A general discussion thread for all things DC Comics. Topics may be split off into their own threads if necessary. That said, since there's already a thread
for the D Cn U (aka Nu52), this one would probably stick to pre-Nu52 comics to avoid redundancy.
I've always wondered if there's a justification for Wonder Woman's outfit being designed after a modern-day one-piece swimsuit/leotard instead of something that would fit her Greco-Roman mythological background (e.g. Amazons were more often than not depicted as wearing trousers
◊note ). A few attempted redesigns had her adopt Lady Legionnaire Wear for a skirt, but they never stuck. And then of course, there's her pants-wearing design during J. Michael Straczynski's run (courtesy of artist Jim Lee).
edited 27th Dec '13 7:51:31 AM by MarqFJA
Unless someone throws some solid proof at DC's feet that Neil Gaiman ripped off that science fiction magazine writer when creating the Endless, I don't see why they wouldn't use his stuff.
Which reminds me, I really should look into the validity of that accusation. I'm not going to do it today, but I'm going to put in on my "to do" list.
On a side note, I hope DC can make Doctor Occult and Rose Psychic two separate people again. And stop pretending like Rose saved Occult from the zombie drug, because she was a valuable Side Kick and all but I kind of dislike the historical revisionism to make her more important than she actually was. Just admit she was underused in the original run and use her better going forward. She was already progressive for the 1930s.
On another side note. I hope that if Lizzie can successfully save Steve Trevor it will lead to her having a little sister named Hippolyte Trevor who wants to grow up to become Fury.
You know what, I like him as a writer, but I could write a book on all my little pet peeves I have with his work on DC comics, so I'll just stop now. Put my hopes and dreams are going after plagiarism investigation on that list.
Buldogue's lawyert's a tricky situation cause Sandman is one of DC's most acclaimed franchises.
The iconic series itself, the multitude of spin-offs, the entire universe with various writers adding to the setting. That's a lot of money for any company to just give up.
It's either throw away a ton of money or deal with the fact the guy responsible for it is disgraced as a human being.
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."![]()
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As far as plagiarism goes it seems to be not a thing
and disingenuous to the SA allegations by virtue of mentioning them as if they were equal.
Wouldn't that be like 90-something years?
Edited by lalalei2001 on Jun 22nd 2025 at 4:55:45 AM
The Protomen enhanced my life.
Yes, it would be. Or 90 years after Gaiman's death. Not sure. Either way, DC is in a position where they could forbid anyone from using his work until it falls in the public domain, where it wouldn't be as tainted by the association. And at that point, people would barely remember Gaiman's name anyway. He would die in obscurity, shunned and disowned for sins heinous, if DC wanted to.
Of course, as said before, that is big money they're leaving behind if they do so, and money I'm sure Zaslav would love to have on hand, if nothing else, then to pay off debts or to hoard. Which means it is not something DC would seriously consider even though they should.
My understanding of the Sandman rights is that DC owns the whole thing outright, but Gaiman was allowed regular oversight of the property's usage due to his respect within the industry, and if they want to cut him out and use the characters by themselves now that that respect has been lost that's within their rights.
Edited by lbssb on Jun 22nd 2025 at 5:23:50 AM
Disney100 Marathon | DreamWorks MarathonI'm not denying that the sexual assault claims are more important than the plagiarism claims, but they're not relevant as to whether DC can or can't use the Endless. Father Time is a public domain character, Mother Night can easily be made into any number of public domain characters, and the Endless were made for DC. They're all fair game unless the Endless specifically encroach on someone else's copyright or trademark.
I stated I wasn't going to look into it today, but I did read the blog post denying the plagiarism charge and it is far more convincing that the claim he ripped off Tanith Lee. I took that statement with a grain of salt to begin with, I just don't have Tanith Lee books on hand to disprove it. Neil being innocent of anything doesn't change my criticism of Gaiman's work, not that I've actually been critical of Gaiman's work on these forums. I could go into depth on what's wrong in Black Orchid, Books of Magic, Sandman but so far that hasn't been relevant to my points. What I have been critical of are Gaiman's choices regarding things he did not create. Some are okay for his story but don't help anyone else who has to use the characters going forward. It shouldn't have taken a sexual assault charge to change people's minds on Doctor Occult and Rose Psychic sharing a body. It shouldn't have taken a plagiarism charge. It shouldn't have even taken a critique of Sandman, or Books of Magic, or Black Orchid as standalone works. Just change things. There was no precedent for Gaiman's changes in the first place. There's definitely no reason for his decisions to stand after Flashpoint or Rebirth.
DC screws with what Jack Kirby established in his fourth world constantly. They've toyed around with Grant Morrison's Multiversity, they've altered Alan Moore's Watchmen, but we still can't have a version of Lyta Trevor as she was before Gaiman wrote her. No reboot, else world or otherwise can change that. Sure, leave Dream and the Endless how he wants them to be, but he didn't create Black Orchid. Let's just drop the Swamp Thing stuff already. He didn't make Poison Ivy so lets just get Jason Woodrow out of there since Marc LeGrand is serviceable enough and Woodrow just makes the universe look smaller. I guess DC technically hasn't been completely reverent to Lord Gaiman, as they have Superman as hope's embodiment when that was Dream, but that happens to be a case where I really wish they had stuck to Gaiman's precedent. Again, I'm fine with not stepping on the toes of his characters, I just want less deference in cases where he's not the creator.
Buldogue's lawyerWhile as far as I understand it I think that ![]()
is right in how it works and that DC shouldn’t have any issues regardless, it’s worth noting that whether a character in a general sense is in the public domain doesn’t matter regarding whether they’re under copyright or not if what you’re actually looking at is a specific creator’s *version* of that character.
If Gaiman did plagiarize Sandman, which it looks like he actually didn’t, but if for arguments sake he had, it could’ve put DC in a lot of trouble.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Jun 22nd 2025 at 3:46:40 AM
Though Lyta's also just a victim of circumstance: being an Earth-2 Wonder Woman character introduced just a few years before Crisis, and whose existence doesn't make sense unless Wonder Woman's already been around for decades, meant being re-written from the ground up to fit the new continuity. That worked okay for turning Helena Wayne into Helena Bertinelli, but you can't expect that to pan out for everyone.
Normally I'd say the solution to Lyta Trevor would to just be patient and introduce her in due time, but I realize Roy Thomas had a book to salvage. I honestly don't know what I would have done with All-Star Squadron during the Crisis event, much less afterwards. So whatever, Lyta basically gets thrown under the bus, Post Crisis, Pre Flashpoint. I can accept that.
Okay, but New 52, no Lyta. Okay, Superman's dating Wonder Woman, so I guess that's a given, but there's Earth Two, there's a Fury, and it's Donna? Whatever you say DC.
But now it's Rebirth, Diana's dating Steve again, I'm imagining they're just waiting for some One Year Later type event or what not but issue 800, Elizabeth Marston Prince? Okay...Absolute Power big summer event and...Lyta's in the well of souls? How can she be dead when she hasn't been born? I get it, things had to change for Crisis On Infinite Earths. Every character doesn't have to be in every iteration of the DCU. But as a fan of Wonder Woman and a fan of Neil Gaiman's Sandman, it makes no sense for the latter to have the final say on a Wonder Woman character seemingly forever. A concession was made for Crisis, fine. Gaiman ran with that concession. Also fine. But Crisis is old news now. So is Sandman. A classic, sure, but an old classic nonetheless. If Sandman should have the final say on anything, Dream being the hope of the DCU would be it, but Superman can take that away for...reasons. Like the Infinite Frontier combined all his aspects into one, even though that shouldn't have anything to do with undergoing Abstract Apotheosis into literal hope and no one else underwent the process, including those more responsible for the Infinite Frontier's existence than he...well now I'm getting off topic. If Gaiman is convicted and rots under the jail I won't mourn him. I'm still fine with respecting the characters and concepts he created for the DCU. They're largely classics that don't need much changing. Everything else he penned should be as fair game as it was for him, especially when the setting is resetting. Crisis put Trevor with Candy. Fine. Flashpoint put Diana with Clark(or with some New God in its Earth 2), fine. Rebirth put Diana back with Steve though. Fury should follow. Or at least Lyta Trevor should follow.
Buldogue's lawyerActually, I imagine it isn't "industry goodwill" that gave Gaiman oversight and input on uses of the Sandman characters—I expect he's got a contract with DC that guarantees that for him. I wouldn't be surprised if that contract got renegotiated when its option comes up, but I expect DC is at present legally obligated to include Gaiman in any Sandman related projects.
The story I've always heard is that it's a gentleman's agreement of sorts between DC and Gaiman, not a binding legal one. Gaiman was a commodity and they didn't want to alienate him the way they'd done to Alan Moore, at least that's the story I recall. IIRC Garth Ennis is in a similar situation regarding Hitman, while he owns Preacher wholeside.
But that's going from memory. Gaiman, if that doesn't fail me, wasn't all that pleased with Didi's cameo in the Lobo's Back miniseries but let it slide.
Edit: Looking back for the sources. A lot of that seems to be in sites that just appear to have vanished since I read 'em years ago. Like in I don't even recall the titles to put them in the Wayback Machine. It's amazing how much of the old Internet is gone.
Edited by TomWithoutJerry on Jun 25th 2025 at 3:02:17 PM
Please remember that, ultimately, fictional works of entertainment are just that.So in terms of political story's
This weeks Green Arrow introduces a new evil vigilante, Crimson Archer who is killing off the "undesirables" of the city like the homeless by shooting them with arrows laced with a terrible drug called Crimson Sand.
So they OD as they die. Pretty brutal, Roy unfortunately got hit with an arrow in his heart causing him a forced relapse.
Edited by slimcoder on Jun 25th 2025 at 3:34:53 AM
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."It also mentions that the current reason the JSA are much younger than they should be is that they got trapped in another dimension for several decades. Is that also new? Quite different from the previous explanation, which was quite literally A Wizard Did It.
Osgood Arnsby is from All-Star Squadron, though Phantom Lady insists he must be lying. Secret Origins later states his real name is Doctor Occult, with him and Rose Psychic being adopted by a man who didn't speak English as his first language but decided to give them English names anyway. Rose insisted that Doctor Occult legally change at least his first name, so he settled on "Richard" but then went to school to earn a doctorate, earning the right to be called Doctor Occult.
Buldogue's lawyer![]()
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Could be a reference to The Last Days Of The Justice Society, which ended with them in limbo until they eventually broke out.

Oh shoot, they got Dream and Death?! I was wondering about them because their creator's a dirtbag of dirtbags…