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Ciaphas Cain (HERO OF THE IMPERIUM!) by Sandy Mitchell

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TamH70 Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
#1: Oct 4th 2013 at 8:25:21 PM

Since we don't seem to have a thread discussing the books and the characters therein, for some strange reason or another, yet have a huge list of tropes, shout outs and fanfic recs surrounding him, it behooves me to start one. In the Emperor's name and all that. 8-)

(I just hope some other folks are interested in the books otherwise it will fail to get off the ground.)

Let me start by saying I think I go along with the proposition that Commissar Cain is far far far braver than he will ever admit to, simply because almost every time he can run away from helping those he can help, he doesn't do it. His abandonment of Gunner Jurgen in his first encounter seems to be an aberration given what he and Jurgen go through and get up to later in the books.

And also because he is alive long enough to retire and eventually die of natural causes - from what little I understand of mainline Warhammer 40K this is a rarity beyond almost anything else.

If he was as much a coward as he claims, surely Inquisitor Amberley Veil would have had him shot, or done the deed herself?

Anyway, the floor is open.

3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#2: Oct 5th 2013 at 4:36:59 AM

I am bringing a motion to the floor of this thread, to rename it

"The Ciaphas Cain - HERO OF THE IMPERIUM! - novels, by Sandy Mitchell."

tongue

I figure he's far braver than he thinks himself too, but it would be way more boring to read him if he didn't think that way ;)

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KnightofLsama Since: Sep, 2010
#3: Oct 5th 2013 at 4:51:44 AM

[up] Lately I've been becoming more convinced by the theory that Cain is actually brave by our standards but the Imperium's messed up martyr culture means that he sees himself as a coward.

Mars444 Since: May, 2013
#5: Oct 5th 2013 at 12:55:09 PM

Any idea if there's going to be another book coming out?

I want to get back to the 597th. This last book felt a bit underwhelming because of a lack of decent supporting characters (Jurgen can only do so much).

kingtiger522 Since: Jul, 2012
#6: Oct 5th 2013 at 1:26:25 PM

[up]Dude, Jurgen can do ANYTHING. The man is made of win.

That said, I'm hoping we see more of either (or, even better, both) the 597th or the Tau, 'cause in the latter's case, the last book was just a massive tease.

On Cain's character: I feel like Cain is too hard on himself, and has taken to viewing his past triumphs in the worst possible light. He's clearly brave (in the "fighting through the fear" sense of the word), but he feels inadequate compared to his reputation. As such, he's taken to rationalizing everything he ever did in an effort to distance himself from it. He's really damn good at his job, but he doesn't give himself any credit for it.

TamH70 Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
#7: Oct 5th 2013 at 11:59:14 PM

Hmm. Not sure when or if there will be another omnibus edition of the books - though I wouldn't put it past the Black Library to send one out through the warp. As for more Valhallan 597th content, well, I would like that a lot myself, though I am not sure what Sandy Mitchell's plans are for the series. He does more than Cain books for the Black Library.

I finished reading all but one of the books only to find I got my reading order screwed up because I couldn't read the Warhammer Lexicon websites webpage properly and missed out one of them in the chronological sequence. The page is fricking horrible to read in Chrome because I couldn't change the default setting to a nice tidy plain white background - it's all dark grey and small type and stuff. I had to run it in Firefox with no page style to actually read the sodding thing. Most un good.

Bonus is I get to read all the books again.

Rotpar Always 3:00 am in the Filth (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Always 3:00 am in the Filth
#8: Oct 6th 2013 at 12:24:10 PM

More or less, Cain is a "coward". The trick being that he's a coward with a good sense of threat assessment; he knows his odds are better in a near-suicide mission to prevent an apocalyptic disaster than if he tried to survive said apocalyptic disaster. He really doesn't want to fight Chaos marines and genestealers but he really, really doesn't want to fight the daemons and hive fleets that follow.

edited 6th Oct '13 12:25:34 PM by Rotpar

But don't give up hope. Everyone is cured sooner or later. In the end we shall shoot you.
SebastianGray (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#9: Oct 6th 2013 at 1:55:51 PM

This is still my favourite take on the seriesgrin

Personally I would like to see more of Cain's adventures with Inquisitor Vail rather than the Valhallans but then the Inquisition has always been one of my favourite parts of 40K.

I also really must get around to reading The Greater Good.

TamH70 Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
#10: Oct 10th 2013 at 1:48:11 AM

[up]You should, it's quite a good book. Commissar Cain is really nonplussed as how to deal with the Tau.

edgewalker22 Lawful neutral Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: Gay for Big Boss
Lawful neutral
#11: Oct 11th 2013 at 2:31:00 AM

The Greater Good is, um, good. The Last Ditch is skippable, Bilingual Bonus in the planet's name notwithstanding. I really, really hope we get to see Cain go up against the Dark Eldar at some point- he tends to fight Orks, 'Nids, and Necrons- enemies with no obvious higher reasoning capabilities. I could see a Dark Eldar Homunculus capturing Cain and then just shooting the shit to see how long it takes him to crack.

3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#12: Oct 11th 2013 at 2:07:22 PM

[up]Well, it is established that he met them at some point.

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imadinosaur Since: Oct, 2011
#13: Oct 11th 2013 at 4:08:33 PM

There are references to him taking part in the liberation of an Eldar pirate slave ship.

Personally I think he'd be more entertaining interacting with some Craftworld Eldar. Jurgen's presence could probably mess up a Farseer's day.

Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.
3of4 Just a harmless giant from a foreign land. from Five Seconds in the Future. Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
Just a harmless giant from a foreign land.
#14: Oct 11th 2013 at 4:24:29 PM

That'd be hilarious.

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TamH70 Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
#15: Oct 14th 2013 at 3:37:52 AM

I don't really know much about Warhammer 40K, but what would happen if a blank like Gunner Jurgen was actually snuck into the middle of a lot of those types of guys? Would hilarity entail or something like that?

Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#16: Oct 14th 2013 at 12:52:33 PM

Well, given that Bequin inspires feelings of revulsion in normal humans and actual physical discomfort in a moderate psyker like Eisenhorn, I imagine that Jurgen plus very powerful Eldar Farseers would give them a hell of a headache.

Personally, I'm in the "doesn't give himself enough credit" school of Ciaphas Cain readers. Notably, unlike Flashman, on whom he's based, he is actually good deep down, whilst Flashman is an unbridled arsehole.

Schild und Schwert der Partei
TamH70 Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
#17: Oct 18th 2013 at 8:42:56 AM

Jurgen makes Amberley's pet psyker, Rakel, almost catatonic. If you go by the "the greater the power of the psyker, (and those Eldar Farseers sound REALLY powerful), the greater effect on them that a blank would have" theory, he should at the very least make said Eldar Farseers bleed from the ears.

Would be fun to find out, eh?

imadinosaur Since: Oct, 2011
#18: Oct 18th 2013 at 9:35:18 AM

The main thing about Farseers is (as their name suggests) they can predict the future. The strongest of them have elaborate plans stretching over several millennia. And they're dicks (warning: some NSFW stuff there).

Throwing a blank in there... I'm not sure how that would affect their future-seeing ability. For a more normal-level Farseer than Eldrad, it could very well mess with that ability. Sort of like the Mule from Foundation: an element that can't be accounted for in the Farseer's plans.

Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.
TamH70 Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
#19: Oct 19th 2013 at 10:36:53 AM

So they may not even see Jurgen coming? Cool.

AndrewGPaul Since: Oct, 2009
#20: Oct 24th 2013 at 4:46:03 AM

Ten thousand years of Leto II's Golden Path and we end up with ... gunner Jurgen? That's a bit of a letdown. :)

TamH70 Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
#21: Oct 25th 2013 at 11:44:39 AM

Gunner Ferik Jurgen is good and good for you. He's the kind of soldier that is a nightmare in a barracks situation but exactly the kind you want at your side when the heretics are chucking genestealers and bolter rounds at you. Or as Ciaphas would say, at your front.[lol]

I have a whole metric ton of other Warhammer 40K books I could be reading, including large chunks of the Horus Heresy, Grey Knights and Blood Ravens novels, but I don't really know if they are worth getting into. I love the Cain books that much.

AndrewGPaul Since: Oct, 2009
#22: Oct 29th 2013 at 9:24:21 AM

I'd say they're not. The Heresy series started out OK - nothijng special, but above average for game tie-in novels. Sadly, it became rapidly apparent that they were going to milk the series for all it was worth. I struggled through Battle For The Abyss and Mechanicum, but I finally abandoned the series halfway through Nemesis. If I really feel the need to know what's going on I'll read it on Lexicanum. In the mean time, there's plenty better sci fi I could be reading instead.

Bloodsquirrel Since: May, 2011
#23: Oct 29th 2013 at 10:45:59 AM

The Heresy series is hit-or-miss. Having at least one focusing on each legion made sense, so I can understand having a lot of novels in the series. Some of them are pure filler, though, and it seems like the various writers can't be assed to keep their story straight.

Battle for the Abyss sucked, and was made completely redundant by Know no Fear.

The Outcast dead is pointless, and introduces the massive plot hole of claiming that Magnus' warning came *after* the drop site massacre.

Angel Exterminatus feels like it spent half of its time setting up characters and ideas that don't pay off (And I don't care if they pay off later- this series has enough things sitting around waiting to be developed. We don't need more.)

Nemesis was alright, on its own, but further padded out a series that already had a ton of material to get through.

The constant short story and novellas they keep putting out are generally either pointless or should have been rolled into the main novels.

imadinosaur Since: Oct, 2011
#24: Oct 29th 2013 at 1:05:53 PM

Man I just object to how the series handled certain things (note that this is based on wiki summaries and so on, I don't bother with books about Space Marines), such as making Horus' fall happen because... of a fucking daemon sword rather than his own pride. Uch.

Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.
AndrewGPaul Since: Oct, 2009
#25: Oct 30th 2013 at 9:13:26 AM

It wasn't Know No Fear that made Battle For The Abyss pointless; it was everything ever written about the Heresy previously. We already know that the events in the book will have no repercussions on the story, so we're just left with a character piece. Sadly, the characters are boring - including Leeroy Jenkins of the World Eaters and Snidely Whiplash of the Word Bearers.


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