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My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic (Live Reactions & Discussion)

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A thread to discuss My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic and the tie-in media.

All of the usual forum rules apply. In addition, please remember that the thread is discussing a kids' show, and it's primarily focused on the work itself, not the fanfic — in particular, we don't want to see lewdness creeping in.

     Original OP text 
I don't know WHAT the Hell happened (I blame shenanigans) but we're going to start from scratch. Post your feels for this awesome show again! Naow!

Edited by Mrph1 on Aug 26th 2024 at 10:24:26 AM

Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#27326: Dec 10th 2013 at 3:11:57 PM

Wait, people didn't like the episode?

I can see it not being peoples' favorite, but this is news to me.

On FPK, I think it's kind of amusing that it's initially seen to have almost the exact opposite moral as the episode actully was displaying up until the letter.

I have a message from another time...
Luminosity Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
#27327: Dec 10th 2013 at 3:15:33 PM

I wouldn't be as enraged by FPK if it wasn't just one in the long line of trends of same episode setups. The "fuck skeptics with their scientific reasoning" thing was done by Young Justice and Ultimate Spider-Man too, for example.

Because it's convenient to have the thing your characters are being infidels about shown and thus simplifying the entire "science vs religion" thing into "they're just denialist fuckheads".

marston Since: Sep, 2011
#27328: Dec 10th 2013 at 3:16:06 PM

I honestly don't find Daring Do being real to be a big issue. I mean hello, this is the same series where dragons grow gigantic thanks to being greedy, Twilight get's a brother out of nowhere who was never implied to exist before his introduction despite 50 episodes where he could have been mentioned before, the moon can be pulled down to the earth {Or whatever you call the planet that Equestria is on}, and having a ton of stuff fall on top of you just causes injuries instead of killing you. I don't think it's that big of a stretch to see that a in-universe fictional character and her adventures are real alongside the fact that she publishes them.

edited 10th Dec '13 3:19:46 PM by marston

storyyeller More like giant cherries from Appleloosa Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
More like giant cherries
#27329: Dec 10th 2013 at 3:18:24 PM

Because of just how freaking bad it was.

Kind of ironic since the main complaint of MMDW is that it doesn't fit with the setting, something that Daring Do is just as bad about. Or are you one of the ones complaining about MMDW because of how RD/the mane 5 acted?

For what it's worth, I think MMDW is better than Daring Don't. But then again I actually liked MMDW.

How many fictnal characters have fought Hitler?

First off, the vast majority of fictional characters are not based on real people. And you could just as easily argue the opposite effect with stuff like Abraham Lincoln Vampire Slayer. But Twilight gave no indication of beleiving Ahuizotl was real anyway.

Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#27330: Dec 10th 2013 at 3:20:01 PM

Actually, Twilight really wasn't operating under the scientific method in that episode. I though that was the point. She refused to accept that something that didn't fit her current model was there, so she was actively looking for stuff to disprove it and ignoring evidence that didn't fit what she was looking for.

In other words, she was acting on blind faith.

In the end, she realized there was enough evidence to the contrary that the right thing to do is to revise her model. Which is how science works.

Not so much "Science vs religion" so much as "don't be stubborn", I think?

I totally agree that the writing was mishandled, since so many people made and still make that mistake.

edited 10th Dec '13 3:24:37 PM by Enlong

I have a message from another time...
darkabomination Since: Mar, 2012
#27331: Dec 10th 2013 at 3:21:17 PM

@Mars, agreed.

From what I've heard from some comments, a lot of people don't like the episode because Twilight Velvet wasn't the author, even though that was pure fanon. Why should that be any different from say, the pre season 2 Luna fanon?

Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#27332: Dec 10th 2013 at 3:23:53 PM

Also gotta agree with Mars, it's kinda odd trying to find the logic in Daring Do's situation when everything else in the MLP universe is very off-kilter logic wise.

I guess it's just a case of forgetting the MST3K Mantra.

edited 10th Dec '13 3:24:44 PM by Rinsankajugin

Luminosity Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
#27333: Dec 10th 2013 at 3:24:34 PM

[up][up][up] What she did in the end is give up on trying to figure out how the mysterious thing in front of her works and just accept it. I don't think that's scientific method. Ok, she'd overcome her denial on the thing even existing, but just giving up on it? That's not science.

This episode blatantly enforced blind faith on her. Just like every other episode of that archetype.

edited 10th Dec '13 3:24:40 PM by Luminosity

Sereg Since: Jun, 2010
#27334: Dec 10th 2013 at 3:26:49 PM

First off, the vast majority of fictional characters are not based on real people.

Never claimed they were. Just that there are many fictional works featuring portrayels of real people.

And you could just as easily argue the opposite effect with stuff like Abraham Lincoln Vampire Slayer.

That's a related phenomenon. One that supports what I'm saying. Not the opposite phenomenon.

ie. Fiction includes plenty of portrayels of real people and has them fight purely fictional individuals, so the phenomenon shouldn't surprise us.

But Twilight gave no indication of beleiving Ahuizotl was real anyway.

She also gave no indication that she believed he wasn't real. Absense of evidence isn't evidence of absence. You're criticising the episode due to an assumption for which there is no evidence.

edited 10th Dec '13 3:28:13 PM by Sereg

KuroiTsubasaTenshi Streamer from Twitch Since: May, 2011
Streamer
#27335: Dec 10th 2013 at 3:28:31 PM

Dark: There was a little one-off plaque in the comics that seemed to imply that, but, of course, that was a single panel and only in comic canon. Still, it would explain where they got the notion.

FE: New Mystery Only Feet 7PM PT Sun, Mon, Fri; Umamusume Haru Arima 7PM PT Wed, Thurs: http://www.twitch.tv/kuroitsubasatenshi
storyyeller More like giant cherries from Appleloosa Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
More like giant cherries
#27336: Dec 10th 2013 at 3:29:47 PM

Actually, Twilight really wasn't operating under the scientific method in that episode. I though that was the point. She refused to accept that something that didn't fit her current model was there, so she was actively looking for stuff to disprove it and ignoring evidence that didn't fit what she was looking for.

True but the episode did a bad job of making that come across. Same with the badly stated moral.

Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play
Enlong Court Dragon from The Underground Facility Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Court Dragon
#27337: Dec 10th 2013 at 3:30:46 PM

[up][up][up] If you say so.

I mean, I figure it's a worse case of blind faith to deny something that's visible and repeatable, and I could mention something about writer intent vs. mistakes in the script, but I can see this is a hole with no bottom, so I'll back off now.

edited 10th Dec '13 3:31:00 PM by Enlong

I have a message from another time...
Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#27338: Dec 10th 2013 at 3:31:50 PM

So are we still trying to find logic behind this? I know we're tropers and all, but after a while, wouldn't this back-and-forth argument just lead to stress? We just gotta remind ourselves that the next episode is in a few days. Maybe find some speculation in that or something.

storyyeller More like giant cherries from Appleloosa Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
More like giant cherries
#27339: Dec 10th 2013 at 3:40:53 PM

Also gotta agree with Mars, it's kinda odd trying to find the logic in Daring Do's situation when everything else in the MLP universe is very off-kilter logic wise

This is one of the most off kilter things there that is also major enough that it can't be ignored.

Never claimed they were. Just that there are many fictional works featuring portrayels of real people. Fiction includes plenty of portrayels of real people and has them fight purely fictional individuals, so the phenomenon shouldn't surprise us. She also gave no indication that she believed he wasn't real. Absense of evidence isn't evidence of absence. You're criticising the episode due to an assumption for which there is no evidence.

What matters is not what is possible but what is probable. And your theories seem to be getting more and more improbable.

Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play
Sereg Since: Jun, 2010
#27340: Dec 10th 2013 at 3:41:54 PM

I just think is silly to criticise something due to basless assumptions. That is the kind of thing that the pro-science ouldn't do.

EDIT:[up]My hypotheses haven't chaged since I saw the episode. And I see nothing improbable about them. It's a well-known real-world phenomenon. Even if they were improbable, this is fiction. The laws of probability are different for it.

edited 10th Dec '13 3:45:11 PM by Sereg

darkabomination Since: Mar, 2012
#27341: Dec 10th 2013 at 3:43:42 PM

Yeah, not everypony likes the episode, and that's fine. But debating ad nauseum won't change any opinions, we've tired out this pony.

storyyeller More like giant cherries from Appleloosa Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
More like giant cherries
#27342: Dec 10th 2013 at 3:45:34 PM

It's not baseless. I'm going by what seems to best be supported by canon evidence. The problem here is that there aren't any good explanations because this is one of those places where the show is not self consistent. The best explanation I can come up with is that they crossed a portal to a different world on the way to Daring's house, and even that doesn't make much sense.

Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play
Luminosity Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
#27343: Dec 10th 2013 at 3:47:26 PM

[up][up][up]

Seriously? Improbable? In our world, we have fiction about Vlad Tepes being a blood-sucking monster, Imhotep as a monstrous mummy, Xerxes employing giant ogres and Blackbeard employing zombies, and Hitler in a fucking mecha sult.

And many of them defeated by completely fictional heroes. What is so improbable about this?

Hell, in the show itself, ponies have the facts about villains completely wrong and think Nightmare Moon eats ponies for not giving her candy.

edited 10th Dec '13 3:47:41 PM by Luminosity

Sereg Since: Jun, 2010
#27344: Dec 10th 2013 at 3:57:02 PM

It's not baseless.

Yes, it is. You have just decided that Ahuizotl is unkown. Why? Because.

I'm going by what seems to best be supported by canon evidence.

No. I'm going by what's supported by canon evidence. You are deciding that the canon doesn't make sense becasue it doesn't fit your assumptions.

The problem here is that there aren't any good explanations because this is one of those places where the show is not self consistent.

It's more consistent than the real world for goodness sake!

The best explanation I can come up with is that they crossed a portal to a different world on the way to Daring's house, and even that doesn't make much sense.

And now you're either being ridiculous, or seriously buying into the kind of stuff sprouted by The Chaty One.

Also, what Luminosity said.

JapaneseTeeth Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing from Meinong's jungle Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing
#27345: Dec 10th 2013 at 3:58:28 PM

Yeah, I think this argument isn't going anywhere. I should qualify that I like the episode, I just think it needed some smoothing.

As for FPK I can see why people interpret it as "science is bad", but I think it's just a case of botched writing rather than the authors intending to be anti-science. Especially because Twilight was kind of being a lousy scientist in assuming her own viewpoint was correct and using that as a baseline rather than being open to the fact that Pinkie Sense might be an actual phenomena. Her issue wasn't that she was being scientific, it was that she wasn't doing a good job of being scientific.

[up]My stance is currently that we don't know enough about the Daring Do books and the setting for us to really make an argument about whether or not it's feasible for characters to be aware of them. I personally think it's a stretch to say that nopony knows about it due to how close in proximity to Equestria the story takes place, but that's just my interpretation of it.

edited 10th Dec '13 4:00:10 PM by JapaneseTeeth

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Rinsankajugin Since: Feb, 2012
#27346: Dec 10th 2013 at 4:03:09 PM

Bets: Will Scoots fly or will she not? More on this Saturday...

KylerThatch literary masochist Since: Jan, 2001
literary masochist
#27347: Dec 10th 2013 at 4:06:19 PM

Random thought: You know the WMG where Scootaloo is an orphan?

Except Apple Bloom is the one with debatable-but-very-heavily-implied dead parents.

Or does that not count because of Granny Smith?

This "faculty lot" you speak of sounds like a place of great power...
Luminosity Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
#27348: Dec 10th 2013 at 4:07:41 PM

[up][up][up] The problems is that people think the ponies will immediately always jump to the "everything in Daring Do books is true" conclusion if they discover villains or places featured in the books.

This is NOT the case with fiction featuring real people or places. Many things are misunderstood, exaggerated, flatout gotten wrong, or used for fantasy purposes. Bram Stoker didn't think Vlad Tepes drank blood, but he did think Vlad Tepes drinking blood would make a cool villain.

All these possibilities are supposed to be discarded just because we, the omniscent audience, know the truth. That's as unrealistic as a banana on a jetpack fighting crime.

Like we think Caligula was a clopper, but we only know that because people wrote about him being a clopper, for all we know they could have just been his political opponents doing a typical "Obama is Satan" smear campaign. The only people knowing the truth are the people of their time peroid, and just because they knew = we're supposed to know too?

edited 10th Dec '13 4:07:52 PM by Luminosity

JapaneseTeeth Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing from Meinong's jungle Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Mu
Existence Weighed Against Nonbeing
#27349: Dec 10th 2013 at 4:08:02 PM

Apple Bloom is technically an orphan, but she still has a solid family that means she avoids most of the stereotypes associated with that type of character.

On a side note, I kinda like the idea of Scootaloo being the oldest child in her family, if only to contrast with Sweetie and Apple Bloom, who are both the youngest.

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Seraphem Since: Oct, 2009
#27350: Dec 10th 2013 at 4:09:37 PM

Yeah FPK, the IDEA they were going for was great and fine. They just horribly horribly botched the delivery of it to make it come off as something they didn't intend.

Daring. Again I see no way that any of this doesn't fit in perfectly well with the setting hat already has so many fantastical elements. And it's s simple fact that it is not that well known to be real, and therefore there is a legitimate reason for that.


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