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Is Rock Really DEAD?!/Opinions are Opinions...

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sharkcrap11 Just A Guy from A Special Hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
Just A Guy
#176: Feb 21st 2014 at 5:18:53 PM

This whole argument is the kinda thing where there technically isn't a right or wrong, just two different (and equally valid) approaches to an art form. All a matter of personal taste.

I happen to have respect for both artistic and entertaining approaches to music making. Not everyone like both, and that's fine. But both are valid.

edited 21st Feb '14 5:19:03 PM by sharkcrap11

sharkcrap11 Just A Guy from A Special Hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
Just A Guy
#177: Feb 21st 2014 at 5:49:33 PM

Also, tenor sax was never a universal or even extremely common Rock instrument- most Rockabilly bands of the 50s didn't feature it, for example. Or most of Chuck Berry or Bo Diddley's work, for that matter. It was never something that Rock & Roll HAD to have to be Rock & Roll, it was just another instrument that showed up fairly often.

Aldo930 Professional Moldy Fig/Curmudgeon from Quahog, R.I. Since: Aug, 2013
Professional Moldy Fig/Curmudgeon
#178: Feb 21st 2014 at 6:27:02 PM

[up] I had thought of that, incidentally. You're right, it wasn't in every band, but it was still pretty damn common, though.

The piano was also a pretty common instrument, as was the standup bass... Although that's disappeared for much more logical reasons...

edited 21st Feb '14 6:27:29 PM by Aldo930

"They say I'm old fashioned, and live in the past, but sometimes I think progress progresses too fast."
sharkcrap11 Just A Guy from A Special Hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
Just A Guy
#179: Feb 21st 2014 at 7:05:39 PM

It was a very common instrument in R&B and the more overtly R&B-influenced Rock & Roll and Blues of the time, as well as first wave Ska (which was influenced heavily by R&B). To say nothing of Jazz. Much more commonly heard back then, certainly. It does need to make a comeback... sad

Hell, the standup bass was ubiquitous, I won't argue there. grin It's an iconic symbol of that era of music. Every Rockabilly, R&B and Rock & Roll act of the era had one for a while. Electric basses became common in the early 60s I believe... Less bulky, easier to get a consistent volume level out of and easier to record (for a bass guitar, you either route it into the board through a DI box or mic the amp like you would a guitar, wehereas the standup requires at least two mics positioned carefully), those were the main reasons. Still, nothing sounds quite like the standup. It's got a very interesting, organic kind of sound...

Aldo930 Professional Moldy Fig/Curmudgeon from Quahog, R.I. Since: Aug, 2013
Professional Moldy Fig/Curmudgeon
#180: Feb 21st 2014 at 7:10:52 PM

Definitely we need more tenor sax in today's music. That sort of rock 'n' roll tenor sax is great stuff.

The standup bass does have a great sound. Then again, they were always at a disadvantage even before rock. Old-time country bands usually went without basses because they couldn't be carried around (a few used the cello for a bass sound). In the early 20s, it was found the bass didn't record very well - before the microphone was invented - so all the jazz bands used tuba instead. A few used bass saxophone. The trend didn't shift for standup bass until the early 30s, and even then quite a few bands kept using tuba...

"They say I'm old fashioned, and live in the past, but sometimes I think progress progresses too fast."
sharkcrap11 Just A Guy from A Special Hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
Just A Guy
#181: Feb 21st 2014 at 7:49:00 PM

Indeed. It's still a common instrument in Jazz and Ska groups at least, and I kinda like those genres. tongue You don't hear much Rock & Roll (as opposed to the more general Rock) these days in general, sadly. sad

Hey man, don't knock the tuba! wink In all seriousness though, the standup bass really is not an easy instrument to record. After all, if the mics get moved, or if the bass does, it can mess the recorded sound up pretty dramatically. It was probly a lot worse before mics were invented... Hell, mics becoming common probly helped make it more popular for a time, since it was finally possible to record it reasonably well.

Bass Saxophone. There's one that's even LESS common than the Tenor... tongue

Aldo930 Professional Moldy Fig/Curmudgeon from Quahog, R.I. Since: Aug, 2013
Professional Moldy Fig/Curmudgeon
#182: Feb 21st 2014 at 8:12:52 PM

True rock 'n' roll isn't easy to find because... Well, I have no idea. People stereotyping it as a 50s thing?

I ain't knocking the tuba! I actually think it's a great bass instrument. It's more audible than a bass is. (I'd also like to make a case for the tenor banjo, which I play, and which goes very well with a tuba.)

Bass saxes are extremely huge. Bigger than baritone saxes, which are also rather common.

"They say I'm old fashioned, and live in the past, but sometimes I think progress progresses too fast."
sharkcrap11 Just A Guy from A Special Hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
Just A Guy
#183: Feb 21st 2014 at 8:23:03 PM

That and it isn't... I dunno, "Rock" enough for the Rock crowd? That and a lotta people these days can't grasp its rhythm and thus can't dance to it. Most of the dancing crowd gravitates towards Electronic music of various types (not that I have anything against Electronic music, hell, I like quite a bit of it... but still). With the exception of the Swing crowd, but they're a niche. Actually, as is Rock & Roll- still exists, but its pretty niche-y. sad

I have a friend who plays Tuba. Well, tuba and keyboards. I should see if I can get him to help me record some stuff sometime. tongue

Bass banjos are a thing? I did not know this. Why did I not know this? surprised

I've seen bass and baritone saxes. Big indeed. You don't hear the bass much, though the baritone shows up in Jazz and R&B/Soul/Funk ensembles...

Aldo930 Professional Moldy Fig/Curmudgeon from Quahog, R.I. Since: Aug, 2013
Professional Moldy Fig/Curmudgeon
#184: Feb 21st 2014 at 8:34:35 PM

I find it hard to believe that the natural rhythm in a lot of rock 'n' roll doesn't attract people, doesn't make them want to move in some fashion. It does for me.

There's also a 20s dance scene, but that's even smaller than the swing guys.

Speaking of 20s music, bass banjos do exist, and they're pretty rare, but I'm talking about the tenor banjo, a sort of four string banjo tuned like a viola or cello. It's a lot of fun, and easier to play than a five string.

"They say I'm old fashioned, and live in the past, but sometimes I think progress progresses too fast."
sharkcrap11 Just A Guy from A Special Hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
Just A Guy
#185: Feb 21st 2014 at 8:55:53 PM

Same for me. But the "dance" crowd I'm referring to is the typical younger, teen-early 20s crowd (I'm 24 myself, but I'm hardly typical, if I may toot my own horn a bit tongue), who go out clubbing with their bros/girlfriends to hook up and drink and shit. That crowd mostly listens to what Todd In the Shadows uncharitably (but not wholly incorrectly) calls "Club Shit" (actually Dance-Pop/modern R&B of the type that gets played at modern clubs) and are more-or-less completely unfamiliar with the classic Rock & Roll rhythm and thus would more than likely be confused by it. Hence the lack of commercial success for Rock & Roll- it doesn't get played on mainstream radio or at mainstream nightclubs. Between that and the raver/EDM fandom, who are still fairly large and have a pretty large hold on more underground dance music (but at least have decency to listen to somewhat more interesting/less-commercial Electronic music), there simply isn't much more than a niche or cult audience for Rock & Roll at this time.

Which is actually a tragedy, and a real shame. sad

I think I've heard of them. They're into like Dixieland-type stuff, right? smile

Either way, that sounds amazing. I assume it can be used as a sort of alternative to bass guitar- in other words, a way to "hold down the low end", as t'were? Keeping in mind that, to some extent, the standard banjo is a rhythm instrument as well. Sorta. tongue

tropeslave Pop Culture Addict from Subang Jaya, Selangor, Malaysia Since: Nov, 2013 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
Pop Culture Addict
#186: Feb 21st 2014 at 9:15:28 PM

I used to have a joke that I made to fool my friends when they talked about clubbing. It went something like this:

Friend: A new club just opened somewhere around here a while ago. Perhaps we should visit it soon.

Me: Alright. But, may I know how the club is like?

Friend: Oh, you know, the usual? I'm not sure because I didn't go the club yet. The dance floor, the bar, strobe lights, the D Js play EDM and Dubstep....

Me: whoawhoawhoa.... you meant that sort of club? That kind of place where they play things like stinky David Guetta, Swedish House Mafia and some other rubbish? I thought you meant a Rock & Roll club! Whatever! I don't want to know more about it now.

Friend: .....

sharkcrap11 Just A Guy from A Special Hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
Just A Guy
#187: Feb 21st 2014 at 9:42:04 PM

Heh. Good one, got a chuckle outta me. [lol]

I don't have anything against EDM per se, though most of the really popular stuff nowadays is a bit bland for my taste. I go for the more experimental or harder hitting stuff (I miss the days of Big Beat and Trip-Hop in the 90s). Also, I like a lot of Dubstep, but the Brostep kinda stuff that gets played in clubs I'm not wild about. I like my Dubstep chilled out and atmospheric, or loud but in a different way...

You don't see many Rock clubs these days, sadly... I mean, sometimes bars and pubs'll get a band to play, but... not as often as I'd like.

JHM Apparition in the Woods from Niemandswasser Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Hounds of love are hunting
sharkcrap11 Just A Guy from A Special Hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
Just A Guy
#189: Feb 21st 2014 at 11:47:25 PM

Who, me? Big fan, love Industrial Music in pretty much all forms (except maybe Harsh Noise and Power Electronics), from the old late 70s/early 80s stuff (Throbbing Gristle, Coil, Einsturzende Neubauten, Chrome, Test Dept., early Cabaret Voltaire), EBM (Front 242, Nitzer Ebb, later Cabaret Voltaire, DAF) and Electro-Industrial (Skinny Puppy, Front Line Assembly, Haujobb, :wumpscut:, Leatherstrip, X-Marks the Pedwalk) to Industrial Rock/Metal (KMFDM, Godflesh, Ministry, Marilyn Manson, Rammstein, Oomph! and of course NIN). And those are just the favorites/obvious stuff, I haven't even gone into zoviet france, Current 93 or Lustmord-style Ambient Industrial stuff or anything REALLY out there.

The stuff above barely scratches the surface, it's just some faves. I can go on about Industrial for a long time.

Or are you referring to Industrial Techno as in the very specific style? Which I think is similar to Power Noise or Technoid, but I'm not entirely sure. tongue

Aldo930 Professional Moldy Fig/Curmudgeon from Quahog, R.I. Since: Aug, 2013
Professional Moldy Fig/Curmudgeon
#190: Feb 22nd 2014 at 8:52:02 AM

Post 185: It truly is a crying shame. Not to be melodramatic, but I despise my generation sometimes...

I do think another, bigger reason true rock 'n' roll is a cult thing is the same reason you rarely hear of people writing new ragtime or Dixieland stuff; they've been superseded by other things.

Dixieland and megaphone-crooning, hot dance band type stuff. There's also a ragtime dance scene that's equally as big.

Five string banjos are hard to play chords on. In bluegrass they pick the banjo, and in Western swing they either don't use the banjo or use tenor banjo.

"They say I'm old fashioned, and live in the past, but sometimes I think progress progresses too fast."
sharkcrap11 Just A Guy from A Special Hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
Just A Guy
#191: Feb 22nd 2014 at 2:47:37 PM

I'm 24, so we may be part of the same generation. But I despise my generation as well, and if anything, the younger kids are even worse (I often call the under-16 crowd "little shits", which is horrible, but kinda appropriate- so effing bratty)... [tdown]

Exactly. Don't get me wrong, i like a lot of the stuff they've been superseded by (witness the long-ass Metal discussion me and Stillbirth have had, or my previous comment on Industrial Music), but I do miss Rock & Roll and the other old stuff occasionally. I feel there's room for all those genres and more to grow and thrive, but apparently not everyone feels that way. sad

That's about what I thought, but thanks for the confirmation.

I learn new things everyday. On the subject of Western Swing, there's a great Western Swing band who plays large bars/dance halls near my city (Kitchener, Ontario) sometimes. They're apparently composed of session pros who often back fairly well-known Country acts in Canada, and some of 'em have won fairly big awards. Good band, it's just a good time. grin

Aldo930 Professional Moldy Fig/Curmudgeon from Quahog, R.I. Since: Aug, 2013
Professional Moldy Fig/Curmudgeon
#192: Feb 22nd 2014 at 2:55:34 PM

It all depends on how you define a generation. I was born in the mid-90s.

Somebody ought to get to writing original tunes in the old rock 'n' roll style...

Even the polka scene is bigger...

I had no idea about that. Western Swing's one of those things you never hear much about because you can't categorize it. Is it country or jazz? In my opinion... Why should we care?! It's just fun!

"They say I'm old fashioned, and live in the past, but sometimes I think progress progresses too fast."
sharkcrap11 Just A Guy from A Special Hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
Just A Guy
#193: Feb 22nd 2014 at 3:42:55 PM

Close enough, I'd say we're both part of Gen Y. Or "Millenials", as a lot of them like to be known. I prefer Generation Y though, or possibly Generation Why? wink

I'd say it's Country that's influenced by Jazz, but others may disagree. Most people I know say it's Country though, for the reason that it lacks some of the instrumentation associated with Jazz (never mind that Jazz isn't about which instruments are played, but rather the approach).

It is fun though, and pretty musically sophisticated, actually...

Aldo930 Professional Moldy Fig/Curmudgeon from Quahog, R.I. Since: Aug, 2013
Professional Moldy Fig/Curmudgeon
#194: Feb 22nd 2014 at 3:48:24 PM

Well, at least we can get along...

Fun music isn't really appreciated these days, as I've said before.

If you listen to old-time fiddle music you don't hear solos or improvisation. It's just one fiddle playing with the other instruments on rhythm.

edited 22nd Feb '14 3:49:45 PM by Aldo930

"They say I'm old fashioned, and live in the past, but sometimes I think progress progresses too fast."
sharkcrap11 Just A Guy from A Special Hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
Just A Guy
#195: Feb 23rd 2014 at 9:00:27 PM

That's something. smile

Well, it depends on how you define fun- one person's fun is another's tedious... tongue But I personally don't think that the really popular stuff these days is all that fun, no.

True, but Western Swing isn't old-time fiddle music- it's got a larger ensemble and drums, for one...

Aldo930 Professional Moldy Fig/Curmudgeon from Quahog, R.I. Since: Aug, 2013
Professional Moldy Fig/Curmudgeon
#196: Feb 24th 2014 at 4:16:48 AM

There are some things that are always fun.

Which was my point... Western swing is jazzed up fiddle music.

edited 24th Feb '14 4:17:21 AM by Aldo930

"They say I'm old fashioned, and live in the past, but sometimes I think progress progresses too fast."
WaxingName from Everywhere Since: Oct, 2010
#197: Feb 24th 2014 at 10:48:07 AM

(Thread Hop)

The "main" genres of Rock may or may not be dead in mainstream (alternative Rock is alive and kicking), but it will always survive, whether that be underground or mainstream.

And besides, Hip Hop was an underground genre for a good part of the 90s, and now everyone considers that era to be that genre's peak. Maybe with "main" Rock being underground in this era, people will consider this decade the new golden age of rock.

Please help out our The History Of Video Games page.
sharkcrap11 Just A Guy from A Special Hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
Just A Guy
#198: Feb 28th 2014 at 6:27:57 PM

[up][up] Well, true enough. grin Ah, so that was your point. Absolutely right, point taken. My bad for missing that.

[up] Indie-Rock pretty much is Alternative Rock, so yeah, that one's alive and kicking, even in the mainstream. And you may be on to something, though of course only time will tell. smile Hindsight is... well, different, for one. tongue

And Rock in some form will pretty much always exist, so no one should worry. Rock & Roll is here to stay. wink

LadyKatie Since: Dec, 2013
#199: Feb 28th 2014 at 6:51:27 PM

NO. ROCK IS NOT DEAD BECAUSE I REFUSE TO ALLOW IT.

sharkcrap11 Just A Guy from A Special Hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
Just A Guy
#200: Mar 14th 2014 at 5:54:07 PM

As long as it is not allowed to die, it will not die. That's my take.


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