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EchoingSilence Since: Jun, 2013
#2226: Jan 15th 2015 at 7:34:39 PM

So what about the fact that Hardsuits are armored support for Urban combat since no one wants cyborgs with just guns for arms.

MajorTom Since: Dec, 2009
#2227: Jan 15th 2015 at 7:44:44 PM

The military as a whole, combined with a cult of personality, the extensive internal politicking, viciously dictated social structure, and tight media control is the tool not just one object.

I was thinking a place like it, not it exactly. Intimidation factor is a big thing in places with such a high level of authoritarian control.

TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#2228: Jan 15th 2015 at 8:24:10 PM

Tom: Even then they have an extensive and sometimes complex set ups to achieve that state in the first place. They have things like Secret Police agencies whose job is to not only instill fear but ferret out trouble makers.

Echo: Check this out. It is from Ghost in the Shell. It is a type of power armor called an arm suit. It is pretty heavily protected and it wields personal weapons that are in calibers or power ranges of something you would find on an Armored Fighting Vehicle. One almost kills Major Kusanagi which is a pretty mean feat in and of itself. It takes repeat hits from an Anti-Tank rifle basically to disable one and takes repeated hits after without the armor failing though it certainly isn't going anywhere.

Something else to consider is being a cyborg may be required to pilot more advanced equipment with hardware helping the user handle the machine. This is done in several sci-fi settings.

The Major fighting a mech. This beast is something like 12 feet tall more or less.

Who watches the watchmen?
ManInGray from Israel Since: Jul, 2011
#2229: Jan 16th 2015 at 3:13:11 AM

no one wants cyborgs with just guns for arms.

Why not? If the whole arm is drytech, it shouldn't be hard to disconnect the gun and put the human-mimicking hand back on.

But how about this; Most of these cyborgs' remaining biological parts are the head and most of what's in the torso, though reinforced and added to, and possibly rearranged. Most of the time, they're installed in a human-like, but still non-biological, rest-of-the-body. When comes the time to train or fight, they're brought out of it, and installed in another humanoid body designed only for war. There's more freedom in its design than in those of mechas or powered armor, since it doesn't need to contain a whole human, and said human doesn't need to move around inside.

Virtual reality working on all senses may be used to prevent understimulation; Not getting much of the usual sensory input of a human body for a long time(even if there's plenty of different input from the artificial body's powerful sensors) seems like the kind of thing that can drive you nuts, and no one wants a mentally unstable cyborg with guns for arms. You could say that the humanoid form is common because that's what most people know how to control; I don't think it's enough to justify mechas over 3 meters tall or so, but if that's what you want in that world, I don't think you should let it stop you.

Alternatively, their original rest-of-the-body is kept on life support, and reattached when they return. There's drama potential if a facility where they're kept is bombed or taken.

edited 16th Jan '15 3:23:57 AM by ManInGray

EchoingSilence Since: Jun, 2013
#2230: Jan 16th 2015 at 3:46:37 AM

Actually no (known) cyborgs in my setting are full body. Because the technology is limited and generally only applied where needed (lost a arm? We can replace that.) And people in setting are generally worried about the possibilities about the weaponization of this augmentation technology and it's availability to the masses, same with just giving people new stronger arms. It is a discussion of weapons and how people can get their hands on them and use it to harm other people. So currently cybernetics are limited to replacing lost body parts.

The hardsuits started off as 2 stories because I figured that was the best general purpose height for a construction vehicle. Or a rescue one if used properly. Though they do have cyborg control systems where said cyborg just wires themselves up to it and controls it. Hybrid controls of standard stick and the cyborg link are better received as it places less mental strain.

edited 16th Jan '15 3:55:44 AM by EchoingSilence

TairaMai rollin' on dubs from El Paso Tx Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Mu
rollin' on dubs
#2231: Jan 16th 2015 at 5:31:05 PM

A single use arm is a silly idea. It would be better to have a weapons mount on the arm and have the arm be modular.

In my setting, there are various degrees of cyborg: from full body to just a limb or some organs. Those who are full body "plug in" to larger power armor.

I tried to walk like an Egyptian and now I need to see a Cairo practor....
EchoingSilence Since: Jun, 2013
#2232: Jan 16th 2015 at 6:04:41 PM

A single use arm is silly. But that's what the people want. Considering the possibility of turning people into weapons. Something that is already happening.

And anything that alters the mind of someone is illegal and a human rights violation in setting.

MattII Since: Sep, 2009
#2233: Jan 16th 2015 at 9:36:32 PM

No need to alter the mind, fit the glove with only three fingers, and use the fourth for switching between weapons.

Also, not convinced on the hardsuits, they seem no different than all the other mechs I've come across, ie, Awesome, but Impractical.

edited 16th Jan '15 11:07:29 PM by MattII

EchoingSilence Since: Jun, 2013
#2234: Jan 17th 2015 at 4:02:40 AM

Kind of their point. They have their use and I will be adding a grappling system for them to climb tall buildings. But other than that they don't serve much outside of urban combat and even then they are a mixed bag.

My reasoning? No reason I just wanted to.

edited 17th Jan '15 4:03:19 AM by EchoingSilence

TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#2235: Jan 17th 2015 at 5:36:27 AM

An alternate thought on the cyborg arms and weapons. The arms serve as mounting interfaces for said weapons but are limited in type like common small arms, light weight grenade launchers, small rocket launchers, melee weapons etc. Handy for combat scenarios and the mountings require specialized technicians to link the weapons to the arm so the user can properly wield them. This could be due to intricacies and/or complexities of the system to rig the arm up with a weapon but retain use of the arms normal use. Same could go for any weaponized cybernetic.

Sometimes rule of cool is just worth it.

Who watches the watchmen?
EchoingSilence Since: Jun, 2013
#2236: Jan 17th 2015 at 5:52:44 AM

Motungs and Hardsuits are two different things. Motungs barely reach over 1 story, 16.2 at best if legs are fully straightened out and they generally have a boxy more ulitarian look. Think like a Armored Trooper without the gun turret hatch head. They have their uses in military combat and that isn't debated.

While Hardsuits reach 2 stories in height and are generally considered Awesome, but Impractical despite their use and speedy humanlike movement. A bit more like a Knightmare Frame.

But arm mount possibilities could work for both of them. Motungs have mount sockets on their bodies. While a Hardsuit is generally built for one purpose and wasn't intended to be used for military combat in the first place.

edited 17th Jan '15 5:53:11 AM by EchoingSilence

TairaMai rollin' on dubs from El Paso Tx Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Mu
rollin' on dubs
#2237: Jan 17th 2015 at 11:46:48 AM

You'll want a variety of sizes. In urban combat, passages can shrink from 3 feet high to barely able to crawl through. A street or bridge may look passable, but it might not bear the weight of two people, much less a 10 foot tall hardsuit.

So a variety of sizes that can scale up and down would do the trick. Things like the "Jackets" from Edge Of Tomorrow all the way up to the walking tank from Ghost In The Shell and all points in between.

I tried to walk like an Egyptian and now I need to see a Cairo practor....
TairaMai rollin' on dubs from El Paso Tx Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Mu
rollin' on dubs
#2238: Jan 17th 2015 at 11:47:36 AM

A Brain-Computer Interface That Works Wirelessly

A few paralyzed patients could soon be using a wireless brain-computer interface able to stream their thought commands as quickly as a home Internet connection.

After more than a decade of engineering work, researchers at Brown University and a Utah company, Blackrock Microsystems, have commercialized a wireless device that can be attached to a person’s skull and transmit via radio thought commands collected from a brain implant. Blackrock says it will seek clearance for the system from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, so that the mental remote control can be tested in volunteers, possibly as soon as this year.

I tried to walk like an Egyptian and now I need to see a Cairo practor....
MajorTom Since: Dec, 2009
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#2240: Jan 17th 2015 at 12:06:28 PM

Oh so neat with all the pitfalls of wireless signal like signal interference and increased vulnerability. No thanks. Hard Wires>Wireless. Last thing anyone might want is for their mentally controlled hardware to suffer deliberate or accidental interference from an outside source causing possibly serious issues.

Smart Shotgun Fired Rounds They are basically in round sensor fuzed air bursting projectiles. One is a flash bang the other flash bang pepper cloud.

edited 17th Jan '15 1:26:17 PM by TuefelHundenIV

Who watches the watchmen?
AFP Since: Mar, 2010
#2241: Jan 17th 2015 at 1:47:42 PM

I'm just picturing someone having a USB port installed in their head (as opposed to the various gnarly looking plugs you always see in sci-fi).

EchoingSilence Since: Jun, 2013
#2242: Jan 17th 2015 at 2:12:35 PM

Plugs in my setting for Cyborgs are kinda like that.

TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#2243: Jan 17th 2015 at 2:30:27 PM

Afp: There magnetic plugs as well as the gnarly plugs. GITS has the thin retractable wires with a physical plug into a port. They also have wireless interface with cybernetics which is frequently taken advantage of by various characters in the series. For example hacking cyber eyes and fooling people into seeing things that aren't there.

Who watches the watchmen?
EchoingSilence Since: Jun, 2013
#2244: Jan 17th 2015 at 3:02:05 PM

All cyborg brains in setting act as a anti virus system since the human brain is already one of the most powerful computers on the planet.

This prevents hacking of cybernetics.

MajorTom Since: Dec, 2009
#2245: Jan 17th 2015 at 6:22:54 PM

So I saw this over in The Military Thread that Tuffel mentioned. If it is as effective as theorized, would that mean 40mm grenades would have the same striking power as a 57mm APHE or HEAT round? Or better? Or worse? Or does it simply mean less risk of something be it spontaneous warhead cookoff or what have you?

TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#2246: Jan 17th 2015 at 9:57:27 PM

No clue how effective it would actually be. Supposedly it squeezes some extra hitting power out of HEAT rounds likely at the cost of a possibly heavier round.

Who watches the watchmen?
Belisaurius Since: Feb, 2010
#2247: Jan 18th 2015 at 6:23:40 AM

Is this a thanix cannon I see before me? Have we entered mass effect already?

TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#2248: Jan 18th 2015 at 2:50:25 PM

Nope. It not only works differently it is kind of missing the magical hand wavium that makes the Thanix work.

Who watches the watchmen?
Flanker66 Dreams of Revenge from 30,000 feet and climbing Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Dreams of Revenge
#2249: Jan 19th 2015 at 7:41:11 AM

Random musing: if you could give it a powerplant that isn't underpowered, how feasible (in terms of effectiveness) would a space capable dropship in the vein of the Mi-24 Hindnote  be?

Locking you up on radar since '09
AFP Since: Mar, 2010
#2250: Jan 19th 2015 at 7:45:51 AM

Hard part would be getting past whatever Anti-Air envelope the enemy can throw up. If they're coming down from orbit, it will be hard for them to avoid being detected like helicopters traditionally try to do.


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