Okay, every topic that has even remotely to do with the middle east keeps getting more general news put into it which removes focus from the original topic.
As such, I'm creating this thread as a general middle east and north africa topic. That means anything to do with the Arab Spring, Israel or Palestine should be kept to those threads and anything to do with more generic news (for example, new Saudi regulations on the number of foreign workers or the Lebanese elections next year, etc.) should be posted here.
I hope the mods will find this a clear enough statement of intent to open the thread.
Mod edit: The Israel and Palestine thread
has been locked since October 2023. Discussion about Palestine and/or Israel remains off-topic for this thread. This also bans discussion of any military conflict, terrorism or extrajudicial actions involving one of them and a third country (e.g. Israel's air strikes in Yemen).
Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 28th 2024 at 12:26:59 PM
D'oh, I feel like an idiot. I've just worked out what, exactly, would have sparked the cousin turning her in in the first place was. Somebody suddenly realised that he'd they'd lost out on a chance to cash in on a dowry, didn't he they, as the girl actually managed to survive, even without any input, to be old enough to marry (and have children of her own). Worse, she did it without him them knowing, right?
<slaps head>
Of course! Now they can't gouge her husband the usual way, thanks to you know, being a bit too late. With him being a (presumably and gallingly) rich, American Christian, he is they are hoping to cash in (somehow) by turning her into an apostate, while burying their own mistake in another branch of tradition! Or, kill her trying! (Not to get back at him for picking up what he they ignored, at all... nope.)
And, let me guess: that somebody who turned her in was likely the one who everybody else assumed was looking after her and her mother... but, you know... wasn't.
Way to stay classy... it's your standard dowry balls up and somebody has to pay. -_- And, it ain't going to be me us, right?
edited 25th Jun '14 4:35:51 AM by Euodiachloris
Question for Arabic speakers. Why is it Libyan names in particular are hard to Romanize? The G-man is the most famous example, but I've also seen General Haftar spelled as Hifter (ew), Heftar, Hefter....
I ask because it doesn't seem to happen to say, Iraqis or Saudis or Syrians, at least in the press (with the exception of whether or not to add the Al/El part of the name, which is at least common across coverage of Arabic-speaking nations).
I'm no expert, but a little Google-fu results in this handy little article
that discusses the issue with the transliteration of Arabic words into the Romanized alphabet with that one particular fashion disaster from a few years ago.
As I understand it, the rule according to these people's authorities is simple. If your father is Muslim, then you are born Muslim and "the door of apostasy is forever closed" to you (quoting a cleric whose name I can't remember, who was discussing the meaning of the phrase "there is no compulsion in religion").
I knew the daughter of an Iman at school in South Africa. Frankly, her father would laugh that one out the room upon hearing it (heck, he even sent her to a Church of England School for the science lab and access to musical education — he trusted her training in Islam to be sufficient that she wouldn't turn apostate on him: also, I think he was hoping for a doctor or three from his brood). How are you suddenly part of Islam if you've never (or very rarely) been to Mosque and never been taught how to be? It's not like the scripture is embedded in kids' brains at birth, or he'd not have had to get them to sit still for an hour twice a day reciting scripture to learn it in the first place, day after day.
The other one flipping jingles. -_- They dropped the ball. Fess up, take the loss and then shut up — and, then try not to drop any other balls that could have a dowry attached in future, eh? <_< She might be "Muslim" till her dying day (according to them): but, it would have helped their case if she'd actually been brought up in Islam, now, wouldn't it?
As it is, they're facing the real danger of looking like total idiots. (Particularly if this backfires and the tiger they're busy riding turns on them.)
edited 25th Jun '14 5:06:35 AM by Euodiachloris
These Muslim fundamentalist types really seem to think that "repenting" is some sort of panacea. There are documented incidents of Syariah court judges here ordering those accused to repent before a verdict was reached.
And yes, I do find the concept of "repenting" being a cure-all in a region where blood feuds are disturbingly commonplace to be rather odd.
I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot![]()
Somebody is off the birthday present list, yes. -_- If he ever was actually on it. <_< Well done, big bro: sterling job holding your sister's hand through her childhood and teenage years. Keep trotting out her primary school scores like a champ.
That convinces me you saw her from the age of 8 onwards on a regular basis really well. -_-
edited 25th Jun '14 7:48:05 AM by Euodiachloris
From that video: "Why should I indulge my humanity... and incur the wrath of my Lord?" he asks. That pretty much tells you what you need to know about what this family believes. He thinks his sister should be executed if she does not repent. Fulfilling what they believe to be the word of their God is more important to them than an individual life. The facial expression of the interviewer (apparently a muslum woman) in response to this is priceless.
I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.![]()
But it is perfectly logical for hardcore conservative wings within Islamic belief. Watch out for those No True Scotsman fallacies.
I had a rather... visceral response to some of the quotes in the article.
True but you'll find those views amongst most hardcore conservatives of almost any faith, it's almost as if misogamy and hatred for all others faiths has nothing to do with Islam and everything to do with right-wing religious fundamentalism....
Also I'd like to note that conservative is technically the wrong word for us to use, these guys would be conservative in dark ages (where they would represent the status quo), in the modern age they're reactionary fucktards.
edited 25th Jun '14 3:10:05 PM by Silasw
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran![]()
Though let's not kid ourselves: Christianity in extremism is more likely to excommunicate you for leaving the faith or interfaith marriage, whereas Islam plays rather fast and loose with what constitutes an act egregious enough to deserve an honor killing and it's much more harsh against women than men almost as a rule.
edited 25th Jun '14 11:24:13 PM by chi_mangetsu
"I'd like to be a tree." - Fluttershy
On the issue of inter-faith marriage you may be right, though there are enough crazy Christian cults in the US that it's far from a one sided thing. And Christianity is less harsh on women not due to anything inherent to the faith but due to the locations where it is, I reckon if you take a Christian exstreamist from Uganda and put him next to an Islamic exstreamist from Sudan you'll find they have pretty much the exact same position on women.
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Christianity went through its growing pains as Judaism did before it. Islam, being the youngest Abrahamic religion, is still going through its growing pains as the region is wrapped up in continuous tribal in-fighting in a rapidly modernizing world.
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You're asking to talk about the Middle East without religion. That's like trying to talk about the American Civil War without slavery. Sure, you could do it, but you're missing a key ingredient.
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What do you mean by "lead"? I doubt that you actually meant the chemical element, or were using its colloquial sense of "slang for 'bullets'".
Yes I did mean the element . Geez I thought I was pretty straightforward . You know, like lead in paint or gasoline ? Apparently crime has been on the decline in the us since laws regulating lead we're passed in the 70s. My mom is always saying that maybe all the violence in the Mid East is due to something in the air . I never thought it had much weight until I remembered that thing about lead and crime rates
You'd need a pretty high lead concentration in the air to actually have any effects on anyone, I'll ask over in the medical thread but I'd hazard a guess that the drop in US crime rate since the 70s is related to other things.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

Because they did drop the ball. Badly. The whole clan should hang their heads and quit trying to scapegoat in a desperate bid to make their own neglect somehow her fault. Worse, they're doing so using a political faction that is just as likely to turn on them, given half a chance. How they can accept this idiocy in the name of "honour" the African side of me just cannot fathom. Because, there is no honour in abandoning family against custom and then turning on it to hide your own shame. And, never has been (although people can and do do it — it doesn't suddenly turn it honourable).
Even if they are girls. <_<
edited 24th Jun '14 4:50:31 PM by Euodiachloris