TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

The New New Touhou Character Alternate Interpretation Compendium

Go To

Tacitus Since: Jan, 2001
#1301: May 24th 2014 at 7:59:43 PM

My headcanon has the Misty Lake and its environs (including the SDM, of course) as becoming the 'foreign quarter' of Gensokyo.

That's a neat idea. Can easily see Remilia lording over and/or trying to recruit any other Western supernatural individuals. On the one hand, this could potentially be a disruptive thing with a bunch of foreign weirdos upsetting the balance of power, or even trying to secede from Gensokyo (however that would work). On the other hand, maybe the powers that do are counting on such folk being naturally fractious, or even if Remilia manages to gain control over them, she knows how to control them, and make them play by the rules.

It occurs to me that Remilia could imagine herself one of the founders of Gensokyo (as we know it). That'd be a weird looking Mount Rushmore.

The Prismriver's 'Ruined Western-styled Mansion' also being on the shore of Misty lake is what started my thinking of the area as the foreign quarter.

I keep forgetting that exists. Wonder how much of a racket resulted when Remi tried to recruit the poltergeists as SDM residents?

GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#1302: May 24th 2014 at 8:31:17 PM

Remilia could convince the western monsters to play by the rules as long as she could be the head honcho of the group. There could be a bit of a culture clash considering that most of the monsters are foreigners and they are not used to Japanese culture. I wonder if the SDM crew experienced a bit of a culture clash when they arrived in Gensokyo?

"Fan, a Mega Man character."
nuclearfairy Idiotic Good from the worst island nation Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Idiotic Good
#1303: May 25th 2014 at 5:58:39 AM

I wonder if the SDM crew experienced a bit of a culture clash when they arrived in Gensokyo?

Could be the reason for the five-year gap: lots of preparation time. Of course, when they found out that one of the primary ways of doing things is similar to their previous method (read: violence), quite a few members were a bit irate.

Well, some members. Okay, maybe a few members. Okay, mostly Remilia.

On the other hand, it would be a bit of a relief for the SDM that danmaku is a viable thing in Gensokyo: humans would probably lump the SDM as youkai territory, and youkai are naturally belligerent anyways. This could also be a factor of Remilia's lack of change; as a youkai she probably wouldn't want to, and even if she wanted to it would be more trouble than it's worth.

The idea of a Western quarter does interest me a bit. Question is why the ones running the show would allow something like that. Why bring in foreign monsters and risk disruption? Is there an idealistic/ pragmatic reason behind it ( lack of western Gensokyo equivalent/ increase youkai presense)? What's keeping the other factions from, well, taking matters into their own hands ( probably a lack of interest or power)?

"Creative" doesn't mean "good", but it's fun no matter how you slice it.
Durazno Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#1304: May 25th 2014 at 9:22:22 AM

There might be more of a place for Western youkai in Gensokyo now that monsters from the West have a greater presence in the collective imagination of Japan, do you think?

edited 28th May '14 8:44:13 PM by Durazno

Tacitus Since: Jan, 2001
#1305: May 25th 2014 at 9:44:23 PM

Maybe their inclusion is a countermeasure to that trend. Dump the Scarlet Devil Mansion and other foreign devils in their own quarter, keep them apart but visible, consciously make a space for non-Japanese youkai. Otherwise those foreign monsters will seep into the national consciousness and start twisting the local youkai into things they aren't, like Yoshika picking up zombie traits, or Sekibanki having neck problems. It's bad enough that they had to implement reaping psychopomps after some missionaries showed up a couple centuries ago.

So the Scarlets get to come in with their big fancy mansion and serve as examples of what wanna-be Dracula vampires are and what jiang-shi aren't. The danger is that the Scarlets already have a Japanese(?) maid and a Chinese gatekeeper, and even a Patchouli. If they go too native they might not be considered foreigners any more, and then the different types of youkai will continue mixing.

shiroimahotsukai White Mage with a Twist from Somewhere Since: Oct, 2010
White Mage with a Twist
#1306: May 26th 2014 at 2:36:52 AM

Maybe that's what Eientei's there for, to show what happens when you do go native. We don't know what their civilisation was like a thousand years ago but it's hard to imagine it being Japanese to the same extent as Eientei is.

So we've got one group serving as an example to newcomers of how to go native and adapt yourself to your environment and we've got the other that's showing how not to do that, how to maintain your cultural identity while just taking the parts you like and still fit in.

If Gensokyo is a place for all manner of creatures, from all manner of cultures, to reside if there isn't enough belief left Outside, then they've got perfect role models. Not just in terms of conduct but in terms of adaptability and integration.

The eyes are the windows that let us gaze upon the soul.
Antimatter625 Baring hearts for years from my secret place Since: Jan, 2012
Baring hearts for years
#1307: May 27th 2014 at 12:22:35 AM

On the one hand, this could potentially be a disruptive thing with a bunch of foreign weirdos upsetting the balance of power, or even trying to secede from Gensokyo (however that would work).

Perhaps, but I think the fact that we haven't seen way, way more western monsters means they've got their own corners of the world to hide in. I mean, Remilia had to pull strings and use contacts to get her Chupacabra, so it's not like all mythical creatures just kinda 'fall in' to Gensokyo.

Which means that Remi (And the other westerners) are fond of Japanese culture to an extent. Think kinda like "it's a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't wanna live there." She wants to be able to go and mingle with it whenever, but she's also got her pride as a western vampire to uphold, you know. So the happy compromise is to live in the 'western quarter'.

I keep forgetting that exists. Wonder how much of a racket resulted when Remi tried to recruit the poltergeists as SDM residents?

I can imagine this going badly in about 20 ways. I don't picture Remi (Or patchy for that matter) tolerating a cacophany for more than a few minutes.

It occurs to me that Remilia could imagine herself one of the founders of Gensokyo (as we know it).

She really is, honestly. The Vampire Incident motivated the spellcard rules. Remilia's immigration wildly changed Gensokyo. Mount Rushmore would just be tacky, though. Besides, it'd have to go on youkai mountain, and those jealous tengu would probably just deface it, the jerks.

Question is why the ones running the show would allow something like that. Why bring in foreign monsters and risk disruption?

Well, Remilia wasn't just evicted after the Vampire Incident, so since the SDM was here to stay, putting the other foreign monsters right next door would be the simplest form of damage control. Also, as mentioned, the SDM does blend culturally with Japan, so they may have been allowed in on a sort of "You're welcome to stay, and even rock the boat sometimes. But if you're gonna be here in Japan, you gotta be a Japanese Vampire, so here's your new list of weaknesses. Take'em and stay, or leave'em and get out."

Otherwise those foreign monsters will seep into the national consciousness and start twisting the local youkai into things they aren't

Also a really neat idea.

So we've got one group serving as an example to newcomers of how to go native and adapt yourself to your environment and we've got the other that's showing how not to do that, how to maintain your cultural identity while just taking the parts you like and still fit in.

Thing is... it's not entirely clear which is which. Certainly, the SDM could be either; they're both maintaining their cultural identity, and going native. Eientei is probably losing more of their identity, I'd think; what with accepting impurity into their home and hearts, enjoying its dynamism as Earthlings do... and they're also far less eager to go native; they're far more reserved, and SSIB is like a hazing ritual to remind them "You're a part of this country now; start following the rules. You sided with the humans, so feed youkai fear. You don't think them fearsome? We'll just fix that up."

I write some fanfiction. Satori's Tale is done... but I'm not.
Impostermetaknight Grand Practitioner of Fairy Logic from Studying crop circles Since: Jul, 2013 Relationship Status: Wishing you were here
Grand Practitioner of Fairy Logic
#1308: May 28th 2014 at 5:04:09 PM

Well, Remilia wasn't just evicted after the Vampire Incident

When was the vampire incident?

edited 28th May '14 5:04:47 PM by Impostermetaknight

Tacitus Since: Jan, 2001
#1309: May 28th 2014 at 7:45:45 PM

Before the Scarlet Mist Incident, but presumably after the Scarlet Devil Mansion arrived in Gensokyo, since we don't know of any other vampires (Kurumi: sad) who could have been involved. An Aya article mentions the SDM approximately five years before the Scarlet Mist Incident, ergo the Vampire Incident happened sometime before that article.

Or else Aya is a horrible reporter who completely failed to cover the groundbreaking event that founded the spellcard system even after being aware of the SDM.

edited 28th May '14 7:46:56 PM by Tacitus

Durazno Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#1310: May 28th 2014 at 8:49:27 PM

Is it ever explicitly stated that the vampire of the vampire incident was Remi? Because, if not, it's also possible that that vampire was killed.

Antimatter625 Baring hearts for years from my secret place Since: Jan, 2012
Baring hearts for years
#1311: May 28th 2014 at 10:04:25 PM

In the end, the vampire was defeated through the efforts of the most powerful youkai, and a settlement was reached through a contract that placed a number of prohibitions on the vampire's activities.

This (From Reimu's PMISS profile), along with

If one refers to vampires that are known to exist in Gensokyo, they must be the Scarlet family living in the Scarlet Devil Mansion.

From Remi's, strongly implicates Remilia as the vampire in question; said vampire is alive, from the first one, and the second one implies it's only the Scarlets.

Or else Aya is a horrible reporter who completely failed to cover the groundbreaking event that founded the spellcard system even after being aware of the SDM.

While I wouldn't put that past her, I think it possible she simply didn't start producing her newsletter (or focusing on off-the-mountain-events, at least) until after (during?) the vampire incident.

I suspect the vampire incident happened even earlier, since when the prismrivers move their concert for the SDM, there isn't any mention of a crowd reaction to going to 'the place that the extremely violent monster' lives, so the Vampire Incident probably was far enough in the past that it wasn't dwelling on people's minds so much.

edited 28th May '14 10:08:29 PM by Antimatter625

I write some fanfiction. Satori's Tale is done... but I'm not.
Tacitus Since: Jan, 2001
#1312: May 29th 2014 at 8:15:50 PM

It occurs to me that after spending so much time on the Scarlet Devil Mansion, we might as well open up the first Review Period. The conversation on that location is slow but still ongoing, so we can continue that discussion as needed.

For everyone else, now's an opportunity to get caught up if you've got any belated thoughts about:

Reimu, Meira, Ellen, Chiyuri, Yumemi, Sara, Letty, Yuyuko, Medicine, Komachi, Sanae, Kogasa, Benben and Yatsuhashi Tsukumo, Raiko, Akyuu, Reisen, or Bhava-agra.

edited 29th May '14 8:16:15 PM by Tacitus

Otherarrow Since: Jul, 2010
#1313: May 30th 2014 at 5:33:13 AM

You knuckleheads spent more time talking about the fucking red house than you did talking about a lot of those characters Tacitus linked for the review period.

What is wrong with you?

Anyway, review period! ...I am drawing a blank at the moment, but yeah, something I can actually talk about!

Don't PM me. We don't like being PMed.
Antimatter625 Baring hearts for years from my secret place Since: Jan, 2012
Baring hearts for years
#1314: May 30th 2014 at 6:21:09 AM

To be fair, the big red house discussion includes plenty of points about Eintei and the SDM crew and Remi in particular, so... yeah.

I write some fanfiction. Satori's Tale is done... but I'm not.
Otherarrow Since: Jul, 2010
#1315: May 30th 2014 at 6:27:06 AM

If you guys have nothing to say about those things when it comes time for that, I know what to blame then.

...Eh, don't mind me. I am just being sour grapes I guess.

edited 30th May '14 6:34:07 AM by Otherarrow

Don't PM me. We don't like being PMed.
ninryu Crown Prince from The Outside World Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Crown Prince
#1316: May 30th 2014 at 10:25:45 AM

The idea of a Western quarter does interest me a bit. Question is why the ones running the show would allow something like that. Why bring in foreign monsters and risk disruption? Is there an idealistic/ pragmatic reason behind it
They way I see it Yukari established Gensoukyo as a resort for all fantastical beings when she realized fantasy will eventually go extinct. So it doesn't matter if they are Western or Japanese, because Gensoukyo is a reservation for all youkai. As long they play by the rules, of course.

Tacitus Since: Jan, 2001
#1317: May 30th 2014 at 10:45:17 AM

[up][up]Peace. Some discussions on "major" characters are short because they're so well-established there is little to talk about, and some discussions about "minor" topics go on for longer if someone has an interesting or original observation. Other times discussions run short or long based simply on who is available to chat that week. We shouldn't feel the need to regulate the conversation to ensure a character gets the time they "deserve." If people have something to say, they'll talk, otherwise we'll move on to the next topic.

[up]Hmm, immigration parallels. [insert country name here] welcomes anyone from anywhere, so long as they're willing to follow our laws, learn the local language, and assimilate into our culture.

Or maybe culture is less important when you're dealing with such a diverse group of monsters. Yes, technically the kappa and tengu and oni are all Japanese, but how much can they be said to have in common with the national culture? They don't even have all that in common with each other, beyond a shared history. You could argue that the Scarlets have more in common with the Japanese people (humans) than the native-born youkai, since the vampires pretend to be humans most of the time.

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#1318: May 30th 2014 at 11:00:44 AM

But Remilia eats bread!

She'll never fit in....

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#1319: May 30th 2014 at 3:42:44 PM

Vampires are kind of human looking anyway and they can integrate with other cultures a lot easier than most youkai.

"Fan, a Mega Man character."
Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#1320: May 30th 2014 at 3:46:11 PM

Touhou vampires have wings. There's no indication that they can hide them. In that sense they probably stand out more than most youkai, doubly so on account of being forced to avoid direct sunlight and running water and whatnot. It's hard to hide that kind of omnipresent weakness.

Tacitus Since: Jan, 2001
#1321: May 30th 2014 at 6:07:04 PM

It all depends on what you're looking at. If you take a Japanese peasant, a Western vampire, and a kappa, and divide them based on whether they eat bread or rice, the vampire is going to look out of place. If you distinguish them based on whether they consider it socially acceptable to pull someone's soul from their anus, the vampire and the peasant are going to have more in common.

You've just got to ask yourself what's important here, the ability to enjoy a sunny day at the beach with your neighbor, or not having to worry about death by surprise proctology.

Tacitus Since: Jan, 2001
#1322: Jun 1st 2014 at 9:33:43 PM

Hmm, nothing about any of the characters who've come and gone? Well, I've been thinking about one.

"Shell of a Ghost"

Spirits are supposed to go somewhere. They end up facing punishment for their mortal sins, linger in the Netherworld for a spell while awaiting reincarnation, or stop running in circles and attain nirvana. They're either refining themselves, burning out impurities, or evaporating into perfection.

Not so Yuyuko.

She's stuck, no longer moving through that cycle, so stuck in fact that she's become the fulcrum of a whole otherworldly operation, something on which other souls pivot. It's a unique situation, something the powers that be might not have anticipated. Yuyuko is the soul of a dead person, but I'd reckon she's Yuyuko Saigyouji in name only.

Your soul is supposed to be you, a continuation of your experience traveling through existence, your instincts and inclinations and memories of what you've done. But when young Yuyuko killed herself, she was a frightened child, inexperienced and unable to deal with her own power. Dead Yuyuko is elegant, confident, intelligent, playful, hedonistic. I'd say that discrepancy right there is proof that the "unchangeability" of a Pure Land like the Netherworld doesn't apply to immaterial stuff.

Anyway, young Yuyuko forgot her past life. She forgot her fear. Maybe this amnesia is what allowed her "natural" intelligence and elegance and so forth to rise to the fore, but I'm skeptical that it's all something she forgot over the course of becoming an empowered teenager, and relearned when she died. So where did it come from? Yuyuko was placed in the role of the Netherworld's ghost princess, and that forced certain attributes on her. She had to act refined as the dead's hostess, she had to keep up with all the souls she was managing. And since beyond this responsibility she had nothing else to do, she also became a bit odd and playful, to keep herself from going mad from boredom (unless this is the result of that process).

My point is that Yuyuko's current character is something less than the ghost of Yuyuko Saigyouji, a spirit with the same power as that girl, and who performs certain functions in the Netherworld that require certain attribute, but who lacks any other ties to the departed. A ghost of a ghost. If Eiki Shiki is a former idol who received judicial powers and inclinations, and a bit of a personality to go around that, Yuyuko is a former soul who adapted to fit her new position, but lost the parts that made her Yuyuko.

So if someone tried to resurrect the corpse under the Saigyou Ayakashi, what could inhabit it?

edited 5th Jun '14 10:37:38 PM by Tacitus

GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#1323: Jun 2nd 2014 at 1:23:21 AM

[up] You know I never thought of that. Who is to say that it would a human occupy that body?

"Fan, a Mega Man character."
Diamite Rainy Echoes Since: Jul, 2013
Rainy Echoes
#1324: Jun 2nd 2014 at 1:38:06 AM

[up][up]Huh. Interesting. Also, I think she's Yoshika's opposite. Yuyuko forgot her past life, and is now living a carefree life, looking ahead to the future. Yoshika, when left to her own devices, catches glimpses of her past life. And she carries out commands without a second thought. Because she can't think. So you can say she is technically trapped in the here and now, unable to look towards the future, and the past is filled with memories she can't quite grasp. Since she's undead.

Man, that contrast must've been confusing...


I'd imagine that Akyuu would continue updating the chronicles even if an apocalyptic event were to occur. She'd be on the move, being carried by Keine, while writing down every second of the grand phenomena. Because...every second counts.

I wonder if Keine can eat apocalyptic events as a part of history...


In another universe, Meira's Reimu's aide. Except there isn't really anything to be an aide of. So yeah, she too would be lazing about the shrine...

...Well, she could cut down unruly youkai and actually maintain the shrine, making it look brand spanking new even though it's decrepit. There, aide stuff.tongue

edited 2nd Jun '14 1:38:26 AM by Diamite

Prime32 Since: Jan, 2001
#1325: Jun 2nd 2014 at 4:58:52 AM

[up] Well yeah, Yuyuko is a soul without a body, and Yoshika is a body without a soul.

[up][up][up] The doujin Maiden's Illusionary Funeral had an interesting take on that. Yuyuko had a completely different personality while alive, closer to Byakuren. Originally her soul was sealed into the Saigyou Ayakashi along with her body. Yukari tried to pull it out but it had already become partially fused with the tree, so it was heavily damaged in the process. The last scene is set in the present day, with Yukari doing a dance she once did with the living Yuyuko, and ghost Yuyuko not recognising it but finding herself crying.

edited 2nd Jun '14 5:11:49 AM by Prime32


Total posts: 4,447
Top