There will come a time when Miko will be the hero humanity needs, but not the one it deserves.
But if that time never comes, then ascension, say hello to a new friend.
Maybe I'm wrong, but she doesn't actively go out of her way to aid humans at every corner. Only when her services are asked for. While she is proud and boastful, she's pretty chill with her pride. And why wouldn't she be? She's awesome and she knows it.
Actually, Akyuu does say that if you call for her when in trouble, she will show up to save you.
But yeah. She is pretty chill in her ego also. Awesome ego indeed.
edited 21st Aug '14 1:32:15 PM by Otherarrow
Don't PM me. We don't like being PMed.Eh, honestly I think Miko is a pretty chill ruler. Even if she gets to be the rules, I think she will be a Reasonable Authority Figure rather than an Evil Overlord. Barring that one time when she manipulated a war, I mean.
Wait, we're still talking about Miko? I kind of assumed the burst of discussion was from moving on. I'm not sure there's really that much to say about her.
I mean, it's really just about Desire, ie: greed. That was the theme of her debut game and it's the theme of her character. She wants everything and will settle for nothing less. On the other hand, greed is a sort of love, in that she doesn't want anything bad to happen to any of her stuff, ie: everything.
It's a selfish love. The love that treats people as just things to be collected.
Shrug. Good point on the desire thing though.
Don't PM me. We don't like being PMed.This is probably getting too far off topic, but all love is inherently selfish. It just happens to be the case that most people are genetically programmed to enjoy seeing other people happy. It's kind of, um, logically impossible to act outside of your own desires. If you want to sacrifice yourself for the sake of a stranger then you friggin want to sacrifice yourself. It satisfies a desire you have deep down inside yourself. Nothing wrong with that, as long as we can all admit it instead of demonizing our own desires. I happen to strongly agree with Miko on this point.
That said, I don't think Miko's love is the controlling sort anyway. She objects very strongly to the idea of humanity living in a zoo, even when it no longer has anything to do with her. She also lets the village continue to exist without a leader (er... Akyuu?) when she believes it doesn't need one. I'd say she's very much a "rule of law" kind of person who doesn't actually care about ruling itself, but wants to be in a position where she can see judge the effectiveness of those laws.
Which I guess kind of means that she is a control freak, but not in a self-serving "divert all resources to me" way because frankly she doesn't even see herself as part of the system. Her actions will have no tangible benefit or detriment to her personally one way or another. She has no vested interest in anything, she just doesn't want to see society break down in front of her. She's like... a person sitting behind you while you play a game, constantly giving you advice but not actually trying to take the controller from your hands. A back-seat driver. She wants you to win, not her, but that doesn't mean she isn't incredibly annoying. She's already won, of course.
edited 22nd Aug '14 6:10:13 AM by Clarste
I dunno, she seems like the kinda person who, yes, wants you to win...but when you do, she makes it loud and clear that you couldn't have done it without her help.
Shrug. She's still pretty shady. I don't think she is as disconnected as she claims to be, but merely steps back because it suits her. What way to get cuddos than to make the offer, then back down humbly when it's not needed (while still keeping it on the table of course)? Again, it goes back to her trying to make herself look trustworthy.
She doesn't want society to break down in front of her, yes, but at the same time she thinks that she is the only one who can stop it from doing so. She is merely humoring the human village's desire to function without a leader as of now, again, to make them trust her.
Maybe I am just cynical. Definitely I am just stupid. Sorry. I'll shut up.
edited 22nd Aug '14 6:39:29 AM by Otherarrow
Don't PM me. We don't like being PMed.A little Lao Tzu seems relevant here:
- “At the center of your being you have the answer; you know who you are and you know what you want.”
- “Be careful what you water your dreams with. Water them with worry and fear and you will produce weeds that choke the life from your dream. Water them with optimism and solutions and you will cultivate success. Always be on the lookout for ways to turn a problem into an opportunity for success. Always be on the lookout for ways to nurture your dream.”
- “To lead people, walk beside them... As for the best leaders, the people do not notice their existence. The next best, the people honor and praise. The next, the people fear; and the next, the people hate... When the best leader's work is done the people say, 'We did it ourselves!'”
- “When you are content to be simply yourself and don't compare or compete, everybody will respect you.”
Miko dislikes Byakuren because she sees her as a selfish person who's just trying to build a cult to prop up her own ego, using altruism as an excuse. Byakuren just pretends not to notice when her disciples are causing trouble, because to stop them she'd have to drop her mask of being perfectly compassionate and forgiving.
Now she has a point, but everyone has flaws and Byakuren isn't ruled by them as much as Miko claims - it's just as possible she doesn't clamp down harder out of genuine concern for her followers, or because "love is blind". Maybe all three. Mainly Byakuren's ideals just clash heavily with her own.
edited 22nd Aug '14 10:50:03 AM by Prime32
Right, looks like we've wrung the last bit of talk out of our current topic.
So next we have, appropriately enough, Iku, followed less appropriately by Sekibanki and Daiyousei. But first, up in the sky! It's a bird, it's a plane, it's a delinquent on a rock plummeting right at us!
![]()

Stage: Bhavaagra
Themes: "Flawless Clothing of the Celestials"
, "Catastrophe in Bhavaagra ~ Wonderful Heaven"
*, "Bhavaagra as Seen Through a Child's Mind"
*
Spellcard Motif: I can make earthquakes and have this cool sword
Notable spellcards: SWR
, 'Soku
, DS
, ISC
\
Keystone "World Creation Press," Heaven & Earth "Violent Land that Mothers All," Heaven & Earth "Land that Oversees the Distant World Below," Swordplay "Sword of Swagger," Earthquake "Evacuation Along the Steep Path," "Kashima Protection," "Scarlet Weather Rhapsody of All Humankind"
Write-up:
A pretty blatant example of nepotism, Tenshi got to go to heaven when her parents became Celestials, but never achieved the state of mind to earn her own ascension. This led her to seek negative attention by causing an Incident to stave off boredom, resulting in the Hakurei Shrine getting wrecked for the nth time, several beatings, and Tenshi's reputation as a masochist within certain circles of the fandom.
ZUN says she's actually got a good personality, though, and Tenshi was civic-minded (or bored) enough to recently join the hunt for a rogue amanojaku. Still, most of her appearances in fan works are as an antagonist or drop-in villain, not to mention all the times she's been portrayed as Yuuka's punching bag. Surely we have something more interesting to say about her than that?
Relations
- Iku Nagae (killjoy)
- Suika Ibuki (neighbor)
- Lord Nai (daddy)
Interpretations
"Bonds of Paradise
"
by Antimatter 625
"I Still Don't Like Tenshi
"
by Otherarrow
"Trend-Breaking Celestial
"
by Diamite
See also the previous
compendiums.
edited 25th Aug '14 9:13:04 PM by Tacitus
I used to quit dislike Tenshi and thought she was annoying, but somewhere alongthe way I came to like. She's a brat, but she doesn't seem like a bad person. In essence she's a lonely child caught in a place she does not desire to be in, pushed into a position she does not fit and forced into a society of boring adults who ignore her and expect her to fit their ideals. She may look like a teenager, but for all we know her mental age may be much younger. I do believe she is a good person at heart, she just need some positive attention.
Man, and the worst kind.
"You're going too fast! You took that corner too tight! You missed a shortcut back there! You know what, just let me drive."
"Seriously be quiet and let me drive."
"I'm just saying we'd be there already if I were behind the wheel. But sure, go ahead. I won't stop you. But you are running low on gas. I told you we should have stopped at that station a while back."
Miko is a politician, first and foremost, and represents all the good and bad that government and legal structures include. They want to help us, they 'know best', and you know what, we do need them. There's a very delicate balance between governments and their people, and Miko is really the embodiment of that balance. Maybe the reason I'm so 'against' her platform is because I'm disillusioned with politics in general. I think politicians are generally sleazy slimeballs; hence, so is Miko.
Now, Tenshi: I pretty much said my peace on her last time, so I'll go in a little different direction here.
Bonds of Paradise
I can't help but draw comparisons between Tenshi and Urashima Taro (The guy who rode a turtle to the dragon palace/lunar capital). Both are/were earthly beings in a heavenly realm. And neither of them can bring themselves to just enjoy paradise. They're just too human, still bound by earthly desires and ties. Both end up returning to the earth that better suits them. Tenshi was even ready to live there note .
And that's the essence of Tenshi's plight. She's a human living in a realm not meant for humans. She's at an art convention and she is sick to death of looking at abstract paintings of X. She just wants to see an orange, not just a painting of oranges melting or something.
So, that was the recap: what I want to talk about now is her family. How are they coping with the change? She's the 'eldest daughter', so assuming she has younger siblings is reasonable. depending on how young the younger siblings are, they likely didn't have any trouble adapting to the bizarre alien social environment. They're probably growing up just fine, inasmuch as celestials 'grow up'. Heck, they might have already properly ascended or whatever since they have even fewer earthly connections to discard than most people.
Her parents on the other hand, are probably 'stuck'. They didn't ascend through enlightenment, but instead as a reward for their loyalty.
In my mind, Heaven (home of the Celestials), is meant to be a realm where one can cut their attachments to basic things like bodily functions or social interactions and focus their efforts on pursuing enlightenment. Tenshi's parents are in heaven because of those sorts of attachments. It really puts them in an awkward situation. Cutting their ties to the one who rewarded them with eternal 'paradise' is not only difficult, but probably is unwise, too note
So, because they're still bound by attachments, I really do imagine The elder Hinanai's to be a sort of 'envoy' from heaven. The other celestials don't care, so it falls on the Hinanai clan to represent them. With the irony being that they're literally the least representative of what it means to be a celestial... but that exact fact is what makes them the best representatives for the celestials. They're still human enough to relate to earthlings and the like.
They'd be able to relate well to the Watatsuki sisters, I think. Yorihime and Toyohime are coming from the opposite direction, but end up in much the same place. They're the liasons for and outer boundary of the Lunar Capital, and that puts them closest to Earth, something that in turn puts them at risk of being ostracized; when something strange happens, they're the ones at the recieving end of their culture's accusing fingers. And of course the Lunar Capital and Heaven are very similar in many regards. Paradaisical Pure Lands free of that nasty earthly desire and blood.
Which brings me back to the start. Urashima Taro was to the Watatsukis what Tenshi was to her parents. A moment of weakness. Tenshi probably would have been better left behind, but just as the Watatsuki sisters couldn't bring themselves to kill or send away Urashima Taro until it was too late, Tenshi's parents simply couldn't bear to leave her behind in the world of death. And just as Urashima Taro suffered and was immortalized note through the actions of the Watatsuki sisters, so too was Tenshi immortalized and made to suffer note through the actions of her parents.
Such is the danger of attachments, I suppose. What's the saying? "If you love something, let it go"? Tenshi needed to be let go. Maybe she'd find her way to heaven, maybe not. But she'd have been able to find her way to where she belongs. And you know what, perhaps, in SWR, that's exactly what she did.
edited 23rd Aug '14 8:29:04 AM by Antimatter625
I write some fanfiction. Satori's Tale is done... but I'm not.I still don't like Tenshi
Tenshi is a spoiled shit. This opinion of her has not changed.
A Celestial who did nothing to earn paradise, and would rather raise Hell on Earth than live in Heaven. There is some sympathy in her plight, a earthbound girl (it's even in the original name, Chiko) pulled up to Heaven partly against her will, unprepared for what paradise entails.
But while it is natural to chafe to an idealized life free of desire if you are not free of those desires yourself, to do nothing about it but whine and then decide to wreck shit on the Earth for no reason other than "I was bored, it looked fun" doesn't exactly put you in a sympathetic spot, at least IMO. I mean, she has parents and implied siblings who are likewise not enlightened, and we never hear of them raising havoc. At most, they are "lesser" than the other Celestials.
I dunno. I don't see Tenshi as the poor girl pulled into paradise against her will, but more of a spoiled rich brat who feels entitled to everything, and when she sees the poor kids having actual fun without her, she picks fights with them and stomps on their toys to force them to direct their attention to her. That is basically what Scarlet Weather Rhapsody was. Bored, spoiled Tenshi saw the people of Gensoukyou having fun without her, so she decided to break their shit and force them to pay attention to her. In Tenshi's world, she's the only one who matters and she doesn't care how much death and destruction she causes as long as she gets her amusement and attention.
She also likes rattling off Chinese proverbs to make herself look smart, but often mangles them or uses them out of the proper context.
ZUN says that Tenshi is actually a good girl and that the other characters were "bullying" her, but I am 99% sure he was joking or being sarcastic.
I guess to compare to the previous topic, Miko is a villainous character too, but she's villainous because of her pride and arrogance. I don't doubt that Miko does believe that her assuming control is what is best for humanity. Meanwhile, Tenshi has no such noble goal. She's bored. She's going to wreck shit until she is amused. She doesn't care who she crushes in her wake.
She isn't even charismatic or charming about it like Seiga is. (My comparisons are shit)
edited 23rd Aug '14 9:04:49 AM by Otherarrow
Don't PM me. We don't like being PMed.I'm reminded of that villain in Powerpuff Girls from this description, and for some reason I can't conflate their two personalities.
The PPG villain was motivated more by envy/jealousy, I think. "Those stupid protagonists with their protagonist powers! I want protagonist powers!"
While Tenshi was like "..."
"..."
"SOMETHING HAPPEN ALREADY!"
Although, looking at it another way, I suppose envy is what motivated her. "Those people on Earth, having all that fun with Spellcards. Why doesn't anyone come up here?! I know, I'll make them come up here. But how...?"
Then she gets the lightbulb over her head. And really, for her purposes, nothing less then the destruction of Reimu's home was likely to have worked. I mean, heck, It still almost didn't. Reimu is really, really lazy, and really really aimless. The shrine had to fall for Tenshi's plan, because nothing less would have gotten Reimu moving like she did note .
Tenshi's evil was born of ignorance note and pride [[Well, I can't go down there! I'd never be able to look my family in the eyes ever again![[/note]] rather than malice.
She wanted to be treated like everyone else. She wanted to fit in. And because she has no real context or ideas for how to fit in, she does the only thing that ever seems to work: cause an incident/fight Reimu. note
Of course she's a spoiled rotten, nasty punk kid who needs to learn her place. The thing about kids is that even though they're stupid and nasty and rotten little twerps, they grow up. But in Heaven, Tenshi can't grow up. There's nothing there to stimulate growth, only an environment which is meant to be almost unnoticeable. I believe the Heaven of Touhou is fairly stagnant. This is not a productive place for a child to be brought up.
I think if you told Miko that Tenshi was a celestial and let them hang in a room together for 5 minutes, Miko would be like "nopenopenope. That, good madams, is not a celestial. That is a selfish, greedy punk of a kid in a celestial's body. I'm not trying to become like her, alright? I'm trying to become like what she should be."
I'm curious what she should have done, then? Suck it up forever? The reason she made trouble is because that's how she thought you're supposed to meet people. And really, that's Reimu/Remilia/Marisa/etc's fault for spreading that image. Tenshi seemed to do what research she could. It's just that her sources were... lacking.
If one of us were introduced to a culture where the first thing anyone did upon meeting was stab each other in the face with a knife before shaking hands and hanging out together, uninjured by the stabbing, how would we figure to make friends? Stab someone in the face! Obviously they regenerate or something.
At which point we learn that their knives were those gimmick blood-filled fake-knives, and that apparently murder is as much a crime here as anywhere else. Indeed, face-stab murder is particularly evil because it's a deep betrayal of their society's foundations.
I feel like drawing some comparisons to Youmu would be fitting as well, but I can't place them exactly yet. Something about how they're both pure land inhabitants/pure beings. Maybe something with swords, I dunno. They're both childish, which is another thing...
I write some fanfiction. Satori's Tale is done... but I'm not.I think she should have at least tried to give Enlightenment a shot. Try to fit in and all. The impression I got was that she just kinda ate the food and lived the empty pleasure without even giving a thought as to what it means and then complained constantly about how boring it is. Like, she's not even trying to be a Celestial. If she tried and then succumbed to boredom and battle lust (which is natural because she is a immature...child? Teenager? How old is she supposed to be anyway?)...OK, I still think she'd be a spoiled brat because of all of her other traits, but I'd have slightly more sympathy for her.
Also, yeah, Gensoukyou and its people are not good examples on how to meet people and get attention. Everyone becomes friends by beating the shit out of each other and causing incidents, and then Reimu invites them for tea anyway.
(Miko being all "I am not going to be like Tenshi, I am going to be like what Tenshi should be" is kinda a cute mental image though.)
edited 23rd Aug '14 8:05:28 PM by Otherarrow
Don't PM me. We don't like being PMed.Maybe she did. I dunno how long she's been in heaven, but I was under the impression it was on the order of at least a hundred years, and probably much longer.
Hm, another comparison between Tenshi and Youmu arises. See, Yuyuko's on the same wavelength as Yukari. Yukari sends Ran to recruit Yuyuko, and Yuyuko replies "lolnope" because she knows Yukari will know that means that Yuyuko's on board and knows what to do. While Youmu's just like "What? Why would you say 'no' when you mean 'yes'? I DON'T UNDERSTAND YOOUUUUUU"
Meanwhile, The same sort of thing is going on with Tenshi. She just can't connect with other celestials. They're on an entirely different level of thought. She calls up a neighbor and is like:
"You want to go see a movie?"
"When the butterflies drift through the mountains, the sun will set."
"Is that... a yes?"
"The rain over the weeping lilies holds your answer."
"..."
The fact that she quotes Chinese aphorisms she doesn't understand suggests to me that she tried to communicate with the Celestials, but just couldn't get it. You can teach a parrot to say words, but you can't teach them to speak. And now she's so used to talking in non-speak that sometimes it just carries over into her 'everyday' speech.
I now imagine Tenshi flipping Miko off behind her back as she says that. The nerve! Implying Tenshi's a bad celestial.
edited 23rd Aug '14 10:07:11 PM by Antimatter625
I write some fanfiction. Satori's Tale is done... but I'm not.From what I hear, celestials who get in the hard way are pretty rare - most just get sponsorship like Tenshi's family did. The "promoted hermit" kind are really powerful though due to their extra experience.
edited 24th Aug '14 6:03:16 AM by Prime32
Tenshi's bio says that her family were more or less outcasts due to being rewarded the position, which implies that, no, it isn't common.
I guess the comparison with Youmu is like...Youmu at least tries to understand, but blunders it up due to how literal minded and naive she is, while I don't got the impression that spoiled Tenshi even put up that much effort. She probably got those cryptic responses and when she didn't understand, she just stopped trying and then complained later about how no one communicates with her.
Her mangled and misused proverbs are probably just like "those other Celestials say crap like this, so if I say crap like this too, it will show how great and enlightened I am".
edited 24th Aug '14 6:14:57 AM by Otherarrow
Don't PM me. We don't like being PMed.I should point out that Youmu also completely gave up and just started kinda... stopped thinking. I think she lasted somewhere between a week and 6 months. Tenshi may well have been at it for decades and we wouldn't know. She also might have given up immediately. I'm of the opinion she gave it at least a good faith effort, but I'm not really basing that on anything in particular.
Sounds right to me. I mean, heck, she went through all that effort of learning them, she may as well say them whenever she gets the chance. Maybe she's just stupid and thinks that's what being enlightened is. Just being able to spew nonsense gibberish. I'm probably being too hard on her but I don't really put a lot of faith in her intellect.
It's hard to interact with celestials. They're like neutrinos or something.
I write some fanfiction. Satori's Tale is done... but I'm not.If Youmu gave up, I think it's like...she didn't notice she gave up. She just kinda kept doing the literal meaning of what she was told and not grasped the proper meaning and assumed that Yuyuko was just being a weirdo.
Meanwhile, sorry, I can't see someone like Tenshi give Celestialdom an honest effort. At most, she tried it for a few minutes and got bored/confused, then never attempted it again. At most, she taught herself the proverbs so she can fake it and use them to lord herself over the poor kids down in Gensoukyou.
edited 24th Aug '14 7:57:26 AM by Otherarrow
Don't PM me. We don't like being PMed.From one aspiring to become a celestial to one who is a celestial. Randomness is awesome like that.
Tenshi Hinanawi:
A young-looking girl who is a member of the enlightened class known as celestials. Very spoiled.
Trend-Breaking Celestial:
Tenshi used to be a human, but then her family, for its unshakable loyalty, was rewarded with a very prestigious promotion: a promotion to celestialdom. She went with them, of course.
I think Tenshi's first days as a celestial were turbulent. I mean, the change in locale and scenery, and meeting new celestial folk must have made her a little shy. But once those days passed, she was comfortable, riding on the coattails of her family's major success.
But as the days went on, she gradually realized something; this place is dull. What used to be cool and awesome isn't cool and awesome anymore to her. Nothing exciting happens here. "This is enlightenment? It's dreadful.", she thought. While the rest of her family went with the flow, She refused to be locked in a generic routine for the rest of her life. She wanted the fun back! The thrill of being alive was something she yearned for.
So she decided to cause an incident in Gensokyo. On a whim. For her own amusement. I think she did her "research" on the realm, and interpreted that greetings are usually done violently. We all know she went overboard with hers. Reimu was cross, yes, but Yukari was also cross with her, something that is hard to accomplish, in my opinionnote .
I wonder if her family got into trouble because of her tendency to go against the flow of celestialdom... Then again, the family never did attain celestialdom the traditional way, which is why Tenshi's acting the way she is. ...I wonder if the person who awarded them this prestige was actually doing them a disservice? Like, it was done because he didn't think this through, was getting tired of being served by the same people(which would be one big can of stupid), or he did it just because he could...
edited 24th Aug '14 3:23:26 PM by Diamite
Youmu knew she was giving up. (CILR ch7)
Maybe Tenshi doesn't, though. Maybe she just misinterpreted something too literally. Maybe she heard a celestial say something like "The earth trembles at the height of the season." and decided that meant that she should make a big ol' earthquake in midsummer. You know, rather than taking it as the invitation for a picnic at noon that it was intended to be.
Or maybe that'll just be her excuse when the celestial appeals court hears her case.
I write some fanfiction. Satori's Tale is done... but I'm not.Save the Youmu bashing for her topic. Trust me, you will have a lot of support there.
Also, yeah, Tenshi, well, she's not too bright, but I don't think she is that stupid. She knew full well what she was doing.
Though lying about it during Celestial appeals does seem like the perfect ass covering option.
Why did Tenshi lend a hand in the pursuit of Seija? Perhaps she went to Gensokyo one day(Heck, I'd like to think that she makes frequent, low-key trips there after the Scarlet Weather Incident), and had a run-in with her. Only to have a nice taste of good 'ol amanojaku trolling. After that, she went back and complained to Iku about how she brutally got screwed over. So when she caught wind of the Seija Hunt...
Tenshi:*kicks down door* "So, I hear you guys are trying to catch that darn amanojaku, huh? Mind if I...*cracks knuckles* lend a hand?"
And she still got trolled by Seija.

Not a lot people don't like Miko, don't they? Miko is a charismatic, manipulative figure who claims to wnat is best for humanity but is actually a selfish person. Miko seems pretty chill to me but she is arrogant and proud. Also, Miko has a a strange sort of charisma that gravitates towards her.
edited 21st Aug '14 1:17:16 PM by GAP
"Fan, a Mega Man character."