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The New New Touhou Character Alternate Interpretation Compendium

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GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#3051: Dec 13th 2015 at 7:37:58 PM

Are the Underground youkai apart of the mountain?

"Fan, a Mega Man character."
Tacitus Since: Jan, 2001
#3052: Dec 13th 2015 at 9:05:43 PM

Nah, all those satori and tsuchigumo and hashihime are sitting at the "freaks" table in the Great Metaphorical Youkai Cafeteria. Or I guess you could equate Youkai Mountain with a nob hill, an upper-class residential district too good to associate with your average youkai, to say nothing of the despised creatures of the underground.

This does indirectly raise an interesting point - when the oni moved underground, they didn't bother to recreate the social structure they'd managed for the past whatever centuries, they just kinda partied or went their separate ways. Wonder why? Do they consider Youkai Mountain to be a success or a one-time thing?

For that matter, what made Youkai Mountain possible in the first place, why haven't we heard of any similar youkai civilizations? If it was something that could only happen when the oni put their minds (and brawn) to it, why hasn't it fallen apart without them? Or is there something else to explain the mountain's success?

Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#3053: Dec 14th 2015 at 7:54:19 AM

I doubt the oni created the social structure in the first place. Most likely, the tengu created it placing the oni at the top. Which, incidentally, is also why the mountain's society seems unique among youkai. Tengu are defined as "the hierarchical youkai", and even the kappa are repeatedly said to be bad at working together (even though they try, they're just terrible at coordinating with each other).

edited 14th Dec '15 7:59:43 AM by Clarste

Durazno Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#3054: Dec 14th 2015 at 9:44:10 AM

Were the oni really doing the work of running a hierarchy, or were they just on top because nobody else could run them?

Lightblade Since: Jan, 2001
#3055: Dec 14th 2015 at 2:24:00 PM

Maybe they didn't recreate their society underground because the Underground already had a structure? This was when the Former Hell was still active, wasn't it?

Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#3056: Dec 14th 2015 at 2:49:56 PM

[up][up]I was assuming the latter. The tengu like to know their place relative to everyone around them, and realized they would have to be below the oni. The oni don't really care but certainly don't mind everyone else giving them some respect.

Tacitus Since: Jan, 2001
#3057: Dec 14th 2015 at 11:00:05 PM

That's a weird thing to have to deal with one morning - "hey, do you mind ruling us?"

This might explain Kanako's confidence/recklessness in relocated right to the top of the Mountain, at least. Probably figured that if deities were mightier than oni, then of course the tengu would accept the Moriya Temple. Y'know, once Kanako got enough faith - including faith from the tengu - to make her that powerful. "Hey, can you worship me for a bit so I become powerful enough to rule you?"

I doubt the oni created the social structure in the first place. Most likely, the tengu created it placing the oni at the top. Which, incidentally, is also why the mountain's society seems unique among youkai. Tengu are defined as "the hierarchical youkai", and even the kappa are repeatedly said to be bad at working together (even though they try, they're just terrible at coordinating with each other).

Huh, so it's not so much Youkai Mountain as it is Tengu Mountain with special guests the Kappa Mobs? Curiouser and curiouser.

Why the tengu? What about the big-nosed winged folk with a background as alternatively demons or kung-fu mystics makes them the only youkai to form such an advanced and stable society? Did they learn the ways of humans from all those years spent snooping as a "nimble information corps?" Or did they fall under another influence, like a local goddess or something?

Maybe they didn't recreate their society underground because the Underground already had a structure? This was when the Former Hell was still active, wasn't it?

It looks like some oni did work for the Powers That Be when that Hell was still active, probably torturing souls as kishin, 'cause y'know, horned demonic brutes. Then at some point that Hell was shut down, and surface oni started trickling into the underground. I imagine that the oni that didn't mind working for the heavenly bureaucracy continued their work as kishin in the new hell, while the rest were probably drawn to the absence of authority in the newly-abandoned hell. Or in other words, the oni who would have a use for a hierarchical society kept working for the yama in the New Hell, while the others preferred the anarchy of the Former Hell.

GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#3058: Dec 15th 2015 at 5:19:52 AM

That is a plausible explanation as the Youkai mountain seems oddly enough to be one of the most organized places in Gensokyo.

"Fan, a Mega Man character."
Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#3059: Dec 15th 2015 at 5:25:55 AM

Why the tengu? What about the big-nosed winged folk with a background as alternatively demons or kung-fu mystics makes them the only youkai to form such an advanced and stable society? Did they learn the ways of humans from all those years spent snooping as a "nimble information corps?" Or did they fall under another influence, like a local goddess or something?

The most famous oni was a bandit. The most famous kitsune was a manipulative courtesan. The most famous tengu was the Emperor of Japan. If all three of these represent aspects of human society, then the tengu are the ones who belong most to that part which most respects authority.

edited 15th Dec '15 5:28:07 AM by Clarste

Tacitus Since: Jan, 2001
#3060: Dec 15th 2015 at 9:56:49 PM

Or the part that abdicates their position of authority, becomes a monk, gets offended when their former royal court won't accept their writings, dies with a grudge, and transforms into a vengeful bird-demon. Thanks, Wikipedia. Sure learn the most interesting things during these Touhou discussions.

...Should we be worried about Aya now? I mean, she's already a bird-demon of sorts, but what if she becomes an angry undead double tengu because nobody reads her paper?

The Youkai mountain seems oddly enough to be one of the most organized places in Gensokyo.

I was gonna debate that until I decided I agreed with your phrasing. Like, Eientei is pretty orderly and well-run, Tewi shenanigans aside, and the human village operates amazingly well considering who once claimed to be the local princess. But Youkai Mountain is the most organized settlement in how it's got the tengu types divided into different occupations, and the hierarchy among the different youkai who live there.

Maybe that's another reason the oni got fed up and left, like a rowdy frat boy ditching his neat-freak roommate. Too much Law and not enough Chaos.

edited 15th Dec '15 9:57:12 PM by Tacitus

Tacitus Since: Jan, 2001
#3061: Dec 16th 2015 at 6:48:52 PM

So that's the Youkai Mountain, more or less. Up next will be Rika, followed by Unzan and his hitbox, and then some sort of bronze disc? But first,




The Bake-Danuki who Always Provides Surprises
Mamizou Futatsuiwa

Appearance:

Stage: Raise the Flag of Rebellion!
After Miko's revival, the power of the saint has grown too strong!
Now is the time to commence the youkai rebellion!
BGM: "Youkai Back Shrine Road"note 
Theme: "Futatsuiwa from Sado"note 
Updated Theme: "Futatsuiwa from Gensokyo"

Spellcard Motif: Transformations and Trickery
Sample Spellcards: TD, HM, ULiL, ISC
Transformation "Scrolls of Frolicking Animals," Transformation "Pseudo-Exorcism of the Stupid Shrine Maiden," "Wild Carpet," Transformation "Bunbuku Hot Soup Bathtub," Transformation "Youkai World Gate of One Hundred Demons," Transformation "Futatsuiwa Clan's Curse," "Belly-Drumming of Infinitely Infinite Tanuki," "If the Cuckoo Does Not Call, Wait For It to Cry," "Humans Are Nice!"

Write-up:
An old and tricksy tanuki. She had a good thing going on the island of Sado, where Mamizou coexisted peacefully with humans and even loaned them money at very reasonable rates, but her friend Nue Houjuu called her over to Gensokyo to help deal with a cabal of undead Taoists. Unfortunately it's a long flight from Sado, and Mamizou arrived too late to be the cavalry, but she's stuck around ever since.

On the one hand, Mamizou is a friendly old lady who considers herself a pro-youkai force and will take rookie youkai under her wing, but she still gets along well with humans and has been regularly spotted visiting the village in one form or another. On the other hand, she has a mischievous streak and likes to see people flustered and surprised, and is willing and able to manipulate others to increase her own power. She's evidently built up a whole pack of tanuki flunkies since arriving in Gensokyo, and has encouraged a naive young booklender to summon even more youkai for Mamizou to recruit. And as an experienced tanuki, Mamizou has amazing powers of illusion, which go beyond simple glamers to actually transform both her and her victims.

All said, Mamizou is both one-in-a-million and a million-in-one, and definitely a youkai to watch. At the very least you're in for a show.

Relations

  • Nue Houjuu (friend)
  • Byakuren Hijiri and the Myouren Temple crew (former housemates)
  • Hata no Kokoro (padawan)
  • Kosuzu Motoori (fangirl)

See also the previous compendium.

Diamite Rainy Echoes Since: Jul, 2013
Rainy Echoes
#3062: Dec 17th 2015 at 8:43:24 PM

Mamizou Futatsuiwa:

A bakedanuki who hails from the world outside Gensokyo. Very sage and cunning.

Mami received a call from Nue, imploring her to come to Gensokyo to stop the Taoist menace in its hot-piping tracks. She left her humble Arcadia without a moment's pause, in order to help out an old friend in need...!

...Turns out, she was late to the party. She must've felt a little bummed. But hey, mischief managed. Well, time for her to head home. Except she's sticking around in Gensokyo. Hm, wonder why? It must have something that's keeping her interested. Or maybe she's gathering many tanuki and other youkai so that she could bring them to her home...? Heh, such pointless ramblings.

...Speaking of Arcadia, Sado's human population sure is spiritually aware. Unlike the world at large, they can see youkai perfectly fine. Bet visitors won't see the big picture.

Hmmmm...I do wonder how Nue and Mami met each other. Also, she jumped at the call when the Taoist faction was making a comeback. Maybe Mami knows of the skullduggery that went on behind the scenes? That Miko would be a major calamity to all youkaikind? Or maybe she just responded because it was an interesting opportunity to broaden her already expansive connections.

Heh, Mami being a friendly neighbourhood gangsta type makes me think of Nurarihyon no Mago.

Tacitus Since: Jan, 2001
#3063: Dec 18th 2015 at 6:20:51 PM

Except she's sticking around in Gensokyo. Hm, wonder why? It must have something that's keeping her interested. Or maybe she's gathering many tanuki and other youkai so that she could bring them to her home...? Heh, such pointless ramblings.

I wouldn't say pointless, it'd be nice to know what Mamizou is up to and hopefully we'll learn someday. Can't have too many enigmatic chessmasters in the cast, after all.

The idea that she's recruiting a lot of youkai to take back to Sado with her is intriguing, and would suggest that 1) she thinks such an influx of youkai would be viable even without a Great Hakurei Boundary, and 2) she wants more control over who gets in. Sado is a closed community with standards, thank you very much.

Another option would be that she's pulling a Suwako, and felt revitalized by the chance to start building a new power base in a land like Gensokyo. A third would be that the local tanuki were so excited to meet a legend like Mamizou that they begged her to stay and lead them into belly-drumming glory. A fourth would be that flying from Sado was a hell of a trip, she's in no hurry to make it again, and until she builds up the energy to do so she'll get her kicks while she can.

Hmmmm...I do wonder how Nue and Mami met each other.

Some ancient shapeshifter showdown, surely.

Also, she jumped at the call when the Taoist faction was making a comeback. Maybe Mami knows of the skullduggery that went on behind the scenes? That Miko would be a major calamity to all youkaikind? Or maybe she just responded because it was an interesting opportunity to broaden her already expansive connections.

I dunno, my understanding is that Miko was a bigger threat to Byakuren than she was to youkai. Like, the crown prince wouldn't share the heretic's pro-youkai platform, but wouldn't be any more an enemy to supernatural critters than any given human. Then again, it was Nue who sent the message, so maybe she embellished the situation a bit. And I do like the idea that the mob boss knows something about the politician that the rest of us don't...

Whatever reason she came to Gensokyo, reading the script for the battle with Youmu in particular makes it sound like Mamizou is intrigued by a place with "youkai temples" and the like and decided to join this community. In the others, she mostly sounds tired, and old.

Hmm. Maybe Mamizou is trying to prove something to herself, show that she still has the cunning to start up and run an outfit instead of resting on her laurels in Sado.

edited 18th Dec '15 6:21:48 PM by Tacitus

Tacitus Since: Jan, 2001
#3064: Dec 21st 2015 at 4:22:34 PM

So hey, what's the deal with Mamizou's ability? Like in Symposium of Post-Mysticism it's explicitly pointed out that she can change something's form but not function, so she could make a dog look like a bird but it wouldn't be able to fly. Yet in the fighting games she can turn into a statue for a strong downward attack, she turned into a freakin' bonfire that one time to provide light, and when she turns her opponent into an animal they're helpless for the duration.

Did Akyuu get things wrong, again? Was Mamizou keeping her true powers hidden for an emergency? Or has her transformative ability increased since coming to Gensokyo?

And why did she join the MIB for Urban Legend in Limbo? I'm not complaining about how she looks in the outfit, I just can't make the connection between aliens and Ms. Two Stones here.

rmctagg09 The Wanderer from Brooklyn, NY (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
The Wanderer
#3065: Dec 21st 2015 at 11:19:13 PM

Mamizou does seem like the type to keep the full range of her abilities under wraps.

Hugging a Vanillite will give you frostbite.
Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#3066: Dec 21st 2015 at 11:35:17 PM

Smoke and mirrors. What's the point is having an ability like that if you're not creative with it?

GM_3826 Since: May, 2014 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
#3067: Dec 22nd 2015 at 5:00:59 AM

Mamizou Futatsuiwa: Youkai Magician?

edited 22nd Dec '15 5:01:07 AM by GM_3826

TrueShadow1 Since: Dec, 2012
#3068: Dec 22nd 2015 at 6:05:09 AM

Found the origin of Mamizou's character: Danzaburou-danuki.

  • Sado Island
  • Lends money to humans
  • Leader of tanuki
  • Deified as "Futatsuiwa Daimyouji "

I'm 99.99% sure Mamizou is supposed to be this character.

Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#3069: Dec 22nd 2015 at 7:08:53 AM

Also hates foxes, apparently. Seems to match up.

Tacitus Since: Jan, 2001
#3070: Dec 23rd 2015 at 8:53:10 PM

If you keep reading the stories on that article, it sounds like ol' Danzaburou met his match at one point and stopped trying to trick humans. Evidently Mamizou doesn't follow the legend that closely. Or maybe she figures new home, fresh start.

Also, another site with descriptions of the tanuki-kitsune rivalry had another story about a man who ended up destroying a troublesome tanuki... on behalf of a magical white snake, whose children were being preyed upon by the tanuki.

It's obviously not the same tanuki as the boss of Sado, but it'd be interesting to work the story into some Mamizou-Moriya interactions. Like if Kanako objects to Mamizou's treatment of potential customers, or Suwako and the mishaguji don't take kindly to a competing protection racket. A mob war, in other words. Of course, if anyone would have the cojones to challenge the Moriya mafia, it'd be the outfit from Sado.

Holiday picdump time! I mean in terms of timing, not subject matter.

Hmm?
Stylish
Butterfly on boot
Classy
Boozing
Bubbly
A vice in each fist
Reflective puffs
I just realized she might have picked up the bells after meeting Kosuzu
Guess this is what they mean by a smoking room
Finally, a courtesy loincloth
Who is this woman, and what is she doing in my Mamizou picdump?
Indeterminate age
Her disguise is slipping just a bit
A reference to that story about the daimyo's procession?
Visiting a shrine?
Village scene
I see the palanquin ship has undergone some renovations
Lady of the tanuki
Head of the Night Parade
Duping humans (like a boss)
Sit on a grave (like a boss)
Smoke a pipe (like a boss)
You can either pray to the guy on the left or take out a loan from the lady on the right
Upside-daisie
Pretty sure this is a spellcard tribute
This definitely is
She can be feisty when she wants to be
If not stylishly aggressive
All we are is leaves in the wind
She's more or less a shapeshifting monster
That potentially-explosive mixture of booze breath and secondhand smoke
Piggyback ride
Oh, this will end badly
Welp
A giant racoon and some kind of pink gremlin
When your animal companions don't get along
Taking the little one out for a snack run
Teaching Nue that sometimes a "disguise" means not hiding yourself at all
Popular new addition to the temple
I would love to know the context for this meeting, and why Yuuka seems so pleased
Happy lil' bell girl
Nue is fine with this
Reimu is less so
Sassy granny
Granny gets cuddles
Granny cuddles self
A veritable mountain of Mamizou
Hell of a transformation
Everything you've been told is a lie
The legion on the march

Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#3071: Dec 24th 2015 at 4:07:10 PM

on behalf of a magical white snake, whose children were being preyed upon by the tanuki.

It's obviously not the same tanuki as the boss of Sado, but it'd be interesting to work the story into some Mamizou-Moriya interactions.

"Magical white snake" makes me think of that Wicked Dragon, actually. Marisa even mentioned in that chapter that white snakes were magically powerful. Kanako doesn't have anything in particular to do with white snakes, but the Mishaguji Suwako controls are white, so I guess that's something.

Antimatter625 Baring hearts for years from my secret place Since: Jan, 2012
Baring hearts for years
#3072: Dec 26th 2015 at 1:37:10 AM

Whew... Well, I have a few things to say about the people I've missed (Koakuma to now) but I can save that for a review.

RE: Mamizou

Sado seems like an interesting plot point. Youkai who've forgotten their identity as such and now live as just... people. 'Becoming the mask' to a T. Meanwhile Their boss still remembers... honestly, she was probably just fine with getting out of there. Probably got boring. Or she didn't want to see her people after they'd lost who they were or anything. An unpleasant reminder.

If you keep reading the stories on that article, it sounds like ol' Danzaburou met his match at one point and stopped trying to trick humans. Evidently Mamizou doesn't follow the legend that closely.

Headcanon: Nue was that match. And possibly vice versa.

Just what is Mamizou Scheming...? I know I had a thought on this awhile ago, but I just can't remember what it was.

edited 26th Dec '15 2:01:33 AM by Antimatter625

I write some fanfiction. Satori's Tale is done... but I'm not.
Tacitus Since: Jan, 2001
#3073: Dec 26th 2015 at 8:30:03 PM

Maybe I should unilaterally declare an end-of-year review period before moving on to Rika, since a few people have asked about them or expressed a desire to discuss old characters, but I've never gotten much of a response when trying to put the issue to a vote.

Sado seems like an interesting plot point. Youkai who've forgotten their identity as such and now live as just... people. 'Becoming the mask' to a T. Meanwhile Their boss still remembers... honestly, she was probably just fine with getting out of there. Probably got boring. Or she didn't want to see her people after they'd lost who they were or anything. An unpleasant reminder.

Maybe she views Gensokyo as a chance to do it right. There probably aren't many opportunities for tanuki in the outside world to drop the human facade and run around as a mystical critter, which may contribute to them getting stuck in human form. Here Mamizou can build a strong tanuki community without sacrificing their identity.

Headcanon: Nue was that match. And possibly vice versa.

Possible, but in the story the person who saw through Danzaburou's last disguise was a young peasant with an interest in watersports, and Nue's disguises tend to be weirder than that.

Just what is Mamizou Scheming...?

Hard to say, all we've seen her do is manipulate Kosuzu into creating more recruits for the Night Parade (which the tanuki command because..?) and take youkai like Kotoro and Seija under her wing, or in other words accumulate power.

Now, some characters might want to gather power for the sake of having power, but that's rather boring, and most people have a goal in mind that they need the power to get. So what could Mamizou do with a bunch of animate objects and assorted youkai allies that she couldn't do on her own? Is she looking to get into a fight with someone, and if so, who? Or is she trying to defend someone and doesn't trust any of Gensokyo's traditional peacekeepers to do the job?

Maybe Mamizou is still serious about opposing Miko and views the crown prince as a threat to youkai. Maybe she's trying to subtly claim the Human Village and control it like she and her kind rule(d?) Sado, and needs an army to defend it if any rival youkai groups object to this power play. Or maybe she foresees Gensokyo's status quo changing in the near future and wants to look after her interests.

As an aside, evidently Sado is also known as a refuge for crested ibises, so let's add Tokiko as a Mamizou ally, and perhaps a crack pairing as well.

WodashGSJ Since: Aug, 2014
#3074: Dec 26th 2015 at 10:04:53 PM

The line about fox-tanuki conflict always suggested to me that Mamizou feels she needs a power base sufficient to protect her people from Ran if necessary, and she probably would not expect any traditional incident solver to help her if it came to that.

Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#3075: Dec 27th 2015 at 9:58:22 AM

I don't think Ran is particularly relevant here, despite the obvious connections. Ran's basically given up everything to serve Yukari, so I wouldn't expect her to be part of any hypothetical fox factions. Mamizou's concern would be more the generic transforming foxes that you see pop up every so often in the manga. Since they're competing with the tanuki on the same turf.


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