The New New Touhou Character Alternate Interpretation Compendium

Kanako is indirectly responsible for the events of SA, TD and UFO respectively although it is actually more that she might have anticipated and even planned those scenarios.

Sanae is a science otaku who became that way to please her mistress? I always thought she genuinely liked science and it became her interest.

Nah, that's just an alternate interpretation I came up with off the cuff. We don't know like... anything about Sanae before she came to Gensokyo, so she's got a bit of a multiple choice past.

Also, Kanako's connection to TD is pretty minor, but still worth noting. That is, if we take one of the UFO endings to be canonical, Kanako had a part in selecting Myouren Temple's location. Which means she had a hand in making sure it was on top of Miko's mausoleum (perhaps influenced by Nazrin, perhaps by influencing Nazrin).

I imagine her now being all "Shiiit... I've better do something about her before she starts wrecking my operation. Hmm, I know, I'll just direct the mouse over to the highly suspicious graveyard over there."

edited 6th Nov '14 7:01:07 AM by joergenjetsam

Or, in true Xanatos Fashion, she clearly knew that Miko would be waking up soon, and that she would be a potent religious opponent, so she sat Byakuren down on top of Miko's Mausoleum (Or guided Nazrin to it or something), so that the two would start off with immediate bad blood and give Kanako a stronger initial position!

All it takes is a touch of precognition and/or retconning.

I would think Kanako is a terrorist not because of her involvement in the Incidents but because her fallback method of gathering faith is to threaten people with the Mishaguji. Worship me... or else. Although maybe that's more like a protection racket?

How would you even define a terrorist? It's basically a buzzword now, with no two places using it to mean the same thing.

I figure Sanae's interest in science is genuine, but not necessarily that deep - maybe she just reads pop science sites/magazines and stuff like that.

edited 6th Nov '14 2:01:03 PM by Prime32

Terrorism: countries argue over it because they don't want to be caught supporting terrorists rather than freedom fighters, and we get confused when people use terrorist tactics like car bombings or suicide vests in non-terrorist ways. But the basic principle is that you're attempting to alter someone's policy by hurting a third group because you can't properly influence the first group - terrorism is fundamentally a dialogue done by the weak against the strong.

With "classic" terrorism, you could get a situation like the Kappa Liberation Front bombing tengu marketplaces, or kidnapping random bird folk to extract their shirikodama on TV, so that the oni will stop occupying Genbu Ravine. The kappa aren't strong enough to fight the oni directly, but by attacking a civilian target, either the oni will pull out so their tengu vassals stop dying, or the tengu will put pressure on the oni to leave. The point is, the tengu aren't the ones setting or executing policy, but they're the ones suffering for it - bombing or attacking those oni occupation forces wouldn't be terrorism, but asymmetric warfare.

With state terrorism, you would see something like Shinki massacring, disappearing, or engineering a famine affecting the people of Vina, both as a response to their opposition and also to make sure nobody in Pandaemonium gets any bright ideas. You usually see this sort of thing in states where a small faction has to impose its will on a large population, and decides that making them too scared to fight back is the best way of doing so.

Applying this to Kanako, I'm gonna say she's not a terrorist. She has the whole "worship me and you'll get goodies, don't worship me at your own peril" thing going on, but like Clarste said that's more of a protection racket - you might as well say God is a terrorist for threatening nonbelievers with Hell. It's more targeted than terror, you backed the wrong divine horse, and you are going to suffer for it. And really, Kanako can't afford to properly terrorize people, Gensokyo has too small a population, and they have too many other options (save us, Aki Sisters!).

Now, as for whether youkai in general are terrorists...

edited 6th Nov '14 8:44:34 PM by Tacitus

So something that actually popped up last time, but I didn't really seize upon, was some speculation from Akyuu that Kanako used to be a human, or group of humans. I think we briefly discussed Kanako perhaps being an embodiment of the ancient Japanese mafia, but I think the single human theory explains so very much about her.

Humanity Ascendant

If you think about it, Kanako pretty much embodies the human race when it's presented in most fantasy settings. She is expansive, ambitious, even aggressive when it comes to securing resources. She's able to upset an old established order and create something that outlasts it by thousands of years. She's technologically-adept, enough so that the marvels she's introducing threaten to break the "fantasy" nature of the setting (assuming we ignore Rika and Rikako for a moment, and to a lesser extent the kappa).

Even though Kanako is a goddess, she looks down upon tradition, and is more concerned with doing what works or benefits her rather than what has always been done. Above all else, she is supremely pragmatic and adaptable. She'll use magic to beat technology, technology to get more attention than magic, and is always looking for a beneficial alliance, even if it's with her former opponent or as shallow as a quid-pro-quo with local youkai.

All these "human" qualities ironically make her an odd fit for the Human Village, which feels almost dwarf-like in comparison. And they may explain Kanako's use of theatrics - she's not a "natural" goddess, after all, but she does have firsthand experience how humans expect a goddess to present herself. Or what would make them more likely to kneel before her.

One avenue of further inquiry would be the speculate what path led proto-Kanako to ascend to godhood, but I'll leave that for later.

Ugh, triple post. The fact that this is a triple post suggests that the Kanako conversation ran its course a few days ago, so unless it picks up again we will probably be moving on sometime tomorrow evening.

In the meantime... I think at least a third of Kanako pictures are of her doing that crouch from MoF. Another third are bikini pics. You should expect more of the former than the latter in this picdump.


On the right
Kinda clever
Kinda flirty
Why are you dissolving, lady?
Soaking her feets
Big rope
Is she sitting in a cornucopia basket?
If this weren't Y-7 it would totally be a cigarette
And now for a style shift
When she's pale like that she looks like Remilia
How old was she when she conquered the Moriya Kingdom again?
Rainy day
Cold day
Stormy day
Cosmic clash
Smug Snake, Grumbling Frog
Snack break
I'm getting distracted trying to figure out what Swackers is reading
Definitely up to something
I think even Kanako can have doubts sometimes
An uncommon emotion to portray
Well that was unexpected
YYY
Goddesses, explosions
Arrer girl
Don't wake the snake
Whenever I see someone riding a giant serpentine creature, I hear this music
Divine purple static
Alright, let's start identifying the nuances of her stock pose
Dominant but indulgent
Confident but analyzing
Somewhat surprised but unimpressed
Almost mocking
Intimidating, focused
Legit angry but composed
Still in control but going all-out
Losing control
Victorious without fully gloating
She looks younger in this one for whatever reason
Multitasking by sunlight
Multitasking by starlight
A refined lady and her pet snake
With a sword, and why not?
What is this she don't even
Good AU fodder
Still one of the best works of fanart
The Moriya Shrine
Portrait
Flowing goddesses
An interesting What If? scenario. She'd probably back Alexander to start...
Putting the "great" in Great Suwa War
Rods from gods
A tasteful nude, I hope
It's not necessarily a fancier or less fancy outfit, but something about it seems to suit her better
Snaked-eyed Kanako is pretty cute
One disadvantage of wearing a mirror all the time
Side effects of becoming a snake goddess include...
This should be good
Goddesses should not be cheerleaders, especially when drunk
She looks confused, yet I doubt this is the first time it's happened
We are not amused

edited 9th Nov '14 8:51:01 PM by Tacitus

I've been meaning to enter the discussion and do a big intro post...but I haven't really felt up to it.

Sorry. I know I haven't been really contributing to this thread any more. ._.

Behold Kanako's majesty, and believe in her!

Rise Up Once More
Suwa's Legendary Battlefield
Ominous Battlefield
Faith in the Depths
Ruinous Battlefield
Being of Joy
Onbashira's Realm
Venerable Rush
Divine Duel by the Grave
Cafe by the Grave
Suwa's End
Cemetery of Solace

Mmm-mmm that Tutti Sound. They do bombastic, and they do it well.

If you have words to say, share them; if you don't, you don't have to force yourself to speak. You can feel bad about how much you're participating if you want to.

Now, after our current discussion will be Genjii, Elly, and it looks like ooh, Fujiwara no Mokou! But first, keep your windows closed and don't invite any strangers into your home...

Remilia Scarlet

Stage: Rain of Blood Over Elysium
BGM:"The Young Descendent of Tepes"
Theme: "Setpette for a Dead Princess"

Spellcard Motif: Cower, brief mortals, before my magnificent vampiric power!
Notable spellcards: EoSD, GoM, IaMP, IN, SWR, StB, 'Soku, ISC
"Red Magic," Hell Sign "Mountain of a Thousand Needles," Heaven's Punishment "Star of David," "Scarlet Gensokyo," Scarlet Sign "Red the Nightless Castle," Certain Kill "Heart Break," Divine Spear "Spear the Gungnir," Night Lord "Dracula Cradle," Night Sign "Bad Lady Scramble," Second Card "My Heartbreak," God Devil "Remilia Stoker," "Scarlet Destiny," Destiny "Miserable Fate," "Millennium Vampire," Devil "Remilia Stretch," "Fitful Nightmare," "Duck, Duck, Bat"

Write-up:
Contemporary Touhou's first final boss, and one of the most enduringly popular characters in the series. Remilia Scarlet is a Western vampire who relocated to Gensokyo, bringing the Scarlet Devil Mansion with her. She caused the Scarlet Mist Incident, was defeated, and has subsequently stuck around, taking part in later Incidents as her whims dictate. She may not be considered one of Gensokyo's movers and shakers since she can't compare to the Moriya Shrine or other religious types when it comes to long-term ambitions, but the Scarlet Devil is not one to be overlooked.

Remilia's got the usual vampire strengths and weaknesses, though she has evidently picked up an allergy to roasted soybeans and doesn't mind crosses. She seems to be a powerful spellcaster, with a simply amazing control over blood magic. Remilia's special ability is to control fate, but even in-universe there's debate over exactly what that means. This vampire's grip on the chains of destiny haven't kept her from occasionally being humbled, her charisma broken, but somehow that just makes the fandom love her even more.

Relations

• Flandre Scarlet (little sister)
• Sakuya Izayoi (head maid)
• Patchouli Knowledge (roommate}
• Hong Meiling (gatekeeper)
• Reimu Hakurei (perhaps her favorite human)
• Tupai (su chupacabra mascota, no una scandentia)
• Fairy Maids (generally useless)
• Hobgoblins (certainly no zashiki-warashi)

Interpretations:

"The Cunning Vampire"
by Antimatter 625

"Just as Planned"
by Antimatter 625

See also the first two compendiums.

edited 23rd Nov '14 2:25:07 PM by Tacitus

Remilia (Remi to others) is a royal brat to anything but for the title. She acts high, but is still a kid. But maybe she wanted to be like that? A princess to be treated with care. She is immortal due of refusing to grow up.

She finds animal blood as a cheap substitute for human blood. And don't try giving her tomatoes; she is better than that.

Oh boy, we're up to the big ones. I'll start by confessing Remilia is one of my most liked characters. Like in alot of characters I like she a duality about her - on one hand she is the dreadful mistress of the the Scarlet Devil Mansion, a powerful vampire who has fate laid open before her; on the other hand she is a vain little brat who wannts everything to go her way and isn't reluctant to pull others into her selfish whims.

We're getting close to headcanon territory, but my theory is that back in the outside world, when witch and vampire hunts were still common, Remilia had to fight and hide a lot in order to survive. She took her "big sister" role to protect Flandere and let feel at least somewhat safe. She had to play the adult part, always being the wise and calm one, the one to take care of everything for her sister. Because of this, Remilia never really got to be a child. So when they came to Gensoukyo and realized they don't need to fear being hunted, that Gensoukyo is a place where monsters like her often participate in silly shenanigans, she could finally relax and ditch that "scary vampire" persona.

I like that, except that Remi is clearly enjoying it too much by now to ditch it.

Also Tacitus, you forgot the fairy maids and the hobgoblins. Some of the maids are recurring even.

edited 11th Nov '14 5:41:56 AM by Prime32

you mean like the hobgoblins in that canon (I forgot the name) manga?

Remilia is the eternal ten year old girl who just has a big imagination and is somewhat bratty. I wonder how Remilia would react to that vampire from the fifth game?

Who, Kurumi? Or were you speculating that one of the Makai folk was a vampire?

I think Remi's character is the result of her personality combined with her circumstances. She is by her nature an arrogant, selfish, spoiled little girl. She's also the lady of a mansion with a host of minions, some of them quite powerful, and as far as we know she's been looking after herself and her little sister for all their lives. She can't be too much a child because she has to be enough of an adult to take charge of her life, but that leaves plenty of childishness left around the edges, so to speak.

An interesting take on her. It does clash with the canonical "she can live forever because she never grows up" explanation, but you raise a good point here - it's quite hard to imagine Remilia getting up Gensokyo-style antics in the outside world. Especially an outside world that has become increasingly hostile to supernatural creatures, to say nothing of vampire hunters in particular.

It's quite likely she's spent the past five centuries fleeing the Enlightenment, taking refuge in the dark places of the world but still having to keep a low profile, always wary of threats to her and her sister. And it's therefore likely that Gensokyo is the first place Remilia has been able to relax.

I recognize my failing and will be sure to correct it.

Remilia Scarlet:

A vampire and the(physically) young headmistress of the Scarlet Devil Mansion. Can be bratty at times.

Remilia's a vampire who has lived for centuries. But she's eternally a kid. So if she gets moody, watch out. She may say some bombastic things like destroying Gensokyo if she's not entertained. Good thing she's easily amused...?

Also, since she's eternally a kid, that explains why she can't seem to overcome her weaknesses. ...Then again, she lived for centuries, so these things should be beneath her. ...Mental block?

Her theme exudes class. A vintage kind of class. Being a refined lady is what she wants to show the world. Hiding her immature side, of course.

I wonder why she hires fairy maids. I mean, they are practically useless, and they cause Sakuya more grief than relief. Maybe that's part of her brand of fun?

edited 17th Nov '14 6:30:26 PM by Diamite

I think I heard somewhere that the fairy maids are basically there to make the place look busier than it actually is. I mean, a vampire lord needs servants, right?

The hobgoblins seem more competent, but Remi seems to have them working in the back rooms, out of sight. You know, like at Hogwarts.

Now there's a thought. If someone introduced Remi to Rowling, do you think the girl would declare it the stupidest thing she'd ever read? Or go full fangirl and start wearing a scarf and trying to learn (more) magic from Patchy?

Heh, I do like the idea that Remi keeps other help just to give Sakuya something to fuss over besides her. It might be a lulz sort of thing... or, well, if we go with the idea that Sakuya is a former vampire hunter, maybe Remi thinks it best that Sakuya has something to fully occupy her time. Just as a precaution.

I think it's more likely that Remilia just expects a fully-staffed mansion, even if said staff is incompetent. Though this raises the question - why fairies? Remi has a fairly diverse group of named servants, but it's a small group - why hasn't she picked up more during her travels?

My guess would be that it's a matter of trust, and safety. Remilia's personality probably prioritizes minions over friends, so she has a small, tight inner circle and a bunch of flunkies she never bothers to learn the names of. And she tries not to attract attention when she relocates the mansion somewhere by bringing a throng of foreigners with her, just a few eccentric immigrants. She then hires some local help to work at the mansion to seem less out-of-place, and to also gain some links with the community that might warn her if, say, a bunch of fellows with stakes and garlic are coming to town.

My pet theory is that Remi got Patchy to dabble in necromancy at one point and give the "vampire lair full of skeletons" a try, but found it too untidy. Plus, where do you even get all those bones? It certainly doesn't make the locals inclined to put up with you.

They aren't completely useless. You do see them work in the manga. Remilia also seems to worry about fairy maid stress levels.

Expanding on my "image to the world" point, Remilia loves the fine arts. Back in the day, she was an opera fan. Yeah, you know it.

Only for her to complain to her buds about how people can tolerate going to a theater to listen to some incoherent wailing. It's soooo boring to her.

edited 17th Nov '14 6:30:41 PM by Diamite

Heh, immortal body, personality of a pre-teen, tastes of a crotchety grandma. Maybe that's why she decided to move to Gensokyo? She just couldn't stand how wild and nonsensical the outside world had gotten?

...You know, I could really believe the Scarlet Devil Mansion has its own theater, and Remi tries to put on productions. With herself always in the leading role, of course.

Dammit, I'm having Karazhan flashbacks and I never even went there.

Really? Huh. Natural selection? The ones who were the worst at the chores have had to respawn so many times they stopped showing up?

I can definitely see Remilia giving her fairies names, even - especially - if they try to insist they already have ones. Probably thinks of them something like pets.

I do recall that the SDM is located on an island, if I'm not mistaken. An isle that belonged to the fairies(as much as anything can belong to them, honestly). My thought is that when she and her group showed up, between their abilities and their fancy mansion that's bigger on the outside than the inside, the collective thought that the fairies had was essentially "Cool!", "Wow!", and other such things. So, when Remilia offered to them the job of serving her, they accepted without hesitation because A. They get to live in the big super cool house, which was awesome, B. They were going to work for a really strong person, who had strong people with her already, which was also awesome, and C. They already live on the island, so why not? For them, there was just no reason to say no to her, really.

Continuing on that thought, it was that sort of line of thinking("following the strong" and "why not?") that led to the Vampire Incident in the first place, because she managed to sway many of the youkai, who were at a sort of low point at the time, to follow her as well, and she was able to form an army that could easily cause a serious mess in the balance of power and all that jazz.

What do you guys think?