A thread to discuss My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic and the tie-in media.
All of the usual forum rules
apply. In addition, please remember that the thread is discussing a kids' show, and it's primarily focused on the work itself, not the fanfic — in particular, we don't want to see lewdness creeping in.
Edited by Mrph1 on Aug 26th 2024 at 10:24:26 AM
The GGG was actually what was driving the story. The Mane 6's reactions to it, how it failed compared to their expectations, the events of the gala, and how they reacted to it was the whole driving point of the story.
EG, the games themselves had no bearing on the story. you couldn't remove the Gala from BNE without completely rewriting the entire story. you could take out the Games from EG and not change anything but a few minor details and some exposition. The mane 6 couldn't have had the story they did in BNE without the Gala. Spike could have easily had this story without the Games.
You'd have to change every major event in the episode - the torch lighting, the anthem singing, the ice cloud, etc.
I can see the idea behind what you're saying, but it just doesn't hold up when you actually look at the episodes.
Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's PlayI'm split on the games bit. On one hand, I can see why it's frustrating to have the event sidelined for a Spike episode after a buildup like this. On the other hand, I can't see exactly how focusing on the games themselves rather than making them a backdrop would've worked well. Fluttershy and Rainbow Dash are the only characters participating, and I don't know what you'd be able to do with them in that context that hasn't already been covered by Rainbow Falls and Hurricane Fluttershy, etc. Furthermore, their performance at the games is never in focus; even in Rainbow Falls the issue is less RD's drive to win and more where her loyalties lie. Whether or not they'd win at the games never was a major issue.
The only thing I could think of doing was focusing on other characters other than Spike. Which personally I think would've improved it (focus on Cadance and SA as they try to make sure everything proceeds on schedule or something), but it wouldn't change the whole "games as a backdrop to the action" issue much. The short version is that the issue is less that the episode itself was bad and more that it wasn't something else.
Of course, it might be because I honestly care more about the character bits than watching more events or whatever; the events don't really matter unless the characters are involved somehow. It would've been cool to see more, but I don't feel like the episode is ruined because of it.
As for the season's overall quality, I think it's been pretty good. Not perfect, obviously, but it has a lot of strong episodes. "Rarity Takes Manehattan", "Pinkie Apple Pie", "Pinkie Pride", "Filli Vanilli" (Pinkie aside), "Maud Pie", "Testing Testing 1,2,3" are all episodes that I think stand up to S1 and S2.
And while there have been a few "meh" episodes in S4 ("Daring Don't" and "Leap of Faith" particularly), I don't think they fall as flat as the weaker episodes of earlier seasons ("Over a Barrel", "Dragon Quest", MMDW, and "Apple Family Reunion"). If anything, I think S3 is the weakest so far; it has some good episodes, but it never really built momentum and has too many rushed plots. S4 was a return to form, IMO.
@Seraphem: Story's point is that you could've replaced the Gala with any other public function (like a movie premiere or a sporting event or whatever) and the plot would still work. With the Games, the bits with lighting the torch and singing and anthem for the winning team couldn't be subbed in with any other sort of function without rewriting a lot of stuff. I agree that more focus on the games would've been cool, but saying that they weren't relevant at all is blatantly incorrect. What could you sub in for the games that wouldn't result in those scenes having to be rewritten?
edited 4th May '14 10:00:22 AM by JapaneseTeeth
Reaction Image RepositoryExcept that while you'd have to change the events, it wouldn't change the story. Yeah something different would be the cause of it, but you wouldn't have to alter Spikes behavior one bit. Other then it being something else besides lighting the torch he had to do. The Ice Cloud could have been any generic threat that was flammable, the anthem he could have done the exact same thing for any reason besides it being the Games. And nothing would have to change about what Spike was doing or why. The Games in and of themselves had no impact on the story. Other then being the setting. One which could have been replaced by nearly anything.
And yeah, would have needed something other then just a session of event after event, but the Games should have at least, you know, been a major factor in their own episode. had some actual bearing on the story. And gotten much more elaboration and detail then we got out of them..
Idea on how to actually make the Games, about the games and still about a character? Make it about Twilight. About her trying to balance being a Princess, with being from Ponyville. Trying to not appear to be showing favoritism. Learning about how being in her position, requires her to sometimes act 'official' and not express exactly what she's feeling. Dealing with the conflict. wanting to cheer for her friends, her town, but also not wanting to appear biased.
I see it the other way, you couldn't sub in the Gala for something else without vastly altering things, or having the 'something else' be so close to the Gala it makes no difference. EG, everything could have been removed about the games with very minor changes. the Torch Lighting could have been any kind of public performance, any festival, anything that put him in front of crowd with a role to do. the anthem could have been him trying to sing anything. Yeah the background would have changed, but nothing about Spikes behavior would, it had zero impact on him.
Season 3 really only had two big issues. It overall size being half the norm, so less of everything, and it frontloaded all it's best episodes. So it started out good, then kind of dropped after the first half, rather then staying at a steady height. It had more or less the same Great/Good/Meh/Bad ratio as any other season, accounting for size. the fact that most of the best ones were clumped together near the front made it feel off. But yeah least good season, but still overall great.
edited 4th May '14 10:07:45 AM by Seraphem
You could say that about almost a lot of episodes, though. Like Filli Vanilli could've been about any situation that involved Fluttershy singing, or "Testing Testing 1, 2, 3" being about any type of test that RD has to take.
For comparison, let's look at the characteristics that events would have to have to be subbed in without rewriting the episodes:
- Best Night Ever: You could sub in any high society event, as long as it doesn't meet expectations.
- Equestria Games: You'd need to sub in an event that:
- Takes place in an area where Spike is famous
- Spike is given an important symbolic duty to open the festivities, specifically one that requires him to use fire
- Spike volunteers to sing, but realizes too late that he doesn't know the words
- Spike saves the day from an imminent disaster that only he's capable of immediately addressing
- Spike gets another attempt to use his fire breath to close out the event
If anybody can suggest one event that could be subbed in without having to rewrite any scenes, I'd love to hear it. The short version is that while yes, the GGG is important to that episode, it's also a very generic event, whereas the Games have a lot of specific events within them that would be harder to sub out.
edited 4th May '14 10:16:04 AM by JapaneseTeeth
Reaction Image RepositoryI wonder how well a whole episode of Twilight continuing to adjust to life as a princess, with the Games as the backdrop, would have worked.
Any festival at all. The first part had nothing to do with the games, but being in the Crystal Empire. So as long as it's set there, that's covered. The rest, like I said any festival or major event taking place in the Empire could have had those. Like the next Crystal Fair, with Spike being asked to take a large part in out of gratitude for what he did, so set up the opening to be based on him, you know, being a dragon.
The others could easily have happened somehow, and the end was him lighting fireworks, something that again, ANY major event could have ended with.
None of those 'specific events' had anything to do with the games themselves. At least far as the focus of the story was concerned, since nothing about the games in and of themselves was driving the story. That the whole point, we didn't actually see many of the events of the games. It was a story about Spike, that happened to take place at the Games. While BNE was the story or the mane 6 AT the Gala.
edited 4th May '14 10:21:53 AM by Seraphem
I think the question is "What more would they do with the games that would still be relevant"?
Also, having it be "just some festival" would take away a lot of the reasons for Spike's nerves. It's not just being in the center of attention, it's that he's being trusted with a long-standing tradition that's important to all of Equestria. And the other thing is that if you would replace it, you'd basically just end up having to rewrite a lot of stuff to explain why he's lighting a torch or singing or whatever.
Reaction Image RepositoryWould we have really cared about seeing a bunch of ponies we don't know competing in sporting events? There's no conflict there!
Even the fact that Ponyville won the medal total seems rather underwhelming considering what we're used to in this show.
Then again, like Storyyeller seems to believe, I find sports inherently boring (okay, there are a couple of minor exceptions like gymnastics and ping-pong finals and, if we're counting fictional sports, quidditch, which could easily be made more interesting anyway, even in the muggle-version).
EDIT:
This too. Seriously, what kind of plot could we gain from focusing on the Games that wouldn't seem humdrum?
edited 4th May '14 10:44:37 AM by Sereg
competing in sporting events? There's no conflict there!
Ummm.. what? We already saw Ice Archery, just imagine what other amazing things they could have some up with. Yeah I would have LOVED an episode of just the events. Yeah I hate 'real' sports, but these would have been so damn awesome to see.
What about the unicorn's? What kind of competition could they have had? Ponyville winning the medal count is underwhelming because it means little in the story, it's just something brought up out of nowhere. We don't actually see the totals rising, see them competing, fighting for those medals.
Finally caught the episode and honestly, that was a pretty sweet message about letting pass mistakes go. But I still find Twilight "Too perfect" compared to every other pony.
Dakota's blog An odd agent of justice
I was annoyed by that at first {Not for this episode though}, but then "Testing, Testing 1 2 3" fixed that problem.
Personally I was just happy that Spike finally got some amount of respect and a happy ending after an entire season of him being the overly-abused Butt-Monkey. It's almost like the writers predicated my complaints for the season {Spike being used solely as comic relief and Twilight's temporary newfound blandness} and decided to end the problems near the end.
I think Dave Polsky's writing for the show has really improved, because this episode and Rarity Takes Manehatten are really good. On a different note, the episode right before this one was also really great too.
edited 4th May '14 10:51:47 AM by marston
She seems the same as she's always been when not the focus character. same for ANY of the mane 6. you have their focus episode characterization, then there one for when they out of focus.
And what mis-treatment? none of the other characters ever actually do anything bad, ever show any signs of anything but respecting him and treating him like a friend.
edited 4th May '14 10:50:28 AM by Seraphem
There are probably some people who would have genuinely wanted to see more sports then Spike, but that's neither here nor there.
For me it wasn't honestly about seeing more of the actual Equestria Games. I just personally felt that there could have been more done with it, especially after the build up. And for those asking "what more could be done", I really feel that could have been made more similar to GGG in the sense that more characters could have been involved and gotten sometime to develop or touch on their characters like Spike did. For the other characters who are actually involved in the games they don't really get anything in this episode. No much in the way of follow up to what happened before or building on the previous events, just a big case of Continuity Porn.
Regardless of that I really didn't think this episode was that bad. I just felt that this one aspect was weak and was generally was a missed oppurtunity.
@Seraphem: I'm sure they could've made the sports interesting, but the question is "How do they do that while still making it relevant for the characters involved?" The only ponies who are actually competing are RD and Fluttershy, and we've already seen their event; covering them again would be redundant. I agree that more of the games should've been shown, but I don't think they could've done a whole episode focusing on it without it either being redundant or not sufficiently relevant to the cast. That's why I think that if they were going to go that route, they should've focused on SA, Cadance, and possibly Twilight as they prepare for the games.
Reaction Image Repository

A whole cut happens between an event near the beginning of the games, all the way to THE CLOSING CEREMONIES. Spike proclaims while he's packing that he hung out alone in the apartment room for MOST OF THE GAMES, and it's off-screen. Depending on how long the Games last, and if we compare it to the Olympics, Spike had been in there, and the viewers were left out of watching, for DAYS.