The New New Touhou Character Alternate Interpretation Compendium

It is interesting that Hecatia Greek(?) Goddess who governs many hells. I also makes you wonder how the Celestial Bureaucracy works in regards to her?

Yeah, that's the what-iest thing about this whole situation. It's been a loooong time since the days of PC-98 weirdness like an archangel from Judaic tradition flitting about, or oddly Western names for some demon folk. Thought we'd left that all behind and settled into a solidly Eastern setting then bam, someone heavily implied to be a goddess right out of Classical mythology shows up, is stated by the creator to be the most powerful entity we've seen yet, and is working for the same organization that employs the yama we're all familiar with.

It's possible that this Hecatia is only just wearing the name in an attempt to seem ancient and mysterious much like she's wearing a Hot Topic shirt in an attempt to be hip with the kids, her "three bodies" ability is a way of getting into character, and the reference to Apollo is part of her lame excuse for going along with Junko's grudge. But if she is Hecate, the implications are pretty interesting. We might have all sorts of deities and figures from various religions all working under the same celestial bureaucracy, which opens up a lot of possibilities, as well as the question of which god is at the top of this hierarchy.

Or maybe each faith has its own bureaucracy, and there's a great story about how Hecate found a new job after the Olympian pantheon shut down, or got poached by a rival divine agency.

if Western youkai (ie. hobgoblins, since vampires apparently count as a type of oni) can exist, then so can Western gods.

Based on the interview in Alternative Facts, Hecatia doesn't work for the Ministry of Right and Wrong at all. Hell is essentially the home to countless independent groups and individuals, of which the Ministry is simply one (and happens to be trying to impose order on the whole thing, which seems futile). Specifically, they have no authority over Hecatia because she's strong enough to tell them to piss off.

The way I see it, her title of Goddess is more like the title of Overlord from Disgaea than any commentary on religion. She commands respect simply by being the strongest being around; no one can refuse her because she has the absolute power necessary to enforce her will. But she's not a god in the very specific Shinto sense we've been using before. She's more like a particularly powerful demon.

You know, this new version of hell is starting to sound like the old version of Makai. Powerful figures out of other mythologies, beings that describe themselves as gods without belonging to the local spiritual hierarchy... Now we just need a continuity hiccup and an older, more mature Clownpiece hanging around acting like she's always been in Gensokyo.

Still wonder what Hecate/Hecatia is doing in Hell to begin with. I know the Olympian pantheon is more or less defunct, but a patron of magicians and witches ought to be able to find work amongst the new age occult stuff that the kids these days enjoy, might even get a power boost or whatever from Harry Potter. Unless she's just done with mortals and wanting to hang out in a less mundane realm of existence.

I don't think she retired to Hell, it sounds like she was around for its beginnings. Back before it was "Hell" and just a neutral place where powerful beings hung out.

The bit about Makai...I'm starting to think that maybe Hecatia and Shinki are of the same "species". They don't belong in the human-youkai dichotomy of Gensokyo. They don't need human beliefs, either faith or fear, to exist. They're gods in the Western religion sense, not kami in Shinto.

This brings the question: How many more of them are there? Hecatia mentioned there are some other people, I assume she meant Zeus, Hades, Apollo, etc. But what about the likes of Bishamonten? As a Buddhist god, does he operate on faith like Kanako/Suwako/Aki sisters etc, or does he belong to the "god" species like Hecatia? Or does he operate in another separate manner? What about the Yama and the Shinigami?

Hecatia's introduction brings a lot of questions to the Touhou cosmology.

It does. The cosmology is Touhou is confusing and Hecatia complicates even more as the Moon has its own version of Hades/Hell.

We've known that Touhou has multiple hells for quite some time though. Of all the new information Lo LK brought to the table I'd say that was among the least surprising.

Why does the moon even need a Hell, it's not like anyone's dying up there. That'd be gross.

I say that, but Hecatia's hell is probably more of a generic Otherworld home to nasty entities than it is a soul processing center with a clear religious affiliation. A place presumably rich in magic so that... well, again, I'm seeing strong Makai parallels.

But wait, reading her profile more closely - "A mysterious god who governs the Hells of the moon, the Earth, and Otherworlds. She has a separate body in each of the three worlds, and can act independently with each of them." So Otherworlds like Makai have their own Hell, and that's one of Hecatia's stomping grounds? Not the Otherworld itself?

Bah, bet they all have their own Ethereal Planes and Planes of Shadow and such.

So... she was hanging out in a distinct plane connected to an Otherworld, but at some point later it got hellish and became a place of horrors inhabited by things like Clownpiece? And then Hecatia just rolled with it and started running this Hell distinct from the Hells of the moon, the Earth, Gensokyo, etc? Which she also lorded over because she has multiple bodies?

ZUN, please sit down and chart out your setting's equivalent of the Great Wheel for us, this is getting confusing.

That said, Hecatia focusing her attentions on Hell(s) instead of Earth seems to have coincided with her pantheon's decline. Maybe magic-rich realms like Makai can provide an alternative to faith for divine beings, but there's a catch involved that makes some gods prefer to sustain themselves the old-fashioned way in the mortal realm. 'cause otherwise, why would gods even bother trying to win over human worshipers?

Apollo at least gets a mentioned in Hecatia's profile, and the J-man got a shout-out of sorts from Seiga. B-Money might have an American Gods dealie where he's got a Hindu-Buddhist incarnation as Vaiśravaṇa in addition to his Japanese characterization, like how there's a different Jesus for different countries and cultures. But man, the doors are wide open now, who knows who might show up next game? Loki might visit, asking about his wand. Coyote and Tewi might start a world-shattering prank war. Horus might want to talk to Utsuho about when it is and is not appropriate to consume a sun.

And they will all be portrayed as girls with nice hats. Every last one of them.

Anyhoo, picdump time. I think because she's fairly new, a lot of Hecatia's stuff is pretty samey depictions of her in her profile pose. And a significant portion seems to be toying with her unique fashion sense, hence why there's two pools dedicated to her headgear and shirts, respectively.

There's so much of this pose
Hit the child post for the magazine cover version
One at a time?
Or all together?
Mefomefo times three
Surround sound
Probably not a fun fight
Different styles for different worlds
Rock the dragon
No one said the additional bodies had to be the same gender, right?
Don't tell the fanfic writers
Dream world background
Swirling chaos of limbo
Lounging between dimensions
I like her better hatless
Something going on here
Classical columns
With a mystical serpent
Now there's a goddess of magic and mystery
Who says her bodies have to be separate?
Whatever world she's representing here probably makes Geiger counters chatty
Ryuuchi's take is kinda beefy
The astronomical symbol tattoos are a nice touch (also, Juggalo Clownpiece scares me)
Uh oh
And then there were none
Final boss of the Black Omen, or gatekeeper boss before Chronopolis
A dark mosaic
koto inari seems to have taken to her
Eh, we were going to do it eventually
Nice halo
Are those the Americas on the moon orb?
About to fire the moon at you or something
She looks like she should be going "ufufufu"
Eeep.
A popular pairing, obviously enough
Comfort
Restraint
Back-to-back
Side-by-side
The fox and the... purple cosmic lamb, apparently
Friends sharing interests
"Stop being gay and release the moon people already"
Goddess and clown
Feed the clown
Cuddle the clown
Novelty nightlight
Selfie with clown
Modern family
Sakuya's always looking for an excuse
It's even worse when she meets Saiyans
I guess they're both red-headed EX-bosses?
ZUN, please
Coworkers, am I right?
This is Eiki's hell
Hecatia doesn't seem to go for her new outfit either
The nightmare continues
Maris's digging it, though
Now everyone's getting into it
A varied wardrobe
She's foreign and thousands of years old
Trouble with hats
Trouble with T-shirts
The setup...
Revenge
A step down
Even worse
Stop commenting on her fashion sense
Ice cream done right
Ice cream done wrong
Another type of brain freeze
Imposter
An adventure begins
About to attain her Phantasm form
How to keep a hell clown and a crazed spirit of vengeance entertained for hours (animated)

Huh, that was a lot more than I was expecting.

Hecatia Lapislazuli:

A powerful ruler of Hell. Three Hells, actually. She assisted Junko’s attempt to destroy the moon. She tries her best to look as chic as possible.

Seeing as Hecatia's Eiki's superior, I'm sure Eiki would be extremely formal around her. But Hecatia would probably tell her to loosen up and such. Given her fashion sense, that's pretty much bound to happen.

Three Hells, three bodies. ...Makes me wonder if she has three different monstrous forms for each hell...

edited 5th Jul '17 7:52:10 PM by Diamite

And I'm kinda wondering whether she has three bodies because that's what the Greeks thought, or whether she managed to take over hell after hell and gain enough power to clone herself, and that's the point she got incorporated into Classical mythology.

And if her and Junko's plan had succeeded and they'd driven off the Lunarians, would Hecatia get a fourth body since she would then rule Earth's hell, the moon's hell, the moon, and the Otherworld's hell? Or would that just be thematically inappropriate?

The number of Hecatias equal the number of realms conquered by her might.

Hecatia holds the Underworld in her hands. And she'll use her authority to party!

Superstar of Hell
Unknown Dimension
Unknown Terror
Scenic Hellscape
Dread Tour
Blue Moon
Hidden Party
What the Hell is Going On?
Whisper of Promise
Overlord of Hades

Oooh, what if she's not forming bodies from the magical potential of the realms she conquers, but taking over their former rulers? Watch out, Shinki!

It's not really time to move on to Lily White, since y'know, summer, but we'll move on to her in the near future. So, any final thoughts about this powerful outsider who has taken an interest in an isolated little demiplane?

I wonder what her relationship is to the Lunarians is? Since the Lunarians have their own version of Hades, I wonder what that is all about?

It's confusing. Obviously Hecatia is fine with helping Junko get revenge on the Loonies, but her plan to do that was more complex then go in with all three bodies a-blazin'. Which suggests that Hecatia is indeed more restrained than some infernal denizens, or powerful, but not that powerful.

Since the Lunarians 1) don't usually die and 2) aren't the moon's original inhabitants, I imagine the lunar hell is more closely linked to the moon bunnies. Maybe that's where bad buns go to get their sins purged and punished, if it's a Hell sort of hell, or maybe it's a hostile and otherworldly realm full of bunny-shaped supernatural beings, if it's a Makai sort of hell. Because I guess places just need weird realms of existence connected to them? It's some sort of cosmic rule, that for every mundane slice of reality, there's a weirder, more dangerous alternative connected to it? And probably a nicer, more relaxing heavenly version of it too.

I feel like there's more to Hecatia not going in directly to help kill the Lunarians beyond not being strong enough, considering ZUN DID say she's the strongest character in the series.

It could be maybe Hecatia's not ABLE to go to the moon directly.

Or there's the fact that the moon has an entire city full of beyond-godlike beings. Hecatia can beat any single Lunarian, but all of them?

I suppose no matter how strong you are, you can still be worn down by an army.

Or maybe personally conquering a place that isn't some manner of hell would ruin Hecatia's theme.

Well, let's leave the threefold goddess to her mysteries. Coming up will be Alice Margatroid, someone who once gave Shinmyoumaru a run for her money, and someone who just wanted to visit. But first, it's... entirely the wrong time of year for her, but anyway:

Lily White

Stages:

The Cherry Blossom Barrier from Above the Clouds
Cherry petals have been falling from above the clouds.
Does "Reishouden", the legendary place, really exist?
BGM: "The Capital City of Flowers in the Sky"^note The style is more Chinese than Japanese. A wonderful place above the clouds. As the true beginning of this game, stage 4 is far longer than the others. There's never been such a stratospheric (it's not that high) intrusion with violent yet sorrowful music, has there? While I composed it with "Journey to the West" in mind, it doesn't resemble that.

The Sakura-Colored Sea the Divine Beast Swims Through ~ Sea of Spring Pink
Evening Cherries at the Hakurei Shrine
BGM: "Swim Through a Sakura-Colored Sea"^note This is the stage 3 theme. The concept for this one is flying high in the night sky, where only the cherry blossoms are shining in the moonlight. Cherry blossoms always have a sense of fleetingness about them, and this time is no different.

Spellcard Motif: It's Spring!
Spellcard: HSiFS
Spring Sign "Surprise Spring"

Write-up:
An exuberant little sylph who lives to announce the coming of one particular season. The causation is a bit muddled, though - Lily does show up when winter transitions into spring, but her very presence can also cause flowers to revive and instantly bloom. At any rate, she's very dedicated to her role, no matter how much any rude interlopers try to stop her, and can get so worked up announcing spring has come that those around her might end up running for cover.

Other than that, though, Lily is mostly harmless. Most people consider sighting her during her big moment to be a good luck omen, and of course florists are particularly fond of her. Lily has been known to change her costume to fit in with the yama's appearance, which some fans have interpreted as an evil alter-ego or an entirely new character. But it's not like Lily White and Lily Black have ever been spotted at the same party or anything.

Relations

• "Lily Black" (yama cosplay or something more?)

See also the previous compendiums

edited 12th Jul '17 12:02:27 PM by Tacitus

I'm disappointed Lily hasn't gotten any dialogue in Fairy Wars or HSiFS, if only to confirm whether or not she's capable of saying more than "It's spring!" ...Which she couldn't have said in a game, come to think of it, so that has to be a fanon thing. Typical unimaginative fanon.

Have to say, she's cute in "Echoes in Front of the Temple." Though really everyone's cute in that.

I also wonder about Lily White, she isn't that fleshed out as a character and I wonder about her relationships with other characters.

Sunny was terrified of her.

So there's that, though it should be noted that Star and Luna were exchanging an unimpressed look.

If Lily is tapped into the power of an entire season, her power level ought to be up there, especially if it's the season in which the world seems to come back to life after going through the chill of winter. Yet her PCB profile says "Her ability is only a little stronger than minor enemies'," suggesting she's only as noteworthy as, say, the nameless fairy midboss in LLS' fourth stage. Though that's not the only confusion around Lily. Her profile only describes her as announcing spring, but in-game and in-comics, her very presence seems to dispel winter. Hard to imagine many characters pulling something like that, much less a midboss.

Wonder what Shiki's take on her is? Cirno got scolded for getting too big for her fairy britches, so what would she say about a fairy connected to the power of spring? Though the "Lily Black" phenomenon suggests that the yama might be aware of her and support her. Maybe it's okay for a fairy to be that strong if they get official backing from those powers that be? Could that be a career option for Cirno one day?

edited 17th Jul '17 5:25:20 PM by Tacitus