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This thread was originally opened in 2013 during the revolt that eventually overthrew the Yanukovyich regime and instituted democratic elections. Since the Russian invasion that began in February 2022, it's been repurposed to focus on the conflict. Some people have expressed the view that the confrontation between Russia and Ukraine, beginning in 2014, never really ended.

Although at one time claims were made that different segments of Ukrainian society were more aligned with Russia than the West, the invasion seems to have resulted in a higher level of Ukrainian unity in the face of Russian military aggression. Although it is hard to document public opinion in the occupied areas, there was never very much evidence in favor of support for the Russian annexation of sections of Ukraine.

The invasion is also a result of certain grievances proclaimed by Vladimir Putin, the current President of Russia, and used by him as justification for armed attack and occupation. Western governments, and others around the world, have joined together in condemnation of this attack.

While we do not know what the ultimate outcome of these events will be, this thread will continue to be made available as a place to record news, ask questions and express opinions about the "Crisis in Ukraine."

This map will help track the latest developments.

Mod notes

  • Do not post anything about the Ukrainian military movement and strategy. This could actually result in casualties.

  • No discussion regarding nuclear war. As nuclear weapons are not being used by either side, nuclear war is off-topic.

  • When posting social media links, please (1) state the source [e.g. Reuters reporter? State-sponsored Facebook account? Civilian Twitter/X?] (2) clarify if it is fact or opinion and (3) summarize the information being presented. If, for example, it's a single civilian voice on Twitter/X, is it really trustworthy or relevant?

    Previous text of OP 
Ukraine protests: Thousands march through capital- over 100,000 by some counts

Ukrainian protesters besiege government building

Clashes amid huge Ukraine protest against U-turn on EU

Over 300,000 defy protest ban in Ukraine- "Fierce clashes erupt after protesters take to streets again, chanting "revolution" as anger against government grows."

What started as a protest against the decision not to sign an agreement with the EU seems to have escalated into a "Color Revolution" or "Arab Spring" style movement to force the government to resign. By some reports, the police are using violent tactics to suppress the street protests.

The Western half of the Ukraine has historically felt closer to Europe , and wants to move Ukrainian society in that direction. Eastern Ukraine feels culturally closer to Russia, and favors closer relations with that country. The current regime of President Viktor Yanukovich is part of that camp. The current confrontations can be seen as a clash between these two halves of Ukrainian society.Ukraine protests: Thousands march through capital- over 100,000 by some counts

Ukrainian protesters besiege government building

Clashes amid huge Ukraine protest against U-turn on EU

Over 300,000 defy protest ban in Ukraine- "Fierce clashes erupt after protesters take to streets again, chanting "revolution" as anger against government grows."

What started as a protest against the decision not to sign an agreement with the EU seems to have escalated into a "Color Revolution" or "Arab Spring" style movement to force the government to resign. By some reports, the police are using violent tactics to suppress the street protests.

The Western half of the Ukraine has historically felt closer to Europe , and wants to move Ukrainian society in that direction. Eastern Ukraine feels culturally closer to Russia, and favors closer relations with that country. The current regime of President Viktor Yanukovich is part of that camp. The current confrontations can be seen as a clash between these two halves of Ukrainian society.


EDIT (2/24/2022)

This thread was originally opened in 2013 during the beginning of the revolt in Ukraine that eventually over-threw the dictatorship of the Yanukovyich regime and instituted democratic elections soon afterward. As of this writing, in the aftermath of the Russian invasion that began on 2/23, it is not clear whether or for how long Ukraine will continue to exist as an independent country.

Statements made nine years ago still seem relevant: "The Western half of the Ukraine has historically felt closer to Europe , and wants to move Ukrainian society in that direction. Eastern Ukraine feels culturally closer to Russia, and favors closer relations with that country... The current confrontations can be seen as a clash between these two halves of Ukrainian society." Some people have expressed the view that the confrontation between Russia and Ukraine, beginning in 2014, never really ended.

The invasion is also a result of certain grievances proclaimed by Vladimir Putin, the current President of Russia, and used by him as justification for armed attack and occupation. Western governments, and others around the world, have joined together in condemnation of this attack.

While we do not know what the ultimate outcome of these events will be, this thread will continue to be made available as a place to record news, ask questions and express opinions about the "Crisis in Ukraine."

This map will help track the latest developments.

Do not post anything about the Ukrainian military movement and strategy. This could actually result in casualties.

No discussion regarding nuclear war. As nuclear weapons are not being used by either side, nuclear war is off-topic.

When posting social media links, please (1) state the source [e.g. Reuters reporter? State-sponsored Facebook account? Civilian Twitter?] (2) clarify if it is fact or opinion and (3) summarize the information being presented.

Edited by DeMarquis on Dec 25th 2024 at 7:44:33 AM

kory MOD Admin (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Admin
#36301: Feb 19th 2025 at 11:15:28 AM

Cmon, you know US politics is off limits.

Now Monitoring Query Bugs and Query Wishlist
Smeagol17 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#36302: Feb 19th 2025 at 11:32:44 AM

Well, I would think that was no more “US politics” than other mentions of the US here, but I defer to your judgment.

TomWithoutJerry Tyranny Bad, Democracy Good. from Where Might Makes Right and I have no Might. Since: Dec, 2023
Tyranny Bad, Democracy Good.
#36303: Feb 19th 2025 at 11:41:51 AM

If the US end up arbitring an outcome, or the outcome otherwise resulting from its decisions then it's nearly impossible to discuss said outcome following such guidelines.

That's the problem with the biggest actor in international politics being barred from discussion of international politics. The touchy issues mostly seem to come out when internal politics are discussed so might I suggest at least some leeway when international interactions are discused?

Because most of these international discussions are being forced to lack a major piece of key context so they become borderline useless.

Edited by TomWithoutJerry on Feb 19th 2025 at 3:45:33 PM

Please remember that, ultimately, fictional works of entertainment are just that.
Grounder Main Character Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: All is for my lord
Main Character
#36304: Feb 19th 2025 at 12:30:07 PM

The way things are currently going, I feel like anyone living in Ukraine should probably come to terms with the fact that they're getting surrendered by proxy, here.

It's not right by any means, but barring a 180 by at least one party, that's how the wind seems to be blowing.sad

Resileafs I actually wanted to be Resileaf Since: Jan, 2019
I actually wanted to be Resileaf
#36305: Feb 19th 2025 at 12:37:31 PM

It's not like the US can force Ukrainians to stand down though. Losing US support will be very rough, but if Europe manages to fill the gap, they'll still be able to defend themselves.

Risa123 Since: Dec, 2021 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#36306: Feb 19th 2025 at 12:44:01 PM

[up] As I much as I want to hate on US right now Europe is a failure as well.

Edited by Risa123 on Feb 19th 2025 at 9:44:27 PM

Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#36307: Feb 19th 2025 at 12:51:45 PM

Yeah, don't count on Europe to pick up the bill here. I doubt we'll ever get our shit together unless Russia actually does invade us.

Guess that could be nice, in a "Holy shit that sucked, but it all worked out four generations later" kinda way.

WillKeaton from Alberta, Canada Since: Jun, 2010
#36308: Feb 19th 2025 at 12:54:12 PM

Isn't there a decent chance they'll help Ukraine, simply because if the don't, they'll be next?

Risa123 Since: Dec, 2021 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Kayeka (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#36310: Feb 19th 2025 at 1:02:28 PM

[up][up]No. Individual states might, but the fact is that most people want to stay out of it. And if the US leaves, then the situation will be deemed hopeless, and people will want to stop throwing money down the well.

Edited by Kayeka on Feb 19th 2025 at 10:04:51 AM

Risa123 Since: Dec, 2021 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#36311: Feb 19th 2025 at 1:05:58 PM

@Will Keaton We had years to propare, yet we failed to do much.

Edited by Risa123 on Feb 19th 2025 at 10:07:34 AM

DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#36312: Feb 19th 2025 at 1:39:35 PM

[up][up]

And then Russia will invade the Baltics a few years afterwards and people will ask how it could ever come to that.

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
Resileafs I actually wanted to be Resileaf Since: Jan, 2019
I actually wanted to be Resileaf
#36313: Feb 19th 2025 at 1:40:28 PM

Can't wait for the inevitable European complaints of a refugee crisis.

DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#36314: Feb 19th 2025 at 1:42:07 PM

Especially from the people who are both anti-refugee and against sending aid.

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
minseok42 A Self-inflicted Disaster from A Six-Tatami Room (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
A Self-inflicted Disaster
#36315: Feb 19th 2025 at 8:14:53 PM

Don't the people who complain about refugees only complain about people of color?

"Enshittification truly is how platforms die"-Cory Doctorow
DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#36316: Feb 19th 2025 at 8:20:51 PM

No. Heck, the leader of Germany's main conservative party literally made up a story of how people had to wait longer at the dentist's because of Ukrainian refugees (it's complete bullshit) at one point.

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Feb 19th 2025 at 5:23:40 PM

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
Resileafs I actually wanted to be Resileaf Since: Jan, 2019
I actually wanted to be Resileaf
#36317: Feb 19th 2025 at 9:09:07 PM

The Irish have a very long history of being discriminated against, both in the UK and in America. The Italians as well, to a lesser extent. You may have also noticed that anti-French sentiment is very common on the internet and French-Canadians in particular tend to get the worst of it.

Edited by Resileafs on Feb 19th 2025 at 12:11:03 PM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#36318: Feb 19th 2025 at 10:08:34 PM

Yeah, bigotry in Europe isn’t quite as color based as it is in the USA. There is still some.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Risa123 Since: Dec, 2021 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#36319: Feb 19th 2025 at 11:05:03 PM

Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, February 19, 2025

  • cutt-off was 1:30 pm ET.
  • US talks about permanent settlment and it being acceptable to all parties involved. US parterns in europe were explicitly inclued. (note: color me skeptical you have not even included them in negotiations yet)
  • Luthuania announced aid.
  • Ukraine continues to attack Russian energy facilities.
  • Ukraine advanced near Vovchansk and Toretsk.
  • Russsia advanced near Borova, Siversk, Pokrovsk, Kurakhove, and Velyka Novosilka.
  • Russia's regions are allegeldy halting recruitment of foreigners that do not speak Russia.

My country has a "Ukrainian cleaning lady" stereotype. So absolutly people will complain. I mean they already do. Remember the pro-Russian troll recently. They called them "Uk's" that is a slur. That is why outside of some NationalCringe I was skeptical of my country's support for Ukraine. So people did not even care to differtiate between Russian's and Ukrainian's.

Also, if disapear from the thread for some time do not be suprised. Lately I have had some anexity and "Munich flashbacks". I have considered break, but we will ssee.

Edited by Risa123 on Feb 19th 2025 at 8:09:44 PM

Smeagol17 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#36320: Feb 19th 2025 at 11:36:59 PM

I don’t understand ISW here. They don’t report on Ukraine’s internal military and political situation, that’s understandable (not really, but ok). But them reporting on current negotiations while not even mentioning Trump’s statements is laughable.

Edited by Smeagol17 on Feb 19th 2025 at 10:37:53 PM

Ominae Since: Jul, 2010
#36321: Feb 20th 2025 at 3:53:23 AM

I'll go look for articles that Ukraine rigged up FPV drone goggles meant for the Russian soldiers in eastern Ukraine that would blow up in their face.

Also, the first TOS-2 (successor of the TOS-1) was taken out in Pokrovsk.

Smeagol17 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#36322: Feb 20th 2025 at 3:57:48 AM

Goggles are old and busted, chocolate is the new hotness.

Edited by Smeagol17 on Feb 20th 2025 at 3:35:52 PM

Risa123 Since: Dec, 2021 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#36324: Feb 21st 2025 at 9:10:37 AM

Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, February 20, 2025

  • cutt-off was 11:45 am ET.
  • Ukraine advanced near Pokrovsk.
  • Russia advanced near Pokrovsk and Velyka Novosilka.
  • Russia is alledly increasing production of glide bombs and improving cruise missiles.

Ominae Since: Jul, 2010
#36325: Feb 22nd 2025 at 12:28:35 AM

https://x.com/trip_to_valkiri/status/1731702773840822326

Spotted this photo of a captured T-62M with Ukranian TDF, used in 2023. Has "Leopard 2" painted on it.


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