The New New Touhou Character Alternate Interpretation Compendium

I suppose you might be right, Akyuu would have an interesting discussion to say the least as Kagerou is human and yet she affected by the mallet. Perhaps she could be suffering an identity crisis?

"Am I am woman cursed to become a wolf for a few days each month, or a wolf trapped in a human's body for most of her life?"

I suppose it's possible. I don't think we know for sure whether Kagerou was born with her condition or picked it up one night after a random encounter, but I usually associate werewolf-related angst with situations were the person was afflicted with lycanthropy. Since Kagerou seems pretty chill about it and normally in full control of herself while wolfing, she either picked it up quickly or has had her whole life to come to terms with the situation.

So my guess is that her identity is Kagerou, a woman who on some nights has a bad hair day. And feels like she needs to be wearing extra bras.

edited 18th Jul '15 8:35:42 PM by Tacitus

It's also possible that the simple fact of "hey, you, uh, appear to be a youkai" could shake someone, even if the manifestations of their youkai-ness are easily managed.

Well, let's give Kagerou a round of applause as she goes off to get a new hairbrush. Further down the pipeline are the perfect and elegant maid, a youkai with a soul as red as a ground cherry, and the sleeping terror herself, Yuuka Kazami!

But speaking of sinister plant life...

The Saigyou Ayakashi

Appearance:

Stage: A Maiden's Remains in the Other World
Loathing this unclean world
Seeking rebirth in the Pure Land
Please offer cherry blossoms to my deceased body
If someone is willing to mourn my death
BGM: Ultimate Truth
Theme: "Bloom Nobly, Ink-Black Cherry Blossoms ~ Border of Life"

Write-up:
Sometimes said to be the evilest thing in all of Touhou (though we can and should debate this), the Saigyou Ayakashi is the largest and most beautiful cherry tree in all the Netherworld. Or rather it would be were it allowed to bloom.

Over a thousand years ago, the tree's beauty lured people to rest beneath its branches, only to make that sleep permanent when the tree then drained their souls. Ancient heroes created a seal to keep the tree from blooming, a seal made with the spirit of a girl, and then the Saigyou Ayakashi passed into legend.

Only the oldest spirits of the Netherworld can remember what it looked like in its glory days, and even the ghostly princess who owns the garden it stands in was unaware of the story behind it until she happened upon an old record. The name of the girl whose soul sealed this demon tree has similarly been lost to history.

Relationships:

• Yuyuko Saigyouji (neither can live while the other is... dead?)
• Youmu Konpaku (gardener)
• Youki Konpaku (former gardener)

edited 19th Jul '15 6:34:28 PM by Tacitus

I wonder what the tree was planning on doing once it was 'free' from Yuyuko?

Trees don't plan. They just grow. Presumably its growth is harmful to those around it.

It's an evil tree...I forget, why were we discussing this again?

Well, we did say that we would observe most of the cahracters in Gensokyo.

The Saigyou Ayakashi tree maybe evil but it is still a tree.

edited 19th Jul '15 9:58:03 PM by GAP

My own little (that I'm pretty sure I've already mentioned, but meh) is that Yuyuko Saigyouji as we know her is the Saigyou Ayakashi. Possibly a fusion between her soul and the tree. See, it's totally the reason her hair turned pink. And why she can't remember her past life (because its not hers). And why she wanted to see the tree bloom so much/resurrect the person beneath it (to break the seal)

Also, possibly why her death powers are more under control now but weren't when she was alive (Being controlled by Yuyuko's seal over the Ayakashi, and it's the Ayakashi whose death powers we're seeing as Yuyuko's; Yuyuko's herself are effectively restraining the Ayakashi).

It also casts an interesting light in the relationship with Yukari.

Also, it is a youkai tree... it probably wouldn't be expected to be at the level of a tree in all regards. Compare Chen/Ran, who though definitely a cat/fox, is also definitely more than just a cat/fox. I suspect a youkai tree would be lethargic and think in the long term, and have trouble connecting with or communicating with such alien things as people.

Basically, it'd be a lot like Yuyuko is. See above .

Also, I find it amusing that a cherry tree (The prototypical symbol of transience) is so deeply linked to (or is) the Eternal Princess of the Netherworld.

I was thinking more along the lines of that horrifying youkai rabbit. from the audio dramas.

...How many times have I brought that up, by now?

Interesting. Of course, from there you could kinda take away the tree's "only truly evil thing in Gensoukyou" status, kinda go the Ender's Game Buggers route: Humans were so alien to the Saigyou Ayakashi that it didn't really perceive them as sentient. It fed itself on souls in much the same way a human might feed itself on wheat, because it didn't—or even couldn't—see something as fleeting as a human as being particularly valuable.

First I've heard of it. Youkai rabbit?

edited 20th Jul '15 9:49:29 AM by Ernie

It's in the 9th section of Changeability of Strange Dream.

"Ahh! After a thousand years I'm free! It's time to - wait everyone here is already dead."

Hang on, Evil Tree absorbs souls. So being in the Netherworld would be like sealing it in the middle of a buffet. Which come to think of it is a terrible idea, what the hell, ancient heroes?

And then what would it do with the souls? Grow until it took up the whole dimension as the Netherworld Tree? Take over an afterlife? What would that do to the souls absorbed by it? What happened to the souls is already absorbed?

And why couldn't some heroic lumberjack solve this problem without involving a seal?

My own little (that I'm pretty sure I've already mentioned, but meh) is that Yuyuko Saigyouji as we know her is the Saigyou Ayakashi. Possibly a fusion between her soul and the tree. See, it's totally the reason her hair turned pink.

Still a theory I like a lot. Don't forget the gluttony!

But if we interpret the Yuyuko we know as a ghost whose had the tree rub off on her to some extent, then might the modern Saigyou Ayakashi be a tree with a bit of Yuyuko about her? A tree that might feel remorseful and hesitant about her powers, and would only playfully attempt to kill someone immune to its attacks? A tree that... gets Youmu to do all the hard work?

And since they can take a human form, why can't this tree?

In case anyone's wondering, yes, there's Rule 34 of an anthropomorphized evil cherry tree.

Could go the Tolkien route, either Treebeard or Old Man Willow. Something with a lot of inertia, and not something you want to get riled up.

And hey, its first victim took a nap under it of its own volition, then inspired a lot of imitators. Can't really blame it for making the most of its new food source.

edited 20th Jul '15 7:00:15 PM by Tacitus

If the Saigyou Ayakashi tree can steal souls, then why seal it in the netherworld at all instead of just burning it? I know Yuytuko wouldn't exist......wait, what if the Yuyuko we know isn't the girl who hanged herslef but a fusion of the girl and the tree together?

I'd say this is a pretty good argument no matter how you approach the topic of the tree. As Clarste said, trees don't really plan. Of course, the tree being a youkai complicates matters.

I mean, I don't really think most youkai are exactly sadistic. Kappa extract shirikodama because them's good eats more than because getting them involves killing someone. It may be that killing someone is the important part of the sustenance derived from that and Kappa don't really realize that, but maybe not.

It's really nothing more than 'they're hungry and want to eat, and humans are their food source.' Whether they eat people literally or more figuratively feed off their fear, I don't generally put malice behind their actions. Just nature. A lot of youkai are as evil as carnivorous animals that prey upon humans. Which is to say, generally not.

Of course, ghosts and vengeful spirits and such exist. You know, beings for whom their nature is malice. They could perhaps be called evil. And of course even the not-evil ones are still dangerous. Consider European depictions of fae, for instance. Great folks, but seriously, don't hang out with them.

I guess I've been talking about youkai in general because what a youkai is defines most of what we could presume the Saigyou Ayakashi to be. Since we don't have any other plant youkai to compare it with, we have to guess its motivations and such based mostly just on 'it's a youkai.' So 'what's a youkai, exactly' becomes much more relevant.

It's been mentioned elsewhere (gunshot raccoon-looking critters in WAHH, and IIRC the wolf near the end of OSP) that once an animal tastes human blood, it's on the way to becoming a youkai, and it's very difficult to change that destiny. And the Saigyou Ayakashi shows that this is also true for plants partaking of human blood.

Exactly. Though I suspect the human form here would be more like a projection, akin to Kogasa.

Exactly. I mean, when people start throwing themselves into your waiting maw, is it so strange you'd acquire a taste after a while?

If plants become youkai just from deriving sustenance from humans, this implies bad things about every cemetery ever. I think there have to be some extra complicating factors, otherwise every time someone gets buried you generate a few dozen youkai near their grave.

From the Saigyou Ayakashi I think the separating factor is belief, as with most other youkai. If people had never blamed the tree for the deaths, would it have just stayed a normal tree?

edited 21st Jul '15 2:33:27 AM by WodashGSJ

Probably, though I should point out most people don't die in a cemetary. The Saigyou Ayakashi wasn't just a grave site (And honestly, I suspect a lot of the victims were moved away after dying.), it marked a place to die.

I do wonder now if even animals would become youkai if they ate just a dead human body they found. I would assume not.

So I guess the important thing about the Saigyou Ayakashi is that it's not just a plant that fed on people... it's a plant that killed them. At the very least, it bore witness to many, many deaths.

Yeah, I'm not sure if I like the fusion or the 'Yuyuko IS the identity confused tree' view more. They're both really interesting, and actually change not only how one views Yuyuko, but also Yukari.

If 'Yuyuko' is just the tree, then Yukari is presumably friends with her because that tree just did a really awesome job. I mean, getting instated in the Ministry's good books despite being a bloodthirsty tree? Pretty cool.

But if it's a fusion, then Yukari's perhaps got a case of hte clingies for the Yuyuko-that-was, and becomes a much more tragic figure, being unable to let go that the friend she knew is kinda gone... but kinda not...

Though actually I suppose Yukari could be tragic if the tree were just 'Yuyuko', too. And Yukari just wonders why her good old friend can't seem to remember anything...

And keeping it from being able to eat... Talk about eternal punishment. Everything it wants, just out of reach, forever.

I suspect the idea behind the ritual was more like "Well, it'll make it not be -here-."

I also suspect simple lumberjacking/burning was tried. Probably the tree wouldn't die so easily (youkai being abnormally resistant to damage, after all). Or maybe no one was brave enough to go and do it. So they sent Yuyuko to go do it because they wanted her gone too and hey, 1 stone, 2 bushes, one hand... something.

Problem with a predatory tree is that, well, it's a big stationary object. It relies on its beauty and reputation to attract prey, and once someone notices that nobody's returning from those flower viewing parties, there goes its food supply.

But what if it had a lure? Something innocuous or seemingly harmless, or maybe something almost as captivating and beautiful as its famous blossoms? A way to entice prey to come closer and stretch out in the shade?

A practical purpose for the Saigyou Ayakashi personification, is what I'm getting at.

Yeah, but I don't think it's due to any traits of the blood they're consuming. Youkai are by definition critters that mankind fears and has an antagonistic relationship with. We hear about a tiger or whatever that's made a human kill, we get afraid and what to take it down before it kills us. And to make that kill in the first place, an animal has to be a little more aggressive and a little more cunning than your average beast.

I wanna see youkai based on the Tsavo man-eaters and Gustave now.

One of the FS chapters was also about a snake that ate a human and became a youkai. It was sort of implied to be from the news magazine/tabloid that Kosuzu had been reading, about a snake large enough to swallow someone whole.

I think Gustave would definitely qualify.

edited 22nd Jul '15 6:11:03 PM by Clarste

I'm going to shamelessly co-opt the angler-fish idea into my idea that it just didn't get what humans were; the current Yuyuko was made as a lure, the tree essentially copying the girl that had died to bind it. Problem was, the copy was autonamous—it had to be—and the tree actually made a very good copy. It had made a human ghost that wanted to revive the tree, but humans can learn. Yuyuko learned enough to decide against reviving the tree, and so there it sits. Might be interesting if the tree could also learn from its puppet.

That is actually plausible.

She could even still be the original Yuyuko, just reconstituted and manipulated by the tree. It depends on how creative the tree is, doesn't it?

Though the idea of a being that doesn't quite understand what humans are managing to make convincing copies of humans actually makes me think of the aliens from Yukikaze.

edited 23rd Jul '15 12:58:28 PM by Durazno

Let it be known for the record that there is a theory that the tree itself has no powers, the legends are just conflating it with Yuyuko's out-of-control-during-life powers. The tree was "sealed" by her death, but of course that's identical to her own powers not working after death. Reviving her is the same as reviving the tree. In other words, the tree is merely symbolic of Yuyuko's power over death.

edited 23rd Jul '15 1:50:24 PM by Clarste

I really like that, though her power continues to work despite her death. I suppose it's also possible that being a ghost would give her a better understanding of it, and the trees death is not tied to her dying so much as her learning how to stop accidentally killing.

Ah, so sealing it is... a sort of... gaining control over it.

It's kinda funny, because like... the legends that made it a youkai did that plenty well. Of course, pretty ladies are a pretty standard lure so makes sense. The idea of 'dangerous/deadly beauty' certainly fits the Saigyou Ayakashi to a t... That it's a tree is kind of an interesting spin on the idea of the deadly beautiful lure...

I mean, see also: sirens (well, their song, anyway), succubi, and a dozen other things. Beauty is dangerous.