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Misused: Ms Fanservice

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Deadlock Clock: Aug 23rd 2014 at 11:59:00 PM
dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#101: Dec 25th 2013 at 9:16:59 PM

That much context is no different from zero context, so...yeah, problematic.

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#102: Dec 26th 2013 at 9:27:27 PM

There has been absolutely no discussion, let alone argument, on the validity of Ms. Fanservice as a trope, only the quality of the examples. I'm more than a little cynical on all of the boob tropes we have (every possible way to show off the female body), but I will argue the strength of Ms. Fanservice as a strong and unique concept.

dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#103: Dec 27th 2013 at 3:12:40 PM

So what course of action should we take now?

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#104: Dec 27th 2013 at 3:43:56 PM

First move should be to make sure all the ZCE's on the main page are gone.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#105: Dec 27th 2013 at 9:07:26 PM

Clean up it is.

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
captainpat Since: Sep, 2010
#106: Dec 27th 2013 at 9:50:18 PM

No tweaking the description?

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#107: Dec 27th 2013 at 11:23:16 PM

He said "first move". ZCEs would have no place in the example list (except as commented-out lines, possibly) even if we redefine the trope.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#108: Dec 29th 2013 at 7:50:21 PM

Basically, let's focus on removing the examples that don't have details on why they're examples.

We can go back to those examples after we've decided on what guidelines should be used for Ms. Fanservice and Mr. Fanservice.

Are we agreed on that?

edited 30th Dec '13 7:02:21 PM by Serocco

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#110: Dec 30th 2013 at 7:02:35 PM

Anyone else?

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
xanderiskander Since: Mar, 2012
#112: Jan 1st 2014 at 10:34:02 AM

As some help for the description. I've noticed that some Ms.Fanservice characters are used as the show's eye candy for part of a work, but then are Put on a Bus, and lose their role as eye candy when the The Bus Comes Back.

At least that's the impression I got reading the Getting Crap Past the Radar article for the pokemon anime. BTW that page has some pretty hilarious entries.

edited 1st Jan '14 10:37:42 AM by xanderiskander

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#113: Jan 1st 2014 at 1:10:52 PM

That seems extremely specific, and I can't recall any examples of it.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
dRoy Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar from Most likely from my study Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
#114: Jan 30th 2014 at 12:54:13 PM

[up][up] Way too specific to be worth mentioning.

Okay, time for cleaning.

Holy crap, 4818 pages. I hope at they aren't listed in many Character sheets as ZCE.

edited 30th Jan '14 1:05:03 PM by dRoy

Continuously reading, studying, and (hopefully) growing.
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#115: Jan 31st 2014 at 12:51:13 AM

You'd probably be disappointed, D Roy.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#116: Jan 31st 2014 at 12:54:44 AM

1532 hits for "characters/", for the record.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#117: Jan 31st 2014 at 1:00:58 AM

On the other hand, in the past I've seen at least a few such ZCEs where it seemed that they were as such because the rest of the trope list contained enough Fanservice trope non-ZCEs that adding an explanation to the Ms. Fanservice entry probably seemed moot to whoever added the trope.

edited 31st Jan '14 1:01:24 AM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
crazysamaritan NaNo 4328 / 50,000 from Lupin III Since: Apr, 2010
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
#118: Feb 1st 2014 at 1:48:52 PM

But if the example itself lacks any context, it's still bad. Even if the context is "Popular tropes associated with this character are X, Y, and Z.", that's good context for a Mr/Ms Fanservice.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#119: Feb 11th 2014 at 3:17:39 AM

So... what, exactly, are we doing?

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
treelo Since: Jun, 2010
#120: Feb 11th 2014 at 4:23:41 AM

Reeling in fear of some 4,800 wicks. The only thing I've learned when it comes to certain tropes which have rampant misuse and high wick counts are to either tweak the trope description to include the misuse or we work at it over time before losing interest.

edited 11th Feb '14 4:25:52 AM by treelo

Serocco Serocco from Miami, Florida Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Serocco
#121: Feb 14th 2014 at 9:56:50 PM

We should probably tweak the guidelines.

In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#122: Feb 15th 2014 at 3:18:58 PM

If you mean the TRS guidelines, then I concur. This is not the place for it, though.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
MorganWick (Elder Troper)
#123: Feb 15th 2014 at 10:31:41 PM

I hope you don't mean changing them to say "run in fear of any page with a large number of intrawiki inbound links, even if the reason for the huge number of links is rampant misuse". (Not necessarily saying the latter is the case here.)

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#124: Feb 16th 2014 at 3:07:14 AM

No, more like in the opposite direction — though to what extent is not determined.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
treelo Since: Jun, 2010
#125: Feb 16th 2014 at 4:01:09 AM

Nobody wants to tackle a high level of misuse unless there's a group of people who really do want to fix it. If you find those people, you can end up with something like the CompleteMonster thread over in LT/P which is a trope with rampant misuse but it's getting cleaned. Most though end up like this and get pecked at until they're forgotten either through fatigue, disinterest or boredom. Can't get around those really.

You could write into guidelines that tropes which are misused must be cleaned but it's hard to find the manpower to get things done and far more people would be inclined to agree with watering down a trope to include the misuse as an accepted part of the trope under the reasoning that Tropes Are Not Narrow, Tropes Are Flexible and everyone figures that's what it is anyway so might as well accept it.

There, fixed the "misuse" as now the misuse is the trope and nobody needs to go fixing wicks, it's a kludge at best but it saves work.

edited 16th Feb '14 4:03:29 AM by treelo


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