The New New Touhou Character Alternate Interpretation Compendium

I suppose I had a fair bit to cover, sorry about that. Thanks for reading, though! She's a rambling sort of lady and I guess I might have picked up a bit of that here.

edited 21st Apr '15 1:45:14 AM by Cynicmuffin

Suwako runs a bit of an extortion scheme. In many ways, gods aren't so different from gangsters.

Indeed. The Moriya mafia are running a protection racket.

I feel like the difference is that Kanako would try to justify it (as divine right if nothing else), whereas Suwako will cheerfully admit to being horrible.

That's just me, though.

Impressive! Good use of the earth and sky imagery to characterize the goddesses, and I like the observations about the self-defeating nature of technological "miracles," since it quietly suggests a reason Suwako continues to hang out with Kanako - she sees a bit of herself in her. So Kanako is ultimately starting the self-destructive cycle Suwako has seen before (like a snake eating her own tail), but Suwako just plays along rather than argue because she's become a bit fatalistic about the whole situation.

She also sounds pretty old in this conversation, given the heavy subject matter. More Kreia than Nanny Ogg, I suppose, but there's a hint of that playfulness at the end.

I'm not admitting to having any sort of authority to allow or prevent you from saying something, I'm just saying that my only concern regarding mini-fics is that at some point during the last thread there seemed to be an erroneous impression that they were mandatory.

Or governments throughout most of history, for that matter. A god promises you benefits and protection if you follow her and bloody retribution if you don't; a warlord with a gold hoop on his head says much the same. A god who wants to expand his reach and muscle in on rivals' territory needs a religious infrastructure, a hierarchy of subordinate priests, and all the logistical support that requires; kings build their nations in much the same way. But at some point the king/god's control becomes too diffused, or too many blessings make his worshipers/subjects too powerful, and it turns out the whole system can get along fine without the figurehead.

Thank you! Glad you approve. And yeah, to be honest, both of my all-time favourite character pieces (one from here, one not) are not in fic format, so I never assumed it was a necessity. I just do better in story format, I suppose.

Suwako's goal is, I suppose, just to look after Kanako in a 'keep her from hurting herself' sort of way. And have fun along the way, obviously. It's not as though she lost hope or anything, but she can probably only muster so much urgency or general caring. If anything she thinks it's funny, and approaches it with a general sense of 'good riddance, I guess?'

To her, though - and I will admit to lifting this from someone else's interpretation, like much of my thoughts on Suwako - Kanako is basically still too young to understand a lot of things. With luck, of course, she'll never have to learn.

She probably can't help but be amused by the whole nuclear fusion thing, though. Essentially "oh, here we go again". Or possibly "so this is what buries us... it really is neat, though." Again, gods of iron; it's all inherently self-destructive, but what else can they possibly do?

Edit: I don't claim to strike that particular balance myself, on the Nanny Ogg/Kreia thing. I was referring specificlaly to a friend's portrayal of her (while mine is inspired by it, I would not claim to match that). Also yeah, subject matter is what it is.

edited 21st Apr '15 3:16:10 PM by Cynicmuffin

Oh yeah, should probably mention the Suwakoto! doujin. Pretty out-of-character, but eh, it's cute.

Since things have wound down, now would be a time to share any last-minute froggy thoughts before we move on to Seiga.

Ribbit.

Say, there's something I'd be interested in sharing here, but it's not for characters currently being discussed; would the main Touhou thread be an acceptable place to post it instead? Just wondering.

As for Seija, here's some music for her and I guess Sukuna: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYb9sRLUDyM

Edit: Wait, you said Seiga. Okay, I'm just monumentally stupid.

edited 24th Apr '15 3:39:31 AM by Cynicmuffin

I think it depends. If it's on a character already discussed, go right ahead. We've had "late talkers" before.

Either way, main thread is good too.

I say, like I know anything.

Komachi, yes. Eiki, no. It covers both, so I guess I better hit the main thread, hm?

If it's for a character we haven't discussed yet, I'd ask that you be patient. If it's a character we already have, that raises the question of whether we need to schedule a review session in the near future.

Pfft, I have to double check each time I write either of their names to make sure I used the right letter for the right person.

So, good frog talk. Next up will be Nitori, followed by Meiling, and then we need to decide whether to have a review period, abandon the random character selection, or what. Until then, a lady with a stick in her hair:

Seiga Kaku

Stage: Accelerating Luxury ~ A Hole in the Hall of Dreams' Great Mausoleum
The divine spirits, pulled into fine strings toward the cavern's depth...
The scenery was unlike anything of this world.
BGM:"Desire Drive
Theme: "Old Yuanxian"

Spellcard Motif: Evil Taoist Necro-Sorcery
Spellcards: TD, ISC
Evil Sign "Yang Xiaogui," Evil Sign "Guhun Yegui," Demonify "Zouhuo Rumo," Necromancy "Corpse Tongji," Spirit Link "Tongling Yoshika," Path Sign "Dao Fetal Movement," Path Sign "TAO Fetal Movement ~Dao~", Demonify "Excessive Zouhuo Rumo," Hermit Arts "Wall Runner," Hermit Arts "Wall-Phasing Wormhole"

Write-up:
Perhaps the wickedest of Touhou's hermits, Seiga Kaku followed her father's example and abandoned her family so she could master the ways of the Tao and attain immortality. When impressing folks in China with her hermit tricks grew boring, Seiga moved to Japan right in the midst of great religious and political turmoil and managed to become a close advisor to Toyosatomimi no Miko. It was Seiga who converted the crown prince and her confidants to Taoism, and Seiga who advised spreading Buddhism as a way to placate the great unwashed masses.

When the plan to set up Miko as an immortal god-empress failed, Seiga eventually wound up in Gensokyo and has generally made a nuisance of herself ever since. Whether it's animating corpses with her unholy magicks, hanging around people she finds interesting, ruining Christmas, or not having the courtesy to die when Hell's hitman comes calling, it isn't hard to cast Seiga as a story's villain

Relations

• Toyosatomimi no Miko (former student)
• Mononobe no Futo, Soga no Tojiko (former associates)
• Yoshika Miyako (cute underling)

See also the previous compendium.

edited 25th Apr '15 11:05:11 AM by Tacitus

Seiga is daddy's little villain huh? Also, Seiga's name vaguely resembles SEGA.

For the record, I think this should be Necromancy "Corpse Tongji". I changed it on the master spellcard list that affects what shows up on the character pages, but I guess I forgot about the page you referenced.

I put it in the general thread. Apologies for cluttering things here with the daft question.

Seiga is a wicked hermit who does things pretty much for her own amusement. Ditches her family to gain eternal life as a lich, manipulated a religious war for funsies, stole Christmas and sold it back at a high price.

You know, standard hermit things.

I remember someone once comparing Seiga to fanon Yukari, being the type who acts all mysterious and exotic, but also trolls everyone for no real reason outside amusement. Only, well, Seiga doesn't have fanon Yukari's abusable power levels nor her redeeming qualities.

Also, she raises jiang shi who she has enslaved to her whims, without respect to their burial or state. Basically, she is grave robbing for zombie minions. And the way she dotes over Yoshika is...suspicious.

She tends to float around and bother "interesting" people, but according to Akyuu, she gets bored easily (more so if you ignore her).

Seiga's name looks like Seija, another openly villainous character. Huh.

edited 24th Apr '15 9:52:47 PM by Otherarrow

While Seiga's constantly described of evil, she's not really that villainous. She's not puppy-kicking, baby-eating kind of evil like Dio Brando. She just have no consideration for anyone other than herself. Or maybe it's because she just have no ambition other than "have fun" for now. When she actually wants to cause an incident, who knows what kind of stuff she will do.

I've always stood by a Discworld quote as a means to describe her MO: To paraphrase, evil starts when you think of people as things.

edited 25th Apr '15 8:30:46 AM by Cynicmuffin

Seiga does think of people as things.....I concede that Discworld is right...........

I wouldn't say that; it sounds like her daddy was just a deadbeat, not someone who got his jollies showing off his Taoist superpowers before growing bored and meddling in a neighboring country's civil war as part of a ploy to put an undying autocrat on the throne.

This is what I get for cut-and-pasting a three-year-old profile without checking the fine print.

I have to say, I like it better when ZUN subverts fan interpretations of characters by introducing new characters who play them straight, as opposed to rewriting old characters to defy our expectations about them. Or maybe I should save the comment for the Nitori conversation?

Let's be charitable and assume that Seiga dotes on Yoshika as a monument to her own mastery over life and death, and not as a smoking hot stack of cold, dead flesh.

Good points. Oh, she's a wicked old hermit, but what all can we say about Seiga that doesn't apply to someone else? She steals stuff, so does Marisa. She defies the natural order of life and death, so do a grab-bag of other hermits or immortals. She stalks you if you're interesting, but I suppose that's better than Yukari outright abducting you. She facilitated a civil war, but she wasn't one of the people originally fighting it.

For the most part, Seiga just does what she wants, and luckily for us she isn't that interested in material gain (beyond that whole Christmas thing). I'm actually having some trouble working out her motivation - the whole "look what I can do!" showing off in China would suggest she likes attention, but then she worked behind the scenes in Japan. Maybe she wants attention from the right people?

At any rate, she doesn't seem like someone who would start an Incident, but someone who would help someone else start an Incident, and guide them through every step in the process.

I'm sure she wants attention, but only from interesting people. She's not a clown: she's not here to perform tricks and entertain the peasants. Having the respected leader of a whole nation wrapped around your little finger is certainly something though. This of course ties into Akyuu's "ignore her and she'll go away" advice. The thing about moving to Japan is just that hermits are common enough in China to not be exceptionally influential, as individuals.

If I had to get all analytic about her character, I'd say she wants to be loved, to make up for the father who abandoned her. She wants to be the someone special in someone else's life. However, wanting to be loved and being able to love someone else are entirely different things, so she comes off as a user of people. Or, to paraphrase a giselbon comic, Seiga's love is a terrifying thing.

edited 25th Apr '15 2:59:25 PM by Clarste

Seiga Kaku:

A hermit who specializes in black magicks such as necromancy. Miko's teacher of all things Tao. Nice, but at times shady.

Seiga is the type of person who enjoys amusing things and interesting people. She will actively pursue interests that amuses her. So once she loses interest, she'll very quickly move on to the next big thing. So...she may have some extreme case of Fleeting Passionate Hobbies. She's someone who does what she wants. You have something planned? Too bad, once she locks eyes with you and she thinks you have something going on, it's Seiga Time! ...Which is why ignoring her is the best course of action.

...But the other way around works as well. If she thinks you're a hot topic, she'll shower you with her undivided attention. But what if you're not, yet you'd want to talk to her? She'll ignore you. No, ignorance is too safe a fate. She'll disregard you, not give you her time of day. Registration on her radar is icily impossible. ALSO, if she takes an interest and you egg her on, she may want you to get involved in something that amuses her, and if you don't, well she'll just pester you in her own subtly icy way until you cave in...

She's an ominous individual, yet her actions are no different from some others. Longevity is a crime shared by all hermits, for example. However, it just can't be helped that people notice a special something about her. Something that feels more unnatural than usual. She may be talking nice and saying some sweet things, but you can't help but sense a level of unease with her every word. I wonder if she cast a hex that makes others feel that way around her. For amusement, of course.

Reading a doujin made me wonder if she finds the greatest joy in breaking her own bonds with others. I mean, she didn't want to be bounded to her family for eternity, so she faked her death. She moves at her own beat, in her own time. Shackles like friendship, love, and affection? She perhaps fears that if she allows herself to be overrun with such emotions, she'll lose sight of her own existence. So before that happens, she'll make a clean break from whatever is the main source of those binding emotions and not look back. Yes. This could even include leaving Yoshika behind and finding another ultimate undead bodyguard...

Perhaps that is what makes her more evil than any other; her willingness to destroy her own status quo and start afresh...

...I...I did not think this interpretation would get so dark, depressing, and confusing. I blame Haruno Yuknoshita.

Sounds like a good analysis. Also, which of the many Taoist-centered giselebon works were you referencing?

Except we don't see her settling down and picking up, say origami. Her "hobbies" are other people. To make sense of this, we can use Clarste's take and deduce that simply amusing herself isn't enough, Seiga wants someone else to be impressed with her awesomeness. Alternatively/additionally, maybe Seiga doesn't feel there's any way of improving herself, and so is content with finding an interesting yokel she can still feel superior to.

Hmm, I don't know. If she was planning on turning on the Crown Prince at some point, then helping her attain ultimate power and immortality through Taoism would seem counter-productive. I mean, it's still possible, maybe Seiga really wants a worthy opponent and feels a need to make her own.

You also raise a good point about her family - she totally ditched them like a bunch of filthy peasants. So do we know anything about the Kaku family, that we may be able to judge what level of prestige Seiga is dismissive towards?

According to the profile, Seiga could do more or less what she wanted there, except pursuing Taoism. Does suggest a certain level of affluence.

Also, it says "she was able to marry into", makes it sound like an accomplishment. Might just be the translation though.

edited 26th Apr '15 10:53:05 PM by joergenjetsam

Actuakly, wasn't Seiga based off a Chinese historical character or something? What was her original inspiration like?