Getting Crap Past the Radar cleanup

Is this from Same Content, Different Rating a valid example of Getting Crap Past the Radar (it's also on Radar.Video Games):

• Kirby's Dream Land 3 is rated K-A despite featuring Zero as the True Final Boss, who gorily rips out his own iris and uses his own blood as projectiles, too. Since some of the steps to encounter Zero can be hard to figure out on one's own, it's very possible that the ESRB weren't even aware of that fight's existence. Upon the game's inclusion in Kirby's Dream Collection, the ESRB finally caught onto this and gave it an E10+ rating for "Animated Blood".

The ESRB only caught onto it after the first release, so it probably counts.

and It was I who have added the Kirby's Dream Land 3 example to Radar.Video Games

From earlier discussions, it's considered a valid example. Just because Kirby games are meant for young children (and I'm a huge Kirby fan, right down to my avatar) does not mean that horror elements don't exist in Kirby games.

Kirby creator Masahiro Sakurai figured out that ratings boards (at the time) won't be able to reach the true final boss. The ESRB did not retroactively modify Kirby Dream Land 3's ratings at all (as seen in re-releases with the game being E-rated) and only applied the E10+ rating to the compilation game (Kirby's Dream Collection).

Sakurai succeeded in evading the radar and I have added it to the main Radar page.

Edited by Nen_desharu on Apr 6th 2021 at 11:37:22 AM

~vampirebuddha and ~mightymewtron

You might be interested in this article:

https://web.archive.org/web/20070927043516/http://www.fradical.com/ontario_film_review_board_adds_new_category.htm

It's about radar evasion for the Ontario Film Review Board (and how two films were given the AA rating (equivalent to 14A today) because there was no equivalent to the 18A rating in Ontario at the time, which led to the creation of the 18A rating).

Edited by Nen_desharu on Apr 6th 2021 at 11:45:21 AM

It's worth keeping in mind for historical context but I don't know if the development of a stronger rating after the work was released would make a work GCPTR.

That would make for a very interesting discussion, which could also apply to the Kirby's Dream Land 3 example to some degree (as the E10+ rating did not exist when the game was first made and it would be absurd to give a Kirby game the Teen rating).

Edited by Nen_desharu on Apr 6th 2021 at 11:53:39 AM

I've brought attention to GCPTR's video examples in the video quality control thread, but the discussion moved past them. Long story short, none of the examples fit the trope as it is currently defined, and some are clearly shoehorned. I'd like to get them reassigned to other tropes, but I don't want to jump the gun, so I figure I'll post here to see what others think.

• "My wife IS at home." —> The Mistress
• "Mr. Pettibone" —> Literal Metaphor - he's a literal skeleton in an actual closet
• "Desert Tower" —> Accidental Innuendo
• "Donkey Kong Country" —> Have a Gay Old Time - because "cream pie" was not a porn term when the episode aired
• "Joey, have you ever..." —> All Gays Are Paedophiles, I guess?
• "Re-inflatting Otto" —> Does This Remind You of Anything?
• "Plunger thing" —> Sexophone, or possibly Accidental Innuendo or Demographically Inappropriate Humour
• "...gentleman callers..." —> Your Mom
• "Lonely Space Vixens" —> Demographically Inappropriate Humour
• "Totally Spies!" —> Smitten Teenage Girl
• "The Loud House" —> Bait-and-Switch Comment
• "Chowder" —> Noodle Incident
• "The Adventures of Sam & Max: Freelance Police" —> Demographically Inappropriate Humour
• "The Cat in the Hat (2003) - The S.L.O.W." —> Fun with Acronyms
• "Justice League Unlimited" —> Double Entendre

I think the Chowder example could be moved to The Unintelligible. I don't think it quite fits Noodle Incident as that's more for ambiguous past events.

Isn't Demographically Inapropriate Homour a opinion trope?

The page said it is unlistable.

Edited by Delibirda on Apr 9th 2021 at 2:14:12 PM

Being YMMV doesn't prevent it from having video examples.

The way I see it, DIH is YMMV but not necessarily an audience reaction. It's still about the content of the work more than the audience interpretation of the work. The YMMV angle is just in case people don't see it as dirty. (Frankly I don't think it needs to be YMMV, and I worry that might work against it becoming known when cleaning up GCPTR, but eh.)

Edited by mightymewtron on Apr 10th 2021 at 2:47:25 PM

What counts as inappropriate is, if not subjective, at least full of grey areas.

For example, is a sex joke appropriate in a work aimed at 25-year-olds? Most people would say yes. What about if it's aimed at 20-year-olds? 15-year-olds? 10-year-olds? 5-year-olds? Most people would say no for that last one, but the where do you draw the line?

And does gender matter? The TV Tropes hivemind doesn't appear to consider a gay sex joke any more or less inappropriate than a het sex joke (as long as it's not homophobic), but CARA has a documented history of considering any form of homosexuality to be less appropriate for a given age group than heterosexuality. I know I disagree with that assessment, and I suspect you do, too, buuuut that's based on opinion.

Also, the Chowder example going to The Unintelligible works for me. Any other suggestions?

Remember, we're still talking about the radar here, and they have a history of rating homosexuality "harsher" than heterosexuality.

Right. The Troper Hivemind aren't the ones behind the radar.

it was probably mentioned earlier so apologies if i missed it, but does this cleanup also cover the radar subpages (i.e., Radar.VideoGames)? shouldn't they be cut since they're following the old definition of the trope, and GCPTR itself is no off-page examples?

Go through them first to see if anything there counts under the new definition, and to move the misuse to other tropes if possible.

thank you. i don't really have a hand in this cleanup otherwise, i'm afraid, it caught my eye when i was doing unrelated editing. i'll be on the lookout for any misuse, though

bwburke: True, but in the case of CARA, they're going by what they consider to be demographically appropriate. And if not them, there are still Moral Guardians.

This is the page for Radar.Digimon

It seems like it covers all of the series that don't have their own, separate Radar pages, including Digimon Adventure, Digimon Adventure 02, Digimon Data Squad, and Digimon Fusion. I can nab the ratings for each, but it's getting late here so I'll probably wait til tomorrow. Also, I can't seem to find in-depth details about what's allowed for each rating (specifically, American TV ratings). Again, I'll probably look around more tomorrow.

• In general, Digimon really did have more translator bravery than a lot of anime aired in the Saturday morning cartoon block. Other series lost entire episodes or even arcs, had stories and characters changed drastically because God forbid there should be any drama, angst (kids can't handle it!) or romance (that's tantamount to admitting sex exists!/Boys will think it's yucky!) happen. Digimon will keep the handgun given to an eight-year-old out of frame but that's about the extent. Never Say "Die" applied pretty much to death words only, and the occasional use of The Hit Flash. (They did try to pretend away two deaths in the Myotismon arc, but then they realized just how huge a body count the series was going to rack up from here on in and gave up.) You get things like the sight of Chuumon with one of Piedmon's knives sticking out of him (we lose only the instant the knife goes in.) The letter of the law is adhered to
  • Death and related words are actually said fairly regularly in Adventure, 02, and Tamers. They gloss over it a bit, but they don't outright hide it. Heck, they've even used "kill" before!
    • That was T.K. When BlackWarGreymon was going after one of those stones that tied the Digital World together, Cody stood in between him and it all on his own. Just before it cut to commercial you get a chilling, "He'll be killed!"
  • Tamers definitely averted the Never Say "Die" trope. When Guilmon first biomerged to create his Mega form, Kenta was worried about Takato's disappearance and thought he may have fallen off a cliff "and be hurt or dead or something" amongst other points.

A character with a knife sticking out of it at one point (I think it's from Digimon Adventure) and averting Never Say "Die"

• Thanks to the higher demographic target, Digimon Data Squad (Y-7 in the US, dunno about Japan) can get more leeway than usual. Even then, some of those aspects are ridiculous, such as:
  • Yoshino barging in and insisting on 'accompanying' Masaru for security reasons, which results in her sleeping in his room. Consider this: at this point their relationship is defined by bickering and mockery, and there's 4 years of difference between them. Chika even lampshades how they act somewhat too close.
    • Masaru's mom let it go without further ado, so that's a bonus.

From the character page for the series, an 18-year-old character who sees herself as a Cool Big Sis and a Hot-Blooded 14-year-old boy, respectively. I can't seem to find anything on the Character/ or Anime/ page that suggests there's Ship Tease

• Emphasis on Rosemon's Digivolution as well as transition from local Bridge Bunnies to Lovely Angels (training suit with loose zipper).

I'm not sure what "emphasis" means, exactly, and whether it would be allowed or not. Pic of the digimon here◊. I also have no idea what the second part is trying to say

• Taking the cake and eating it is Touma vs Nanami. To say this is not sexual at all is the same as saying how sincere GLADOS is.

Link is dead. I have no idea what this is about

• Chika drags Ikuto and Falcomon to the bathroom and then throws them into the bathtub, but not without stripping down poor Ikuto first.

Seems like an elementary schooler tossing another elementary schooler + digimon into the bath. Probably Naked People Are Funny if anything

• The way Ikuto's mother is Bound and Gagged.

Probably just a character being tied up/restrained

• Given how the previous seasons' dub censored all the instances of "real" guns being used, it was a surprise to see Kurata and his soldiers keeping their guns intact in Data Squad.

Sounds like an internal policy change?

• With Masaru and Touma gone, it's up to Yoshino, Ikuto, Miki, and Megumi to fight Belphemon. Think about it: three grown-up ladies who wear somewhat fanservice-y clothes are bringing a pre-pubescent boy with motorcycles at night. The situation might be intense, but it's hard to not snicker at the party's composition and accuse the ladies of being paedophiles.

I'm not sure what this is, but I'm pretty sure it's not GCPTR

• Mervamon from Digimon Fusion really takes the "Ms. Fanservice" trope and runs with it to the end zone. Her bustier is flesh-toned.

I'm not sure how fanservice-y the designs in childrens' media are allowed to be

• In the sequel, in the second-to-last episode she Xrosses with Beelzemon, and uses an attack called Sexy the Cannon.

Not sure whether the word "Sexy" is allowed or not

• Stingmon and Lilamon from the original Xros Wars. One is an insect and another is a flower. They're portrayed as lovers. Insert pollination jokes here.

Seems like it would be another trope, like PB or DIH or something

• Lilithmon, in an Evil Is Sexy manner, is similar to Mervamon at least in the original dub of Digimon Fusion. A particular standout moment is in The Dark Side of Bright Land, when the radar is outright shattered as she fondles her breasts and tells her comrades how being in Hell's Field is getting her ''excited'' because of how the area feels to her.

Depends on Japanese ratings and what's allowed under them, assuming the example's written accurately

• The dub might have toned down her sexiness, but in episode 10, when she's approached by Reapmon, she tells him in exchange for getting rid of the kids, "I'll take you ice skating and we'll use [IceDevimon] as the rink."

Maybe I'm just dense or missing context, but it sounds like she's just offering to go on a date?

• Digimon Adventure 3D: Digimon Grandprix! has Agumon outright shitting with his behind right in front of the camera!

Not sure how much is shown - maybe Toilet Humor?

Edited by Willowleaf24 on Apr 11th 2021 at 10:06:45 AM

I find IMDB useful for getting age ratings. For the most part I just consider the ratings for English-speaking countries, because when you get into other languages, translation choices become an issue. In the case of Digimon, the Japanese rating should also be considered given that's the country of origin.

Anyway, for Digimon:

Digimon '99 (AKA Digimon Adventure):

• USA: TV-Y7 (censored), TV-PG (uncensored)
• UK: U, PG
• Australia: G (TV), PG (video)
• New Zealand: PG
• Japan: G

Digmon: The Movie:

• USA: PG
• Canada: G (Quebec), PG (English)
• Australa: PG
• New Zealand: PG
• UK: PG
• Irealnd: PG
• Japan: G

Digimon Season 2 (AKA Digimon Adventure 02):

• USA: TV-G
• Canada: G (Quebec)
• UK: 12

Digimon Season 3 (AKA Digimon Tamers):

• USA: TV-Y7
• Canada: G
• Australia: PG
• UK: 12

Digimon Tamers: Battle of Adventurers: No information available

Digimon Season 4 (AKA Digimon Frontier):

• USA: TV-Y7
• UK: PG
• Japan: G

Digimon Data Squad (AKA Digimon Savers):

• USA: TV-Y7
• Canada: G (Quebec)
• Australia: PG
• New Zealand: PG

Digimon Fusion (AKA Digimon ×ros Wars):

• USA: TV-PG
• Canada: PG (DVD)
• Australia: PG (DVD)

Digimon Universe: App Monsters

• USA: TV-Y7, TV-PG
• Canada: G
• Australia: PG

Digimon Adventure has so far only aired in Japan and IMDB does not have any age rating information.

Sighs...right after Vampire worked to reorganize the video examples, another example was uploaded. It might count as it's a pretty explicit sex joke, but since it's in subbed Japanese, it could just as well be Spice Up the Subtitles and not actually violate the Japanese censors.

Wonder if we should make the trope No Video Examples.

I think if it demonstrates a valid example listed on the page, then we could still have video examples. The ratings info can be added to the description.

Eh...I guess I'm just too cynical in that I don't trust people to add proper examples, video or otherwise.

In that case, we'd need to ban all video examples from all tropes.

I wish we could lock video uploading but that's for another thread. This would just be way easier if we could edit others' videos.