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This thread was originally opened in 2013 during the revolt that eventually overthrew the Yanukovyich regime and instituted democratic elections. Since the Russian invasion that began in February 2022, it's been repurposed to focus on the conflict. Some people have expressed the view that the confrontation between Russia and Ukraine, beginning in 2014, never really ended.

Although at one time claims were made that different segments of Ukrainian society were more aligned with Russia than the West, the invasion seems to have resulted in a higher level of Ukrainian unity in the face of Russian military aggression. Although it is hard to document public opinion in the occupied areas, there was never very much evidence in favor of support for the Russian annexation of sections of Ukraine.

The invasion is also a result of certain grievances proclaimed by Vladimir Putin, the current President of Russia, and used by him as justification for armed attack and occupation. Western governments, and others around the world, have joined together in condemnation of this attack.

While we do not know what the ultimate outcome of these events will be, this thread will continue to be made available as a place to record news, ask questions and express opinions about the "Crisis in Ukraine."

This map will help track the latest developments.

Mod notes

  • Do not post anything about the Ukrainian military movement and strategy. This could actually result in casualties.

  • No discussion regarding nuclear war. As nuclear weapons are not being used by either side, nuclear war is off-topic.

  • When posting social media links, please (1) state the source [e.g. Reuters reporter? State-sponsored Facebook account? Civilian Twitter/X?] (2) clarify if it is fact or opinion and (3) summarize the information being presented. If, for example, it's a single civilian voice on Twitter/X, is it really trustworthy or relevant?

    Previous text of OP 
Ukraine protests: Thousands march through capital- over 100,000 by some counts

Ukrainian protesters besiege government building

Clashes amid huge Ukraine protest against U-turn on EU

Over 300,000 defy protest ban in Ukraine- "Fierce clashes erupt after protesters take to streets again, chanting "revolution" as anger against government grows."

What started as a protest against the decision not to sign an agreement with the EU seems to have escalated into a "Color Revolution" or "Arab Spring" style movement to force the government to resign. By some reports, the police are using violent tactics to suppress the street protests.

The Western half of the Ukraine has historically felt closer to Europe , and wants to move Ukrainian society in that direction. Eastern Ukraine feels culturally closer to Russia, and favors closer relations with that country. The current regime of President Viktor Yanukovich is part of that camp. The current confrontations can be seen as a clash between these two halves of Ukrainian society.Ukraine protests: Thousands march through capital- over 100,000 by some counts

Ukrainian protesters besiege government building

Clashes amid huge Ukraine protest against U-turn on EU

Over 300,000 defy protest ban in Ukraine- "Fierce clashes erupt after protesters take to streets again, chanting "revolution" as anger against government grows."

What started as a protest against the decision not to sign an agreement with the EU seems to have escalated into a "Color Revolution" or "Arab Spring" style movement to force the government to resign. By some reports, the police are using violent tactics to suppress the street protests.

The Western half of the Ukraine has historically felt closer to Europe , and wants to move Ukrainian society in that direction. Eastern Ukraine feels culturally closer to Russia, and favors closer relations with that country. The current regime of President Viktor Yanukovich is part of that camp. The current confrontations can be seen as a clash between these two halves of Ukrainian society.


EDIT (2/24/2022)

This thread was originally opened in 2013 during the beginning of the revolt in Ukraine that eventually over-threw the dictatorship of the Yanukovyich regime and instituted democratic elections soon afterward. As of this writing, in the aftermath of the Russian invasion that began on 2/23, it is not clear whether or for how long Ukraine will continue to exist as an independent country.

Statements made nine years ago still seem relevant: "The Western half of the Ukraine has historically felt closer to Europe , and wants to move Ukrainian society in that direction. Eastern Ukraine feels culturally closer to Russia, and favors closer relations with that country... The current confrontations can be seen as a clash between these two halves of Ukrainian society." Some people have expressed the view that the confrontation between Russia and Ukraine, beginning in 2014, never really ended.

The invasion is also a result of certain grievances proclaimed by Vladimir Putin, the current President of Russia, and used by him as justification for armed attack and occupation. Western governments, and others around the world, have joined together in condemnation of this attack.

While we do not know what the ultimate outcome of these events will be, this thread will continue to be made available as a place to record news, ask questions and express opinions about the "Crisis in Ukraine."

This map will help track the latest developments.

Do not post anything about the Ukrainian military movement and strategy. This could actually result in casualties.

No discussion regarding nuclear war. As nuclear weapons are not being used by either side, nuclear war is off-topic.

When posting social media links, please (1) state the source [e.g. Reuters reporter? State-sponsored Facebook account? Civilian Twitter?] (2) clarify if it is fact or opinion and (3) summarize the information being presented.

Edited by DeMarquis on Dec 25th 2024 at 7:44:33 AM

lordGacek Since: Jan, 2001
#276: Feb 21st 2014 at 11:18:08 AM

Supposed to be monitored by the Council of Europe. Whether that works, we'll see, but I can't imagine how sure of himself Yanukovych would have to be to risk all of that falling on him again. In any case, there has been no declaration that he won't run in the elections.

Two fun pics: 1note , 2note 

I'm thinking the EU negotiators are going to earn some immense respect now, not that I would call it unjustified. Gotta come in handy when applying for EU positions. In a quick interview, Polish Minister of Foreign Affairs praised the Russian delegate, the ombudsman Vladimir Lukin, as "constructive and helpful" and that he helped to break the impass at two or three points. Although, as I am told, Prof. Lukin did not sign the deal in the end, citing lack of clear answer to several issues and quickly changing situation as a reason for his reluctance.

There was some dissent on Maidan concerning the deal, but the prevailing opinion among the protesters seems to be in favour. I am also told that Russian Duma issued a declaration that sounds rather conciliatory in tone.

edited 21st Feb '14 11:28:25 AM by lordGacek

Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#277: Feb 21st 2014 at 11:24:37 AM

There's a lot of people unhappy with this deal, though - it gives Yanukovich several months' breathing room and an escape route by which he can reverse the loss of powers he'd suffer here. Many of the protesters aren't huge fans of the idea of giving that to someone responsible for the deaths of over a hundred people. It's not just the neo-Nazis baying for blood by a long shot, and Ukraine's troubles may not be over yet.

What's precedent ever done for us?
Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#279: Feb 21st 2014 at 11:32:10 AM

From the Maidan's English Facebook page:

Summary & Analysis of today's vote:

The Ukrainian Parliament just voted overwhelmingly to re-enact the Constitutional amendments passed in 2004, and then cancelled by the Yanukovych-controlled Constitutional Court in 2010. In other words, Ukraine just became a Parliamentary-Presidential republic again. This means Yanukovych still retains power over the army, and over foreign affairs (Defense and Foreign Ministers remain Presidential appointees), but the rest of the executive branch is now accountable to Parliament. A new formalized coalition majority must now be created in Parliament which will then appoint a new Prime Minister and approve all other Ministerial appointments. Note: there is a possible trap for the opposition here - currently their factions do not formally have enough votes in Parliament to create a coalition. If the Party of Regions can be re-instated as a monolithic entity, and then a deal struck with the Communists and some independents, the new majority may be just as pro-Yanukovych (authoritarian) as under the previous system. Immediately after the Constitutional vote, Parliament also voted with overwhelming unanimity to pass a new law that grants blanket immunity to all those involved in anti-government activities and violence. Not sure about the exact text of this immunity yet... Maidan does not trust any of this, and frankly, I'm with the radicals on this one: as long as Yanukovych is in office, the protests will continue.

Prof. Mychailo Wynnycky, Kyiv-Mohyla Academy

What's precedent ever done for us?
lordGacek Since: Jan, 2001
#280: Feb 21st 2014 at 12:09:27 PM

[up] That last sentence sums up what I was thinking of. The gathered, seems like, will stay on Maidan until they're sure their demands and achievements are secured. Which is gonna be some time.EDIT  On the other hand, while they remain skeptical, they've also agreed to accept the deal. So far the threat of martial law or civil war seems to have been averted, at least at the moment, which is good.

edited 21st Feb '14 12:14:45 PM by lordGacek

lordGacek Since: Jan, 2001
#281: Feb 21st 2014 at 1:29:02 PM

Bumpin': whoops, seems like the agreement has a bit less popular acceptance than it looked at first. The far right faction's rhetoric might've been a bit less belligerent. If you know what I mean. I admit it seemed like it might sooner or later end up with the far right playing the part of Taborites at Lipany, but this ain't gonna be as fun if it happens at this moment. We'll see how this unfolds.

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#282: Feb 22nd 2014 at 12:06:19 AM

Ukraine crisis: President's Kiev offices 'unguarded'

The Kiev offices of Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych are unguarded, with opposition protesters apparently in full control of the government district, say BBC correspondents.

The BBC's Kevin Bishop says he was able to enter the complex unchallenged. Opposition leaders say President Yanukovych, whose whereabouts are unknown, must stand down immediately. They have called for elections by 25 May - not by the end of December as envisaged in Friday's peace deal. Despite the EU-mediated agreement signed on Friday, thousands of people have remained on the streets of Kiev.

As parliament met on Saturday morning, its speaker Volodymyr Rybak resigned, citing ill health.

Vitaly Klitschko, leader of the opposition Udar party, told M Ps: "We must, as the people demand, adopt a resolution calling on Yanukovych to immediately resign."

President Yanukovych is not in parliament - there are unconfirmed reports he has left Kiev, with suggestions that he has travelled to Kharkiv in the east, close to the Russian border.

Our correspondent says there is no sign of security forces inside the previously heavily guarded presidential complex, though some government employees arrived for work.

Protesters are standing in the grounds of the building in disbelief, he adds.

"He's not here, none of his officials or anyone linked directly to the administration are here," said Ostap Kryvdyk, a protest leader, referring to the president.

Correspondents say police appear to have abandoned posts across the city, while the numbers gathered in Independence Square - known as the Maidan - are growing.

The deal has been met with scepticism by some of the thousands of protesters who remain in the square. Opposition leaders who signed it were booed and called traitors.

UPDATED: 0958 GMT to fit updated article. The situation is changing quickly.

edited 22nd Feb '14 1:58:35 AM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#283: Feb 22nd 2014 at 2:49:23 AM

A cool bit of BBC analysis (rare thing, I know) about the Russian perspective on Ukraine.

What's precedent ever done for us?
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#284: Feb 22nd 2014 at 5:12:50 AM

The Guardian's liveblog.

Tymoshenko is out of jail, or soon will be.

Schild und Schwert der Partei
demarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#285: Feb 22nd 2014 at 5:16:44 AM

From the BBC article:

"There is a widespread view in the West that Vladimir Putin is afraid of what is happening in Ukraine because it can serve as an example for the Russian opposition. This is a very simplified view. The Russian president draws parallels between developments in Kiev and the situation in Russia, but he sees them as confirmation that he is right."

Of course, those arent mutually incompatible perspectives.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Ever9 from Europe Since: Jul, 2011
#286: Feb 22nd 2014 at 5:51:44 AM

The empty presidential palace is being visited by the public.

There is a zoo in it.

And faux ancient ruins.

edited 22nd Feb '14 6:03:43 AM by Ever9

Cronosonic (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#287: Feb 22nd 2014 at 6:10:11 AM

So apparently, Yanukovych just declared he won't resign and called the protests a Fascist Revolution like 1933 Germany.

Is he trying to infuriate the protesters more and derail the agreement?

Ever9 from Europe Since: Jul, 2011
#288: Feb 22nd 2014 at 6:15:58 AM

The parliament is under protester control, so Yanukovych is declaring it's further actions illegitimate.

If now they impeach him, that sounds like the declaration of a civil war, with Yanukovych secure in the east and the government being pro-protester in the west.

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#289: Feb 22nd 2014 at 6:21:33 AM

Is he trying to infuriate the protesters more and derail the agreement?

Hard to say when a lot of the protesters called (and booed) those leaders that made the agreement traitorsnote  — basically, the agreement isn't anywhere near enough for them.

They want(ed) Yanukovych out now.

edited 22nd Feb '14 6:24:36 AM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On
Quag15 Since: Mar, 2012
#290: Feb 22nd 2014 at 6:54:10 AM

Wait, has Tymoshenko fulfilled her sentence already? Weren't there a couple of years left?

demarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#291: Feb 22nd 2014 at 6:56:18 AM

No, yes.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#292: Feb 22nd 2014 at 6:59:01 AM

From what I've seen, most folks seem to be ambivalent at best about her being freed - the problem wasn't that she was jailed, but that everyone else wasn't. As we've seen from the presidential palace, it appears to be standard practice for Ukranian premiers to defraud their country for vast amounts of money, and she was definitely not an exception on that count.

What's precedent ever done for us?
demarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#293: Feb 22nd 2014 at 7:05:01 AM

Yeah, if she wants to join the protest movement, she has some lost ground to make up. That said, it's a very good thing she is to be released.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
Ever9 from Europe Since: Jul, 2011
#294: Feb 22nd 2014 at 7:06:49 AM

[up][up][up][up] The parliament is at full speed releasing people, firing government people, and instating opposition leaders in the fired people's place.

In other news, the parliament is guarded only by protesters, with no police on sight.

edited 22nd Feb '14 7:07:13 AM by Ever9

Ever9 from Europe Since: Jul, 2011
#295: Feb 22nd 2014 at 7:25:01 AM

Motion of no confidence passed. Yanukovych is no longer president according to the parliament.

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#296: Feb 22nd 2014 at 7:27:10 AM

What about the army? They have been awfully quiet. And who will be interim president until new elections are called?

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#297: Feb 22nd 2014 at 7:28:09 AM

[up][up]Try telling him that.

Ukraine's embattled President Viktor Yanukovich has accused the opposition of staging a coup and has refused to give into demands to resign, according to AFP news agency.

He told local television station on Saturday that "everything happening today can primarily be described as vandalism, banditry and a coup d'etat. That is my assessment".

"I am not leaving the country for anywhere. I do not intend to resign. I am the legitimately elected president," Yanukovich told the television station in the eastern Ukrainian city of Kharkiv.

The embattled leader, who is thought to have travelled to eastern Ukraine, his power base, said he felt that his own security and the safety "of people close to me" was being threatened by protesters who had taken control of large parts of central Kiev after deadly clashes left about 80 dead.

He added that he had been given "security guarantees" by international mediators who helped him and the opposition sign a political pact on Friday aimed at ending the country's three-month crisis.

[up]The army's issued an announcement saying they're 'loyal to the nation' and will back whoever comes out on top. They're staying out of this.

edited 22nd Feb '14 7:30:50 AM by Iaculus

What's precedent ever done for us?
Ever9 from Europe Since: Jul, 2011
#298: Feb 22nd 2014 at 7:29:09 AM

[up][up]BBC: The head of Ukraine's armed forces says the military will not get involved in the political unrest, Interfax-Ukraine news agency reports. Yuriy Ilyin, Chief of the General Staff, said in a statement: "The armed forces personnel remain at their normal peacetime locations and perform their routine functions."

edited 22nd Feb '14 7:29:18 AM by Ever9

TheBatPencil from Glasgow, Scotland Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#299: Feb 22nd 2014 at 7:30:07 AM

Leaders of predominantly Russian-speaking regions in south-eastern Ukraine and Crimea have challenged the legitimacy of the national parliament in Kiev. At a meeting in Kharkiv, regional leaders said they were "taking all the powers into their hands" until the "constitutional order" is "guaranteed" in Kiev.

So we're now officially split right down the middle; exactly what we didn't want.

edited 22nd Feb '14 7:30:36 AM by TheBatPencil

And let us pray that come it may (As come it will for a' that)
TheBatPencil from Glasgow, Scotland Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#300: Feb 22nd 2014 at 7:47:27 AM

Yulia Tymoshenko has been released.

edited 22nd Feb '14 8:37:46 AM by TheBatPencil

And let us pray that come it may (As come it will for a' that)

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