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Austin Since: Jan, 2001
#151: Aug 20th 2017 at 5:40:48 AM

You've got to be kidding. These guys couldn't defend a damn bowl of Jell-O.

Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#152: Aug 20th 2017 at 6:01:55 AM

Brad Jones summed it up nicely in his review. "You know, Colleen really should be the fourth member of The Defenders." And yeah, I agree with that completely. She's far more interesting and impressive than Danny has been so far.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#153: Aug 20th 2017 at 6:22:06 AM

I think Danny has been far better in this series than in his own.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#154: Aug 20th 2017 at 6:24:01 AM

When he gets to play off of Luke Cage, he's actually pretty good. But when he's trying to act tough/angry, or just by himself/playing off of his own show's characters, yeah not nearly as good.

Also they still write him as an idiot, which is maddening at this point.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#155: Aug 20th 2017 at 6:47:49 AM

[up]To be honest I thought the other 3 were far bigger idiots when they decided to chain him up. If they hadn't maybe he wouldn't have been captured and Stick wouldn't have died. Danny was absolutely right, they played straight into their hands.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#156: Aug 20th 2017 at 7:02:30 AM

As I said they wrote them all as idiots (though Jessica a little bit less because she at least tried to calm them down and talk it out). Danny just gets the most flak for it because so many people don't like him, but in a way him acting like one is more forgivable because he is supposed to be still the child who is searching for his place in live while the others already have ample live experience.

And Colleen shouldn't be the fourth defender, she should be the only defender considering that she defeated the hand more or less on her own. She was the one with the plan and she was the one implementing in and she was the one actually killing one of the heads of the hand, something none of the Defenders managed, or even seriously tried to do.

Misiael Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: Dancing with myself
#157: Aug 20th 2017 at 7:55:44 AM

[up][up] That was the smartest thing they ever done in this series.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#158: Aug 20th 2017 at 8:23:01 AM

If the point of Danny is that he's an idiot, that doesn't excuse his bad acting. I don't see how being an idiot excuses atrocious acting like in the boardroom scene in Episode 3. Jones has always been better when he's relaxed and can show off Danny's more naive and childish side.

And yes, they should've had way more Colleen. Fuck, promote her to main character. Black Widow and Hawkeye didn't need their own movie to be Avengers, just put Colleen Wing in as a Defender, make her a main member in Season 2 or something. She's pretty much their Black Widow anyways.

Speaking of the Avengers, I'm assuming this whole situation was below Tony's pay grade?

edited 20th Aug '17 8:23:57 AM by AdricDePsycho

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#159: Aug 20th 2017 at 9:06:47 AM

[up]I actually opened up the Headscratcher subpage for that https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Headscratchers/TheDefenders2017

Find it highly unwise from the Hand to attempt to destroy NY.

[up][up]How?

edited 20th Aug '17 10:38:49 AM by Forenperser

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
Soble Since: Dec, 2013
#160: Aug 20th 2017 at 9:22:27 AM

Jesus christ the background colors on this show. I have never seen a show use the background this much.

Episode 4, right when Matt goes off at Stick he walks to the part of the restaurant bathed in red, with just a hint of purple - we switch right over to a drunk Jessica speaking to the mother from earlier. When the scene goes back to the restaurant, the sign we see has all four of the main character's primary colors, but the blue (Jessica's purple/bluish purple) is the most significant. The camera pans downward to the window still bathed in the red light where Matt's standing, with the dragon logo representing Danny and Luke's gold-yellow, and then we see them both at the table with a green light/filter over them. Even Danny's shoes and the counter as the camera pans up, and the light behind Luke, are bright yellow, right before Luke asks Danny a question.

It's probably a lot of filters, and it's not unprecedented - in the previous four shows, the red came in at the right moment when Matt was on the staircase after beating up 2/3's of a biker gang, the purple came in when Jessica was walking through a crowd and fearing the possibility of Kilgrave being near, the gold mixed with the red and the blue in Cottonmouth's club - but goddamn if it isn't then someone paid an obsessive amount of detail to framing every shot and background because these colors are lining up with bizarre consistency.

edited 20th Aug '17 9:33:00 AM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#161: Aug 20th 2017 at 9:25:42 AM

I agree, let Danny chill and let him be the guy who makes other people smile. We don't need another Batman wannabe, that is Daredevil's role anyway.

About Destroying New York: That's what the first conversation between Gao and Alexandra is about. Gao wants to wait so that they can get to the stuff quietly, but Alexandra wants to do it as fast as possible because she doesn't know how much time she has.

edited 20th Aug '17 9:27:08 AM by Swanpride

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#162: Aug 20th 2017 at 9:29:15 AM

I don't think Colleen should've been the fourth member instead of Danny (now, the fifth member on the other hand), but I do think that her of all characters getting a "learn to deal with being a sidekick" plot with Claire was really stupid.

I hope by the time Defenders Season 2 happens, we've got stuff like Daughters of the Dragon and maybe Trish becoming Hellcat, so there's less a sense of "these are the side characters, let's shunt them over into the closet."

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#163: Aug 20th 2017 at 9:34:10 AM

[up] Trish was really underused in this one...they didn't even allow her to try defending herself when she and Jessica got attacked. I mean, I would be okay with her failing, she isn't on the same level as a hand soldier (yet) but I was bothered by her not even trying to use her training.

Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#164: Aug 20th 2017 at 10:31:01 AM

I will say, I am hoping Daredevil season 3 doesn't do a "Matt doesn't tell Foggy and Karen that he's alive in order to protect them or some bullshit " to get some drama out of his being alive.

Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#165: Aug 20th 2017 at 10:43:50 AM

Yeah I was disappointed that Trish didn't do more here either. As someone who's firmly on the "she should become Hellcat eventually" train, I'd have like to see some hint of that here. Like at least let her TRY and fight, even if she ultimately lost.

warrior93 warrior93 from North Carolina Since: Feb, 2011
warrior93
#166: Aug 20th 2017 at 12:12:34 PM

So was all of this beneath S.H.I.E.L.D's interest?

Place your past in a book burn the pages let them cook.
Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#167: Aug 20th 2017 at 12:21:02 PM

Honestly the Netflix shows feel like they're off in their own little world (even more so than the rest of Marvel TV). Like they cannot even use the name "Avengers" or any of the character names directly. They're always trying to be "cute and clever" with it. Which is probably a hit or miss kind of deal.

Honestly the only other character that kind of stood out as "well he should probably be here" is Spider-Man. The others are easy enough to explain away (especially post-CW). But his whole thing is protecting NYC.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#168: Aug 20th 2017 at 12:24:29 PM

Best not to think about it, though I kind of wish they'd made it clear that no one knew the full extent of the danger until the absolute last possible moment, when it was too late for anyone else to step in.

...Homeland being involved does sort of explain why no one else is getting involved, though. They take their jurisdiction pretty seriously.

Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#169: Aug 20th 2017 at 12:25:49 PM

Speaking of the Avengers, I'm assuming this whole situation was below Tony's pay grade?

He's obviously still letting Ross go straight to voicemail.

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#170: Aug 20th 2017 at 12:29:26 PM

As seen in Homecoming: it's wedding season, c'mon.

Or not, I think it's late winter or early winter or late fall in The Defenders. Did they actually give the date somewhere? Probably did, right?

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#171: Aug 20th 2017 at 12:40:16 PM

I am not quite sure when exactly Defenders is set in 2016 (it has to be 2016 because Jessica Jones was definitely set in Spring 2015 and Daredevil 2 and Luke Cage were set in autumn/winter, so Iron Fist was set in early 2016 and we are supposedly only a few months away from those events), but I guess we are around the time when shield is really distracted by looking for Daisy and the whole Anti-Inhumans movement.

[up] Nope...they were deliberately very vague. I am still looking for a date, though I am guessing autumn. It is cold but the foliage is still mostly at the trees.

edited 20th Aug '17 12:43:10 PM by Swanpride

Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#172: Aug 20th 2017 at 12:42:56 PM

I honestly think that it depends on the scale of the threat, where it is, and how it develops. Like something that kind of comes out of nowhere and is over relatively quickly makes it easier to justify the whole "why others don't get involved." Something that's really big and that they know is coming in advance, less so.

Also my standard is "does it make sense for them to be there in-context or not." Like most of the time it doesn't bother me that they don't crossover. But sometimes, it does just because of context. Like Nick Fury and SHIELD's totally absence from IM 3 doesn't really fit with how they acted in the other two films. And Hawkeye's complete absence from TWS doesn't really fit the situation. Same with Fury being just gone in CW (which doesn't line up with the end of AOU either).

I can accept them not being there, but not without explanation. They could have taken like a few lines of dialogue to quickly explain WHY they weren't around, not that hard. It feels lazy to not do that.

It's one of my pet peeves with writing in-general, characters just disappear and there's zero attempt to explain why or where they went.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#173: Aug 20th 2017 at 12:45:37 PM

[up] Hawkeye not being around in WS doesn't bother me that much (I just assumed that he was either on assignment somewhere else or on leave after the mind whammy Loki put on him) nor Fury not being in Civil War (the guy is constantly somewhere to do some shit and his absence is kind of required for the plot). But I am with you with Ironman 3, what is going down there is simply too big for everyone else to just lean back and ignore it.

Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#174: Aug 20th 2017 at 12:54:05 PM

See then just take 20 seconds to explain it. Why is Black Widow's partner/best friend, who's also an Avenger, who showed ZERO signs of any lingering side-effects from Loki's mind control before, and who reports directly to Nick Fury, not present at all in a plot that centers around SHIELD? And where the team includes Black Widow, Fury, Captain America (another Avengers teammate), and Maria Hill. Again, just explain why he isn't there, I don't think that I'm asking for too much there.

And Fury not being in CW is obvious. The conflict cannot happen if he is there, because he wouldn't let it happen. So the Russo's had to get rid of him, and didn't bother to explain why he left (as much as I like them, that's one of my peeves with their writing in-general actually). Again just a quick explanation, not that hard.

edited 20th Aug '17 12:55:18 PM by Punisher286

Unsung it's a living from a tenement of clay Since: Jun, 2016
it's a living
#175: Aug 20th 2017 at 12:58:07 PM

I'm okay with Hawkeye not being in Winter Soldier— it's a big planet, he travels a lot for work, he apparently has a family— though I would have liked to have heard where he was and what went down with him when the Hydra coup happened. Because I bet there's a story there.


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