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General Middle East & North Africa Thread

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Okay, every topic that has even remotely to do with the middle east keeps getting more general news put into it which removes focus from the original topic.

As such, I'm creating this thread as a general middle east and north africa topic. That means anything to do with the Arab Spring, Israel or Palestine should be kept to those threads and anything to do with more generic news (for example, new Saudi regulations on the number of foreign workers or the Lebanese elections next year, etc.) should be posted here.

I hope the mods will find this a clear enough statement of intent to open the thread.

Mod edit: The Israel and Palestine thread has been locked since October 2023. Discussion about Palestine and/or Israel remains off-topic for this thread. This also bans discussion of any military conflict, terrorism or extrajudicial actions involving one of them and a third country (e.g. Israel's air strikes in Yemen).

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 28th 2024 at 12:26:59 PM

DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#2176: Nov 19th 2022 at 6:47:58 AM

[up]

For the prestige of hosting the World Cup, even though nobody in Qatar gives a shit about football. That's really it.

Their leadership also knows that people still need their oil, so they can be as obnoxious and openly homophobic as they want.

Which is another reason why we really need to move past fossil fuels and cut those petty despots off from the money stream.

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Nov 19th 2022 at 3:48:58 PM

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#2177: Nov 19th 2022 at 6:50:27 AM

FIFA cares about the $$$ first and foremost. Evidently this also goes for its bosses.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#2178: Nov 19th 2022 at 6:51:35 AM

Of course there's probably gonna be some issues with their sponsors now that Qatar banned alcohol consumption at the World Cup.

Because one of their biggest sponsors is Budweiser who can't be happy about that.

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#2179: Nov 19th 2022 at 7:03:13 AM

The Qatar government will probably pay them off. It seems like they wanted to host the World Cup for a combination of prestige and as a really fancy private show for the countries elites. FIFA executives were happy to oblige in exchange for massive bribes.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
megarockman from The Sixth Borough (Experienced Trainee)
#2180: Nov 19th 2022 at 7:24:53 AM

Sportswashing is a thing.

The damned queen and the relentless knight.
DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#2181: Nov 19th 2022 at 7:28:12 AM

[up]

Yes, but that generally only "works" if people pay more attention to the sport than whatever atrocities you're committing in the background.

So far most of the reporting around this World Cup has been about Qatar's use of slave labour, their state-enforced homophobia etc, to the point that a lot of football fans are... not that enthusiastic about the whole thing, to put it mildly.

It's probably also the most blatant example of FIFA's corruption to date.

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Nov 19th 2022 at 4:28:57 PM

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#2182: Nov 19th 2022 at 8:11:18 AM

Plus Qatar seem to be going out of their way to piss people off. They've tried to flat out break the camera of the Netherlands' most famous war reporter. That's beyond stupid if you don't want to attract attention.

Several prominent sports journalists have been bringing up the deaths.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Bexlerfu Khatun of the Azim Steppe from Mol Iloh Since: Nov, 2020
Khatun of the Azim Steppe
#2183: Nov 19th 2022 at 1:03:01 PM

Bear in mind that no matter what European or US journalists say, Qatar will still forever be the first muslim country to host the football World Cup. It's one thing to bankroll a major football team or to host various sporting events (in athletics, tennis...), but the World Cup is the #1 sporting event in the world, and it is something several billion people are interested in. Many of whom don't really care about oppressive regimes - in part because many live under regimes like that, sadly.

It's been mentioned repeatedly that it really is Western fans who are outraged at this WC. Most Asian or African or South American fans don't care. And even in Europe, many people are in full Panem et Circenses mode.

And even if European fans are outraged...how many newspapers actually chose not to talk about the World Cup? In France, only one newspaper decided to do that - a daily one from La Réunion, an island in the Indian Ocean (and ironically the French territory that is the closest geographically to Qatar). All major ones will still talk about it...and get the ad revenue associated with it.

eagleoftheninth Shop all day, greed is free from a dreamed portrait, imperfect Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Shop all day, greed is free
#2184: Nov 19th 2022 at 1:51:07 PM

So far most of the reporting around this World Cup has been about Qatar's use of slave labour, their state-enforced homophobia etc, to the point that a lot of football fans are... not that enthusiastic about the whole thing, to put it mildly.

Correction: most of the reporting that reaches geopolitics nerds who don't normally follow soccer. Most normie fans are getting more coverage of the gossip that Pogba sicced a witch doctor on Mbappé, or this being Messi's last World Cup, or whatever. It's not like having a host with a questionable record on human rights managed to stop the last World Cup (or Winter Olympics), either.

Edited by eagleoftheninth on Nov 19th 2022 at 1:58:20 AM

One day, we will read his name in the news and cheer.
Mullon Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: And here's to you, Mrs. Robinson
#2185: Nov 22nd 2022 at 8:46:44 AM

I'll give FIFA credit, they've found a way to make me pay attention to the World Cup. Now if they could just do something about the whole football part.

Never trust anyone who uses "degenerate" as an insult.
Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#2186: Nov 22nd 2022 at 9:05:49 AM

Plus Qatar seem to be going out of their way to piss people off. They've tried to flat out break the camera of the Netherlands' most famous war reporter. That's beyond stupid if you don't want to attract attention.

As much as I'd love for my nation to claim the credit, that war reporter was Danish. Dude's a legend. Stood his ground in front of those goons and had them scamper.

Edited by Kayeka on Nov 22nd 2022 at 6:06:38 PM

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#2187: Nov 22nd 2022 at 11:23:18 AM

I have seen a lot of clashes right now between muslism and african vs westerns in tweeter about the whole thing, kinda dificult stuff really.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
xyzt Since: Apr, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#2188: Nov 23rd 2022 at 2:05:18 AM

Erdogan signals ground operation into Syria ‘soon’. Ankara launched a series of air strikes in Operation Claw-Sword on Sunday

     Article 
President Recep Tayyip Erdogan vowed on Tuesday that Turkey would "soon" launch a ground operation into Syria against Kurdish targets defying mounting international pressure.

Ankara launched a series of air strikes in Operation Claw-Sword on Sunday — hitting dozens of Kurdish targets across Iraq and Syria — and announcing that its military was once again "on the top of the terrorists".

The air raids followed a bombing in Istanbul that killed six persons and wounded 81. Ankara blamed the attack on the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK), which is blacklisted as a terror group by the European Union and the United States.

The Turkish leader has threatened a new military operation into northern Syria since May and upped those threats in the wake of this month's attack.

"We have been on top of terrorists for a few days with our planes, cannons and drones," Mr. Erdogan told a ceremony in the Black Sea province of Artvin.

"God willing, we will root out all of them soon with our tanks, artillery and soldiers."

The PKK, which has waged an insurgency against the Turkish state since 1984, denied any role in the November 13 bombing, which was the deadliest in five years after a spate of attacks in Turkey between 2015 and 2017.

The United States on late Monday urged de-escalation and Russia said on Tuesday it hoped Turkey would exercise "restraint" and refrain from "excessive use of force" in Syria.

"We understand and respect Turkey's concerns regarding its own security... We still call on all parties to refrain from steps that could lead to seriously destabilising the situation," Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov told reporters.

Mr. Erdogan said on Tuesday his government knew "who protects, arms and encourages those terrorists", in a veiled reference to Washington, which relied heavily on Syrian Kurdish forces in the fight against the Islamic State group.

He said Turkey was patient enough, "not because it was desperate", but because it was loyal to diplomacy

"The road has come to an end for those who think they can keep Turkey waiting by playing with letters and changing the name of the terrorist organisation," Mr. Erdogan said.

Turkey has launched three offensives into Syria since 2016 aimed at crushing Syrian Kurdish fighters, whom it charges are allied to the PKK.

A base in northeastern Syria used jointly by Kurdish forces and the U.S.-led coalition was hit in a Turkish drone strike Tuesday, the Kurds and a war monitor said.

"A joint base north of Hasakeh used for planning and executing joint operations against the Islamic State group has been hit by a Turkish drone," a spokesman for the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces, Farhad Shami, told AFP, adding that two SDF fighters had been killed.

A Britain-based monitoring group, the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, confirmed the joint base had come under attack but was not immediately in a position to say whether coalition forces had been present at the time.

There was no immediate comment from the U.S.-led coalition.

Mr. Erdogan has repeatedly called for a 30 km "safe zone" to protect Turkey against cross-border attacks from Syrian territory.

At least three persons, including a child, were killed in a Turkish border town on Monday by a rocket strike fired from Syria.

Anthony Skinner, a Turkey expert and a political risk consultant, told AFP that conditions "are in place for a particularly robust campaign" against Kurdish fighters ahead of Turkish presidential and parliamentary elections in June.

"Erdogan wants to bolster support for his AKP and its (nationalist) MHP allies, so he is playing the nationalist and security card. Hence the noise," he said.

"Erdogan effectively used the security and stability cards in the run up to the rerun of the general election in 2015. But his work is cut out now because of economic and socioeconomic pressures."

Edited by xyzt on Nov 23rd 2022 at 3:35:40 PM

Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#2189: Dec 7th 2022 at 1:12:22 PM

Turkey has given an ultimatum to both the United States and Russia, demanding that SDF forces in northern Syria be withdrawn within two weeks or they will mount a ground military operation.

alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#2190: Dec 7th 2022 at 1:14:58 PM

Sultan tantrum throwing in 3,2,1...

Diana1969 Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#2191: Dec 18th 2022 at 12:19:03 PM

Protests in Jordan over rising fuel prices have led to one police officer being killed.

eagleoftheninth Shop all day, greed is free from a dreamed portrait, imperfect Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Shop all day, greed is free
#2192: Jan 26th 2023 at 2:12:57 PM

Washington Post: Yemen and Lebanon sites added to UNESCO endangered list, comprising seven major landmarks of the Sabaean Kingdom (including the Ma'rib Dam) and the Rachid Karami International Fair in Tripoli.


Human Rights Watch: Lebanon's general prosecutor has ordered the release of all suspects detained in connection to the 2020 Beirut blast.

Edited by eagleoftheninth on Jan 26th 2023 at 2:39:07 AM

One day, we will read his name in the news and cheer.
tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#2193: Feb 5th 2023 at 10:56:33 PM

7.8 earthquake in Turkey near the border with Syria and close to the Mediterranean, could be felt in Lebanon, Cyprus, and Isreal.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
PCD Since: May, 2021 Relationship Status: Mu
#2194: Feb 6th 2023 at 9:09:21 AM

A second, 7.5 earthquake also hit Turkey hours later.

There has been extreme structural damage and loss of life (estimated at 2100 killed, expected to climb.)

eagleoftheninth Shop all day, greed is free from a dreamed portrait, imperfect Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Shop all day, greed is free
#2195: Feb 6th 2023 at 9:24:55 AM

Just about the last thing northern Syria needs. Between a decade-plus of war, COVID, a massive refugee population living in unsafe tent cities and theft of UN aid funds by the Assad regime, it's one of the worst crisis zones on the planet. Southeast Turkey is also where the Turkish-PKK conflict has raged for decades, and the whole area has increasingly served as a waypoint for Afghan and Iranian refugees besides.


The National: Iraqi environmental activist Jassim Al-Asadi has been kidnapped near Baghdad.

I had Jassim as a visiting lecturer for a few weeks while taking a hydrology elective on my exchange semester in uni. He's a veteran engineer who spoke about Saddam's systematic destruction of Iraq's southern marshes, one of the great cradles of human civilisation, in retaliation for what he saw as the native tribes' support for the failed Shi'a uprising in 1991. By the turn of the millennium, most of the marshlands had been completely drained, and many of the inhabitants were forced to flee across the border as refugees.

The rehabilitation process has been slow going. The water started returning once the dams and dikes that Saddam built were taken down, and the marshes' wildlife and their people's ancient traditions have made them a popular destination for domestic Iraqi tourists over the years — something that Jassim's group, Nature Iraq, encouraged. But government corruption and mismanagement have turned the marshes into a dumping ground for industrial pollutants and sewage, undoing the progress that activists fought so hard for. Jassim also made enemies speaking out against powerful actors in the Iraqi government that diverted the water upstream of the Shatt al-Arab to their constituencies and business interests, threatening to dry out the fertile marshlands once again.

The NGO Global Witness estimated that on average, an environmental activist was killed every two days over the past decade. I'm hoping, maybe against hope, that this story will have a better ending.

Edited by eagleoftheninth on Feb 6th 2023 at 9:44:50 AM

One day, we will read his name in the news and cheer.
SgtRicko Since: Jul, 2009
#2196: Feb 7th 2023 at 4:45:28 AM

The region is still suffering aftershocks, and the earthquake's estimated death toll between Turkey and Syria is now at approx 4,300.

Of special note is that the earthquake epicenter is near the Turkish town of Gaziantep, which is pretty close to the border region of Turkey and Syria that was also already badly impacted by the civil war.

Edited by SgtRicko on Feb 7th 2023 at 10:45:39 PM

eagleoftheninth Shop all day, greed is free from a dreamed portrait, imperfect Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Shop all day, greed is free
#2197: Feb 8th 2023 at 5:14:25 PM

The rare occasion where the refugees living in tent cities are marginally less screwed than the people living in proper homes.

Guardian: Death toll from the quake has gone up to 12,000: 9,000 in Turkey and 3,000 in Syria. Experts are predicting that the number might more than double, considering the sheer scale of destruction in both countries.

One day, we will read his name in the news and cheer.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#2198: Feb 9th 2023 at 12:37:29 AM

Aye, sadly the thing about preliminary earthquake death tolls is that they tend to grow.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#2199: Feb 9th 2023 at 12:39:52 AM

Having lived through multiple earthquakes, it's sobering to be reminded of just how bad they can get if you don't live in places specifically built with them in mind.

Disgusted, but not surprised
alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#2200: Feb 9th 2023 at 1:23:48 AM

Really makes me worried about getting hit with a big one over here too.


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