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tricksterson Never Trust from Behind you with an icepick Since: Apr, 2009 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Never Trust
#1: Oct 30th 2013 at 1:47:19 PM

First of all let me say I intend this primarily as a thought experiment. While it's possible I consider the chances of a peaceful breakup of the United States to be remote. As for the prospect of a violent breakup, in reality red, blue and purple segments of the population are so mixed together within every state that the Us wouldn't divide, it would atomize and the resulting conflict would make the first Civil War look like a barn dance.

That being said, my own vision for a divided America is based on a far more complicated form of the Jesusland Mapbecause of course things are more complicated than it shows.

Starting with the Northeast, because that's where I live I figure, New England, New York, New Jersey, Delaware, Maryland, DC) and maybe Pennsylvania would either form a Northeastern Republic or join Canada.

Pennsylvania (maybe), Ohio, Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin and Iowa, as purple states, would form the Great lakes Republic. Yeah I know Iowa isn't on the Great Lakes but the rest are. Indiana is seriously red so it would be part of the next and biggest part of the former USA, The Christian States of America.

This would, with exceptions to be mentioned afterwards, consist of the former Confederate States, Missouri, Indiana, Oklahoma, Kentucky Arizona, Wyoming, Utah, the Dakotas, Idaho, Montana, Kansas, Nebraska and, maybe, Colorado.

The exceptions mentioned would be northern Virginia (as in north of the Rappahanock, where to this day is where you'll see the signs welcoming you to Virginia (becuase that's where the Confederacy's effective control began in the Civil War), which I figure would go where ever the Northeast went, and the very blue counties of Dade and Broward in Florida which are culturally more Caribbean than Dixie anyway.

New Mexico is a purple state, as is to a lesser extent, Colorado, surrounded by red so I figure that either they would huddle together for protection or Colorado would join the CSA and New Mexico, along with Southern California and maybe southwestern Texas would go back where they came from, namely Mexico.

Which leaves Washington, Oregon and northern California, which I figure would either form their own country or, like the northeast join Canada. Alaska and Hawaii of course would go independent as Alaska is too red for Canada.

So there you have my ideas. Feel free to criticize and/or pitch your own. Feel free also to speculate on how the various groups would fare.

Trump delenda est
BestOf FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC! from Finland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
#2: Oct 30th 2013 at 2:11:24 PM

First of all, if this thread is to thrive I must remind people that things like this are meant to be fun, so don't go flaming each other. Feel free to comment on each others' ideas, but don't be uncivil about it.

Also, I think this thread might be more appropriate for World Building, but it could work in OTC so I'm not moving it until I get some feedback from potential participants of this thread.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
ohsointocats from The Sand Wastes Since: Oct, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#3: Oct 30th 2013 at 2:44:07 PM

You missed at least one state.

kkhohoho (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#4: Oct 30th 2013 at 3:17:46 PM

[up]Yeah. What about Minnesota? (Where I happen to live, by the way...

BestOf FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC! from Finland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
#5: Oct 30th 2013 at 3:23:17 PM

Hawaii, as well.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#6: Oct 30th 2013 at 3:24:44 PM

As a native Coloradan, I vote for huddling together. I have no interest to join the Christian States of America. tongue

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
BestOf FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC! from Finland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
#7: Oct 30th 2013 at 3:28:26 PM

I must say that if I saw the name "Christian States of America" suggested seriously I would find it very amusing. The people proposing it would probably hold the founders of the US in rather high regard, and obviously something like the "Christian States of America," both as a term and as a concept, would have been disgusting to the people who actually wrote the founding documents of the real-life USA.

That's not to say that it could never happen, though - there are plenty of people who know so little about US history as to think that the country was founded with the idea that it'd be all about religion.

edited 30th Oct '13 3:28:37 PM by BestOf

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#8: Oct 30th 2013 at 3:40:17 PM

Just from what I know of the makeup of the area, Western Penn and Western NY are very geographically and culturally similar: rural with some small towns and cities, a bit depressed economically from the collapse of the Rust Belt (which includes Buffalo along with cities like Detroit and Pittsburg) and other big employers either down or on the ropes (Rochester lost Kodak a while ago when it folded), a bit more purple than blue. Eastern NY is more densely populated, more influenced by NYC and New England, has a growing hub of high tech industry around the Albany area. I'm not sure about Eastern PA so much.

[up]Like the Columbia of Bioshock Infinite?

edited 30th Oct '13 3:41:23 PM by Elle

Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#9: Oct 30th 2013 at 3:41:29 PM

Well, we did warn you you hadn't a hope of governing the continent without the Mother Country and the Crown, so if the USA collapses we'll just give you a pat on the head to say well done for a good run and install a new governor in Cornwallistown (formerly Washington DC). tongue

Schild und Schwert der Partei
Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#10: Oct 30th 2013 at 3:45:48 PM

and New Mexico, along with Southern California and maybe southwestern Texas would go back where they came from, namely Mexico.

Noooooo way.

Elle Since: Jan, 2001
#11: Oct 30th 2013 at 3:46:20 PM

While it's fun to joke about Britain coming back to rule, the days of the British Empire are long over and I don't think they would actually want to take us back, other than any territory that decided to latch onto Canada.

johnnyfog Actual Wrestling Legend from the Zocalo Since: Apr, 2010 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Actual Wrestling Legend
#12: Oct 30th 2013 at 4:07:40 PM

This is literally Dr. Loveless' plan from Wild Wild West.

I'm a skeptical squirrel
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#13: Oct 30th 2013 at 4:12:48 PM

[up][up]If the Brits would take you back you'd be in the EU, I think...by association at least.

edited 30th Oct '13 4:13:18 PM by 3of4

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DeviantBraeburn Wandering Jew from Dysfunctional California Since: Aug, 2012
Wandering Jew
#14: Oct 30th 2013 at 4:20:21 PM

Cuba will invade Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands.

Everything is Possible. But some things are more Probable than others. JEBAGEDDON 2016
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#15: Oct 30th 2013 at 4:28:42 PM

Depends on the Brit. Some Brits are like, "LOL, no, you can fix your own mess, thanks. Bailing you out didn't go so well for us last time." Then there are other Brits who are steepling their fingers and going, "Yes. It's only a matter of time before the colonies realize they need us."

And then others just don't give a f*ck.

edited 30th Oct '13 4:28:53 PM by TobiasDrake

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Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#16: Oct 30th 2013 at 4:30:27 PM

Yeah, I was kidding. America has guns and no free healthcare. We wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. Let the Canadians sort it out.

Schild und Schwert der Partei
Nohbody "In distress", my ass. from Somewhere in Dixie Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
"In distress", my ass.
#17: Oct 30th 2013 at 4:46:55 PM

The Brits have NIH, though, so y'all don't exactly come off squeaky-clean either. tongue

/offtopic

As for the actual thread topic, the assumption in just about any hypothetical break-up of the US that I've seen about one segment (usually the SE US, with a sprinkling of Utahs thanks to that state being a Mormon stronghold) will have country that not only is based on some flavor of fundamentalist Christianity but will have a blatantly religious name (such as "Jesusland" or "Christian States of America") has always bugged the hell (*ahem*) out of me. Likewise the assumption that it will become some kind of Christian version of Afghanistan under the Taliban.

Are so many really so blinded by bias or outright bigotry as to not realize that an area being "strongly Christian" doesn't mean a) all Christians get along with one another, b) that everyone won't suddenly forget "render under Caesar what is Caesar's, and render unto God what is God's" (KJV phrasing, IIRC), or c) that fundamentalism is not the only flavor of Christianity?

All your safe space are belong to Trump
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#18: Oct 30th 2013 at 4:52:38 PM

[up]

What's NIH?

That's a good point about fundamentalist Christianity, though it is important to note A: that political turmoil often leads to extremism and B: extremists are usually best placed to take advantage of political turmoil, so the crazier sects like Reconstructionists and Dominionists could well make themselves a nuisance in a post-collapse America.

Though I imagine the Sinaloa cartel might give them a hell of a run for their money if it really came to that...

Schild und Schwert der Partei
Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#19: Oct 30th 2013 at 4:54:27 PM

Yeah, I was kidding. America has guns and no free healthcare. We wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. Let the Canadians sort it out.

Keep your barge pole, I like the deal we're getting.

^

The SEALS based out of Coronado might have a thing or two to say about that... And if we're wise we would let them head up any sort of pacific southwest military organization we assembled. A no holds barred campaign against the Cartels ran by the SEAL teams there would be.. interesting. No LOAC or ROE to speak of would level that playing field a lot.

edited 30th Oct '13 4:55:44 PM by Barkey

Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#20: Oct 30th 2013 at 5:02:41 PM

My first reaction to this sort of thing is always "Why is religion always presumed to be the main factor affecting which states band together?"

My second is always, "Why the presumption that states will remain intact with their current borders?"

Just looking at one state, Illinois, there's one huge metropolitan area (Chicago and the Greater Metropolitan Chicago Area — and incidentally, that includes a swath of Wisconsin along the Lake Michigan shore up to Milwaukee) that would be best served by declaring itself a Free State of its own and cutting the rest of the state loose to go where it will. Coincidentally, most of the rest of the state has little in common with Chicago, yet, because of the population distribution it has to dance to Chicago's tune, and would be delighted to see it broken off. Southern Illinois has more in common with Missouri, and Western Illinois has more in common with Iowa. So why would Illinois stay intact and go with the Great Plains states?

AnSTH Lawful Evil Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#21: Oct 30th 2013 at 5:04:56 PM

Are so many really so blinded by bias or outright bigotry as to not realize that an area being "strongly Christian" doesn't mean a) all Christians get along with one another, b) that everyone won't suddenly forget "render under Caesar what is Caesar's, and render unto God what is God's" (KJV phrasing, IIRC), or c) that fundamentalism is not the only flavor of Christianity?
[tup]

Also, while the Deep South is a thing we just don't get along well enough to form a cohesive independent country. Surprisingly North Carolina doesn't have as much in common with Alabama as broad generalizations of a geographical area would suggest.

But that's a story for another time.
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#22: Oct 30th 2013 at 5:06:31 PM

Barkey: They would likely become as bad as the Cartels. Just changing devils.

Breaking up America would mean breaking up the military. That alone would cause tremendous Chaos. We would likely get them doing anything from being new regions militaries to warlords and bandits like the Zetas.

Who watches the watchmen?
Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#23: Oct 30th 2013 at 5:07:46 PM

Not to mention that most of Southern California is not LA, and even most of LA does not have the same politics that the elected leaders go for.

Most Angelino's are not gun-shy, but because of the massive bloc of low income democrat voters, they vote left for other reasons that are more important to them.

Then you have the massive Mexican population, a large chunk of whom are devout catholics, and a significant chunk of which are conservative, even among the ones who can't vote.

A lot of states are, as mentioned about Illinois, very divided. California has Jesusland areas, and they also have the polar opposite, and many in between. We wouldn't quietly go in either direction. You would probably see lots of city states and unions comprised of a few nearby cities instead of one big "So Cal" state.

Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#24: Oct 30th 2013 at 5:09:22 PM

An STH: To address that, the Mormon church would definitely be a force to be reckoned with in Utah, especially around Salt Lake City. But other areas of the state are definitely not Mormon strongholds, and might well go with whatever confederation/amalgamation formed out of the other Rocky Mountain states or pieces thereof. But you're quite correct that South Carolina and Southern Alabama may both be Conservative and Christian, but aside from that, they could almost be different worlds.

To address the actual question, I suspect that we'd see the rise of city-states and Free States or Free Cities around the major metropolitan areas, port cities, and transport hubs — cities that are a state unto themselves.

edited 30th Oct '13 5:13:13 PM by Madrugada

Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#25: Oct 30th 2013 at 5:11:39 PM

^^^

Not necessarily. In some places, sure, such as the military junta I plan to establish in Ventura County, but there are definitely some interesting bastions of the military sprinkled throughout California. I don't see us getting ran over by the Cartels. They can only flourish because they blend in, and because the local government has rules they attempt to play by, as well as corruption.

They don't blend in here. San Diego would pretty much start shooting anyone with gang tattoos on the spot. I'm ok with that.


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