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General Middle East & North Africa Thread

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Okay, every topic that has even remotely to do with the middle east keeps getting more general news put into it which removes focus from the original topic.

As such, I'm creating this thread as a general middle east and north africa topic. That means anything to do with the Arab Spring, Israel or Palestine should be kept to those threads and anything to do with more generic news (for example, new Saudi regulations on the number of foreign workers or the Lebanese elections next year, etc.) should be posted here.

I hope the mods will find this a clear enough statement of intent to open the thread.

Mod edit: The Israel and Palestine thread has been locked since October 2023. Discussion about Palestine and/or Israel remains off-topic for this thread. This also bans discussion of any military conflict, terrorism or extrajudicial actions involving one of them and a third country (e.g. Israel's air strikes in Yemen).

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 28th 2024 at 12:26:59 PM

BestOf FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC! from Finland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
#226: Jun 5th 2014 at 2:13:23 PM

It seems that the government can't afford to crush Boko Haram. And I mean "afford" in the sense that the word is usually used: Nigeria doesn't seem to have enough disposable money for this.

Well, that's the impression you get from the reported complaints of the soldiers. I do know that Nigeria actually has quite a lot of wealth, so to some extent it has to be a matter of priorities, as well.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#227: Jun 5th 2014 at 9:28:58 PM

Nigeria does not count as North Africa....

Perhaps an Africa thread should be made....

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#228: Jun 6th 2014 at 12:20:17 AM

[up] ... Ah, you're right. Somehow I confused Nigeria with Niger, which borders Libya and Algiers, and thus whatever unrest that would happen in it would likely affect the other two as well, if only because the Sahara's vast and inhospitable expanses make the borders more of a guideline than a definite boundary with proper security against illegal passage of people and goods.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#229: Jun 6th 2014 at 1:48:52 AM

[up]Any border in Africa tends to be leaky. Most of them are just that long.

Well, except for Malawi's. Of course. It's got some cute little borders for north and south!

edited 6th Jun '14 1:50:52 AM by Euodiachloris

BestOf FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC! from Finland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
#230: Jun 6th 2014 at 6:58:41 AM

For my part, I was replying to a post about Nigeria without paying any attention to which thread it was (as I had a bunch of tabs open). I should stop doing that - I'm constantly contributing to derails even though I'm supposed to be some kind of Moderator on these parts.

I'm even derailing right now!

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
demarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#231: Jun 6th 2014 at 4:14:09 PM

That's why we all love you, Best...

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#232: Jun 6th 2014 at 4:19:00 PM

Nah, let's have a coup tongue

REMOVE MÄMMI FROM THE PREMISES!

Just kidding, we are of love yuo really.

edited 6th Jun '14 4:19:17 PM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei
BestOf FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC! from Finland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
#233: Jun 6th 2014 at 7:48:21 PM

If you ask me you can indeed proceed to remove any mämmi you happen to find around these parts - I've tried it and it sucks.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
demarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#234: Jun 23rd 2014 at 7:34:53 PM

Death row Sudanese Christian ‘apostate’ freed

"A Sudanese Christian who gave birth in prison after being sentenced to hang for apostasy was freed Monday, her lawyer said.

The case of Meriam Yahia Ibrahim Ishag, 26, sparked an outcry from Western governments and rights groups after a judge sentenced her to death on May 15.

“Meriam was released just about an hour ago,” Mohanad Mustafa told AFP Monday afternoon."

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Ramidel Since: Jan, 2001
#235: Jun 23rd 2014 at 9:26:18 PM

Now all we need to do is force Sudan to take that law off the books.

Of course, the problem is that that law is part and parcel of the Islamic canon, but I've stated my position on that before.

chi_mangetsu Not a Tree from brink of the universe Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
Not a Tree
#236: Jun 24th 2014 at 11:22:18 AM

[up][up] About that...

What the hell, Sudan?

Oh, right—Sudan.

edited 24th Jun '14 11:29:38 AM by chi_mangetsu

"I'd like to be a tree." - Fluttershy
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#237: Jun 24th 2014 at 11:31:05 AM

... Wait, she was raised as a Christian by her mother (albeit without anyone else's knowledge)? Well, that's something that I didn't know when I first read about this. I'd guess that this presents an interesting problem to Islamic lawgivers; exactly how do you punish her for renouncing a faith that she had never held to begin with, and was only assumed to be holding due to unjustifiable ignorance on part of the rest of her family?

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#238: Jun 24th 2014 at 2:59:10 PM

Wait a sec: how is her being a Christian and marrying a Christian a stain on her father's side of the family... when he's the one who abandoned her mother and left a Christian woman to raise her little girl in Christianity — while they weren't interested enough in who either of them actually were, so didn't know any of this until they realised who her husband was?

Where be the logic?

edited 24th Jun '14 3:02:22 PM by Euodiachloris

chi_mangetsu Not a Tree from brink of the universe Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
Not a Tree
#239: Jun 24th 2014 at 3:00:07 PM

You're asking for logic?

In fundamentalist, organized religion?

Tsk tsk tsk.

edited 24th Jun '14 3:31:01 PM by chi_mangetsu

"I'd like to be a tree." - Fluttershy
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#240: Jun 24th 2014 at 3:00:48 PM

[up][up][up]

You don't. And you don't punish her for switching her religion either. It's not a very difficult issue at all.

edited 24th Jun '14 3:00:54 PM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei
Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#241: Jun 24th 2014 at 3:06:08 PM

[up][up]Yeah, yeah: the stock atheist response that denies that those with faith are even capable of logic. Go flipping jump. Doesn't matter if you believe something or nothing: you can still practice human decency and have some ability to string a logical thought together (and, I, for one, don't deny others the capacity to do so, organised religion or not).

And, even atheists can suck at both common human dignity and logic. So, shove it. Not impressed. <_< (And, rather annoyed, actually.) Never mind that I keep trying to wrap my head around honour and honour killings (which, as you probably know, have many more roots than simply religious ones).

edited 24th Jun '14 3:11:31 PM by Euodiachloris

chi_mangetsu Not a Tree from brink of the universe Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
Not a Tree
#242: Jun 24th 2014 at 3:28:58 PM

To those authorities, it doesn't matter what his mother was. Even if his father did abandon her when she was six, it doesn't matter—hell, he could have abandoned her when she was born—because within the purview of Islam, women are "delicate vessels" for a man's seed. She belongs to him, not her mother and certainly not to herself. That's why you won't find any logic here.

(Note: should have added "fundamentalist" to the above retort; amended.)

edited 24th Jun '14 3:31:34 PM by chi_mangetsu

"I'd like to be a tree." - Fluttershy
Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#243: Jun 24th 2014 at 3:36:31 PM

Because socially enforced illogical stupid assholery is what happens to every group under shit conditions.

You're not really asking why this happens, you're just asking for the sake of venting.

Euodiachloris Since: Oct, 2010
#244: Jun 24th 2014 at 3:43:17 PM

Still trying to wrap my head around how actively abandoning somebody to the point where you don't know basic things about them still gives you rights over them. <_< Because, there are two stages of abandonment going on, here.

So they have a genetic link: would have been nice if they'd kept a social link up. -_- And, I would have thought the moral link (whatever your culture and religious background) would demand that you see to looking after the child of your brother/ cousin/ nephew/ whatever even if he's taken for the hills, be they female or male. <_<

How can you cry about your rights over somebody being violated... when you fulfilled no (or minimal, at best) social obligations to them, either?

[down]Read the article, again. The family, themselves, have started to beat the honour drum now all this has come out. In, I strongly suspect, a desperate bid to bury the shame of not having noticed this themselves before it got to be "a problem". tongue Not that I'm suggesting the typical solution of e.g. taking the young girl from the mother when she was still a child (most likely outcome in parts of Africa I am familiar with) would be any better of an outcome... but, at least that would be practising some form of obligation to the child of your own flesh and blood. tongue Which then would hand you the right to go chest-beating about her later, perceived malfeasance in public.

edited 24th Jun '14 4:13:07 PM by Euodiachloris

Quag15 Since: Mar, 2012
#245: Jun 24th 2014 at 4:04:05 PM

Problem is, these arrests are not the father's fault (though, of course, he's to blame for the abandonment). It's the fundamentlist Islamic authorities who are so patriarchical they would never even consider the most level-headed female opinion.

So, the problem is not only the father, but mostly the ones who share the same religion and are fundamentalist bigots of the worst kind for treating her like this.

edited 24th Jun '14 4:04:26 PM by Quag15

demarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#246: Jun 24th 2014 at 4:10:55 PM

Apparently they have re-arrested her: Released Sudanese Christian woman detained at airport

"A Sudanese Christian woman who was sentenced to die for refusing to renounce her faith — and then released — was detained with her family on Tuesday as they tried to leave the African country.

Her legal team told CNN that Mariam Yehya Ibrahim, her American husband, Daniel Wani, and their two children were stopped at an airport in Khartoum and interrogated at national security headquarters in the Sudanese capital.

The problem involved what the legal team described as an alleged "irregularity with her documentation," according to Ibrahim's lawyers, who said she was in police custody.

Ibrahim has a U.S. visa and was headed to the United States with her family, her legal team said. The U.S. State Department said the family was stopped at the airport."

@Euo: It seems to me that this is pretty clearly a power play by hard line Islamist authorities.

edited 24th Jun '14 4:12:05 PM by demarquis

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
chi_mangetsu Not a Tree from brink of the universe Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
Not a Tree
#247: Jun 24th 2014 at 4:14:40 PM

Generally, but not always, the male takes a double share of the woman. The reason is that there is a distinguished difference (man and his duties are seen as superior to women's) between the role to be played by men and women, thus giving the man a larger portion.

The consequences of an absent father

Yes, a mother is the child’s first school but it is the father who is most important in teaching his children what the world is all about. He is the one who helps to establish moral and social values in the lives of his daughters and sons for he is their link with the outside world. He goes out daily into the outside world and he thus has full knowledge of what his children will be faced with. It is his duty to make them aware of the possible pitfalls they may encounter out there and help them by preparing them to deal with these pitfalls and other challenges.

He is also the parent who has a great deal of influence over his children in terms of their interests, be they academic, religious, social or otherwise. When a father takes an interest in the children’s education, they are more motivated to do well and to be “like father”. Not only sons but daughters also love to impress their fathers and they often want to do well because, “my father will be so happy with me”. They identify more with the father’s qualities and code of life. This in turn helps to improve their self-esteem, confidence and identity of who they are as Muslims. They are better able to stand up to negative peer pressure and are more receptive towards avoiding evil.

Rights of a father who abandoned his family for 22 years

Indeed, those children should know that they are obliged to be kind and dutiful to their father and obey him within what is permissible. His mistreatment to them is not a sound reason for them to disobey him, because Allaah ordered us to be kind and dutiful to our parents even if they are non-Muslims and even if they try to lead us astray, let alone if they are Muslims. ... As regards not going to see him in your aunt’s house when he asked you to go to see him there, then if there is no sound reason for you for not going there to see him, then you are wrong for not going because you are obliged to obey him within what is permissible. The fact that you heard that he supplicated against you is not a sound reason for disobeying him. Moreover, he might be embarrassed for being negligent towards you in the past and it is for this reason that he did not come straight away to your house. ... As regards your mother, you are also obliged to be kind and dutiful to her and obey her within what is permissible, but if she orders you to do an act of disobedience, then it is not an obligation to obey her, like when she orders you to stay away from your father, so you are not obliged to obey her in this.

"I'd like to be a tree." - Fluttershy
demarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#248: Jun 24th 2014 at 4:19:48 PM

Nowhere in any of those articles, of course, does it say anything about sentencing a woman to death.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
chi_mangetsu Not a Tree from brink of the universe Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
Not a Tree
#249: Jun 24th 2014 at 4:22:23 PM

[up] They claimed she changed her religion from Islam to Christianity which was not the case, but in their eyes, that's called apostasy and it's punishable byyy... drum roll, please...

Death!

edited 24th Jun '14 4:31:41 PM by chi_mangetsu

"I'd like to be a tree." - Fluttershy
chi_mangetsu Not a Tree from brink of the universe Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
Not a Tree
#250: Jun 24th 2014 at 4:27:27 PM

World Cup Victory Celebration Video Gets Three Arrested in Iran

...

This shit is testing my patience.

"I'd like to be a tree." - Fluttershy

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