure they can justify having both, it’s most likely a choice to do otherwise.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#16325: Dec 17th 2021 at 12:29:50 AM

We still need to do the episode where Barry meets Thawne for the first time. Hopefully they'll remember that they need to bring Letscher back for that.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Dec 17th 2021 at 12:29:59 PM


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