The New New Touhou Character Alternate Interpretation Compendium

Isn't it obvious? She still has desire for the little things, like good food, tea, a well kept home, etc. Those little desires are still desires, are they not?

Or something. I wouldn't know.

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Actually, enjoying the little things in line is perfectly in line with Buddhist teachings...

I can definitely see your point. I can't really argue for the "enlightenment" idea much better than saying that it just makes sense to me. I did have to add the caveat that her consciousness is not completely dissolved in the ether or anything and she still has a physical body that likes to be pleased. But... it makes sense to me!

She also wanted to raise the dead, wants to be a good host, wants to do things and enjoy 'life'. She has plenty of desires. Heck, despite not needing food, she still eats it, and seems to often be thinking of it. She's got attachments, in other words, more than just the seal.

And unlike pretty much everyone else, there's not much reason for her to ditch them. I mean, she's already pretty much stuck where she is thanks to the seal, so there's not a lot of... 'motivation' to pursue enlightenment, so to speak. Not much point in climbing the tree if you aren't allowed to pick the apples.

I write some fanfiction. Satori's Tale is done... but I'm not.

From a historical perspective rather than a spiritual one, Buddhism is actually a rather moderate religion compared to its peers of the time (which surely helped it spread so far). For example, Buddha is usually portrayed as being somewhat plump because he didn't advocate starving yourself or any other forms of ascetic masochism. The world is an illusion and desire is the source of all suffering, but neither of those are reasons to torture yourself.

Yeah, that makes sense. That states it better than I could.

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No better way to cultivate an intense earthly desire for food than by starving yourself, after all.

Exactly. Comfort is a way to free yourself of distractions. It's a tool to be used to help reach enlightenment. Seeking comfort is not wrong.

While that's true, I think Yuyuko perhaps seeks too much excitement. Good point on the food, though... it's the whole reason heaven seems to exist in (At least my headcanon of) Touhou... to provide all the necessities so the celestials can (in theory, at least) focus on enlightenment.

edited 11th Nov '13 7:15:54 AM by Antimatter625

I write some fanfiction. Satori's Tale is done... but I'm not.

The Doctor : "Emotions have their uses"

Cyber Leader : "They restrict and curtail the intellect, and logic of the mind."

The Doctor : "They also enhance life. When did you last have the pleasure of smelling a flower, watching a sunset, eating a well-prepared meal?"

Cyber Leader : "These things are irrelevant."

The Doctor : "For some people, small, beautiful events is what life is all about!"

Forever liveblogging the Avengers

Fixed.

Just because its an afterlife, doesn't mean you can't have a life!

Go, live (figuratively speaking), get captured by fairies and used as air conditioning! You've got to throw yourself in! Eat the food, use the wrong verbs, get charged double and end up kissing complete strangers!

edited 11th Nov '13 9:48:04 AM by Bocaj

Forever liveblogging the Avengers

I'm very certain it's talking about individuals. More certain than who the person other than Reimu in the sentence is supposed to be.

In my view, people often underestimate how enlightened Mokou is, and overestimate how enightened Yuyuko is. Maybe partially because ZUN doesn't seem to much care about Buddhism's enlightenment in the first place, yet people generally know more about Buddhist values.

edited 11th Nov '13 3:41:19 PM by atrican

Stop atrican from crawling out of the dumpster! Touhou status updates

Mokou's probably had even longer to ruminate than Yuyuko, but other than their immortality their circumstances are quite different. Yuyuko's freed from the limitations of her flesh, removed from the difficulties of mortal relationships, enjoying a job that doesn't seem very demanding, and positioned on the side of the boundary between life and death that's closer to the nirvana. Mokou's immortality means that her body's aches and pains will never end, estranged from all but a few mortals, consumed by her desire for vengeance, and will never enter the afterlife, for good or ill. Plus the whole crazy centuries.

I'm not saying its impossible for Mokou to be more enlightened than Yuyuko, I just find it unlikely that someone with that many Dark Side points will be further along that road than someone working for the celestial bureaucracy.

Come to think of it, I don't know enough about Buddhism, but Yuyuko's condition means she's out of the cycle or reincarnation. But does that necessarily preclude her reaching nirvana through meditation anyway? In fact...

Sounds a bit like Pure Land Buddhism, a more accessible variant of the religion that allowed peasants to focus on faith more than a life of virtuous deeds or religious ceremonies. The theory is you get to the Pure Land after you die if you believe in the(a?) Buddha, and in that paradise he can show you the way to full enlightenment.

So there's that precedent for ghosts/departed souls reaching nirvana. I guess the big question is whether Yuyuko's bored of her job yet.

Current earworm: "Awe of the Unknown"

She's sealed by her corpse. It's not an option for her in any circumstance.

Yet she's also learned to ignore them, which says a lot. She doesn't care about eating because she doesn't need to, hunger be damned. Contrast with Yuyuko, who likely doesn't even get hungry, but eats anyway. There's a difference between indulgence and comfort, and I think I see Yuyuko leaning more towards the former.

As mentioned, mostly a moot point since no matter how enlightened she becomes, she's still stuck her to 'life partner' the Saigyou Ayakashi. Maybe if they both become enlightened then they can escape together or something, but... uh. It's a tree. Good luck with that?

Mokou is a pretty interesting contrast to Yuyuko in a lot of ways, really. Maybe that's why she's so worried... its like she met her evil opposite or something.

I write some fanfiction. Satori's Tale is done... but I'm not.

Sort of. I think desire is on the lines of what you want and not enjoying what you have. So, if say you have ice cream, you enjoy it, that is not desiring ice cream. But say if you don't have ice cream and want that, that would be desire. So, if say, Yuyuko wants chicken and it is hard to get, that would be desire. But if Yuyuko will like the chicken that is being cooked, then, that would be just enjoying it.

I disagree. When does she seek too much excitement? As far as I can tell, she seeks excitement that is presented to her. Of course, an exception being trying to raise that evil tree of doom.

Okay, I was just wondering about the wording, that is all.

I see Yuyuko as more on the path of enlightenment because of Scarlet Weather Rhapsody. Mokou is not in Scarlet Weather Rhapsody and there isn't enough supporting evidence in Mokou's case.

Yuyuko's dialogue in Scarlet Weather Rhapsody implies she can ascend if she has no lingering attachments. So, I would assume there is a way, if that is her desire. But of course, that is catch 22, since desiring it would lead to lack of enlightenment.

I don't think caring about hunger is what enlightenment is about. You do not ignore your bodily needs for the sake of enlightenment. But then again, enlightenment's definition is vague, so whatever works.

Everything is relative.

How long are we going to dwell on Yuyuko, exactly?

Until we're done. Historically there's been an unofficial "no conversation for 24 hours" timer, although usually that just spurs more conversation.

edited 12th Nov '13 5:51:57 AM by Clarste

That's indeed a good reminder. Perhaps if Yuyuko want to descend, the seal will not stop her. Who knows, doing so might even allow Saigyou Ayakashi to die properly.

The sects of Buddhism have developed extremely elaborate metaphysics about everything they care, including the process of enlightenment. Ancient Buddhists were smart enough to realize "the desire to reach nirvana" is a desire too. The problem, as with other highly developed religions, is getting the sects to agree with each other on their metaphysics.

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I wouldn't be opposed to moving on within the next day.

I think nearly two weeks of conversation on a single character may be some kind of record. Way to go, Yuyuko!

As a reminder, the next three characters will be Chiyuri, Reimu and Meira. So without further ado...

Resident of Fantasy That Runs Through Time Chiyuri Kitashirakawa

Appearance:

Theme: "Sailor of Time,"*

also sometimes associated with "Winds of Time"*

I used this as I was building the game system before I made any characters. There weren't any characters that really fit this song, so I tossed it.

Signature Weapons:
Handgun, Folding Chair

Write-up:
Part of Touhou's Early-Installment Weirdness, Chiyuri hails from another dimension, a world with a Grand Unified Theory of Everything and probability space hypervessels. But at least one woman from there thinks that "magic" might exist, and thus this fifteen-year-old grad assistant found herself in Gensokyo, helping her boss find test subjects.

Chiyuri was the one who organized fliers trying to lure magically-empowered individuals into their spaceship, the one who confronted the protagonist with a pistol, the one who got bonked for confronting the protagonist with a pistol, and the one who hit her boss with a folding chair when it looked like the world might be destroyed. Her final grade for this research project is unknown.

The sum effect of this contact with another world on Gensokyo may have been Marisa stealing Chiyuri's verbal tic.

Relationships:

• Yumemi Okazaki (superior, academic adviser?)
• PoDD's protagonist (specimen to be captured)
• Chiyuri Kitashirakawa ("confusing")

Contributions:
"The Girl Who Traveled Through Time and Space"
by Diamite

Spellcard... Story... Telling?
by Horselesshorseman

See also the first two Compendiums.

edited 1st Dec '13 2:02:58 PM by Tacitus

Current earworm: "Awe of the Unknown"

Okay, first sailor girl. Actually, why does she have a sailor uniform? She's a grad student, not a high-schooler or a sailor

Er, back on Chiyuri. She's interesting in that she's the only character in PoDD that does much other than throw bullets around: Her spells and ex attacks work to block off your movement. Which is actually kind of crap, considering the lethality of most spells in that game. Charge attack is also mediocre, but that's mitigated by her high charge speed. She does have probably the most dangerous boss attack, though. Not that it elevates her above a speedbump on the path to Yumemi

Turning the above into characterization, I'd say that she's trying to fight smart and mess with the enemy, but overdoes it and forgets to be actually dangerous. Then gets frustrated and goes all out during the boss attacks

Also, I haven't changed my mind from what I said last time

It's time for...

Spellcard...Story...telling?

PC-98 had no spellcards, but there are patterns similar to those that are defined as spellcards in POFV in PODD, therefore if such as pattern is used by Chiyuri then it can be considered one of Chiyuri's spellcards. EDIT: All patterns are actual named, but this information was lost upon the winds of time only to be uncovered by one Atrican in exactly one page.

EDIT: Charged shot actual name: Time Cutter. Let's start off with Chiyuri's basic shot. I'm having a bit of trouble defining exactly what it is, but it reminds me of a blast in an old Megaman game, which is fitting seeing as Chiyuri relies on technology, not magic. Granted it's technology that is designed to have the semblance of magic, but it is not magic itself. It is a gun, but not a magic gun. She can increase the power to the point that it covers all space in front, and to the side of her. She can also charge it to fire a wave of large shots directly in front of her.

EDIT: Bomb actual name: Dream Clock. Chiyuri's bomb I shall dub, Time Crash. Because it's literally just a picture of a cracked clock frozen in time. I can think of no better name for it, but also nothing in particular to note about it.

EDIT: Actual name: Ruined Walls of Dimensions. Her first spellcard I'll dub, um, Full Directional Laser, nailed it. In this spell Chiyuri fires lasers from, or at depending on your view, the bottom of the screen in a manner similar to Marisa. There's an outline of the beam telling you to get out the way before it deals any damage. There's actually a connect the dots effect between the two edges it fires from. I wonder what they are? Portals used to fire the beam from her side to the opponents, portable relays for a Kill Sat positioned in a fantasy orbit, or maybe her gun has a setting that allows her to fire at two points in space and create the beam?

EDIT: Boss attack actual name: Sailor of Time. For her next attack Chiyuri will teleport around her opponents side of the screen at fire a spread shot in a full 360 radius around her. Occasionally, she'll stay in place repeating fire with smaller bullets scattering from where she teleported to. It is safe to say that such abilities are also the results of technology. I for one can't wait for my teleportation belts and personalized Kill Sats stationed in magical dimensions, but for now I guess I have the internet. Same thing.

Umm... then she has another techique in which she charges her lasers before firing multiple times at the opponents current location, resulting in lines of bullets overlapping at the opponent's location. Right now Chiyuri is beginning to remind me of a certain bomb-happy witch. Her abilities are pure fire power, and so far the only one of them that is aimed is aimed at a moving opponents current location. She's just shooting to kill, and often times will fail without a spirit blocking off the enemies way of escape, or a laser beam, which she seems to be able to fire faster than her bullets, actually. One shouldn't expect a 15 year old grad student to have extensive combat experience. I wonder if such an advanced time has a standing army... perhaps that's too utopian? Either way, It's become clear that Chiyuri delights in power, not strategy.

Now she's teleported on the enemy's side, and is firing in all cardinal directions in, what a guess I'd call, a wave pattern. However, after a second teleport she fire off four concentrated arcs of bullets each intersecting the other going above and below her. Then she repeat with arcs going horizontally before teleporting again and repeating staring at the vertical arcs. It's very strange attack. At this moment, I begin to notice Chiyuri's teleport portal design. It is a circle with four circles located at each cardinal point, she is in the middle on a red star background, it looks familiar, but I can't place why. Beyond that, it appears her bullets spawn from these points.

Upon closer inspection, these teleport attacks don't seem to be separate spells, but a random order of patterns that she'll shoot before teleporting. I guess she really is the type to go into a fight with no plan so long as she's got the biggest gun. Anyway, that seems to be the extent of her danmaku prowess. I'm sure there's rules to determine what patterns she uses, but for now here's a list of what she can do.

EDIT: Her uncovered attack names make her time motif much more readily apparent. I wonder if she has a Time/Space dynamic with Yumemi? It also raises the possibility of her actually using Time to attack; For instance: what if she's not teleporting, but sending an attack into the future so that she can focus on dodging in the present.

edited 13th Nov '13 3:58:04 PM by Horselesshorseman

I have no horse, and I must ride. I accomplish unlockments.

Ah, yes. Chiyuri. She is a Yumemi's assistant and works as a assistant professor at a university, all at the tender age of 15 (...her profile says that this isn't uncommon in her world.Heck, Yumemi is only 18) Her and Yumemi don't get along as well as either would probably like, what with Chiyuri being a bit of a immature brat and Yumemi being quick to punish her with whacks on the head.

Anyway, yeah. Chiyuri and Yumemi came into Gensoukyou on board their Probability Space Hypervessal in order to prove Yumemi's theory about the existence of magic and how it stands outside the Grand Unified Theory. Naturally, the best way to do this is to spread pamphlets inviting a bunch of people to duke it out at the "ruins" with the promise of a wish. All without your boss's knowing.

And then threaten the winner with a gun.

(Chiyuri deserved some of those whacks)

Anyway, like Yumemi, Chiyuri fights using sciency pseudo-magic.

Oh, also, there is an alternate Chiyuri native to Gensoukyou who can use magic naturally, to the envy and confusion of Yumemi and the first Chiyuri. She still seems to be a brat though.

edited 13th Nov '13 5:16:36 AM by Otherarrow

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Marisa stole her verbal tick, almost literally.

When she tries to "ze" now, all she can manage is a dial-up tone.