A thread to discuss My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic and the tie-in media.
All of the usual forum rules
apply. In addition, please remember that the thread is discussing a kids' show, and it's primarily focused on the work itself, not the fanfic — in particular, we don't want to see lewdness creeping in.
Edited by Mrph1 on Aug 26th 2024 at 10:24:26 AM
I did say "could be" because the story doesn't tell us either way, not that I actually think it. But given how The Crystalling frames it, I see no reason to think the Frozen North isn't an impressive, dangerous thing. Maybe not all-encompassing, but vast enough to where I don't think Celestia is a loser for not being able to stop it.
Edited by GNinja on Apr 27th 2020 at 7:43:56 PM
Kaze ni Nare!
"Celestia not being able to beat theat" is hardly a high bar. It may have been if she did anything but lose to every single major threat and getting reduced to a Damsel in Distress who at most can hand out advice every single time and that bar falls deep and low.
Everyone lost to the Frozen North. It couldn't even be beaten without fixing the Crystal Heart. And Celestia helped with that in the end.
The cast aren't really much more competent than Celestia is. They just have the benefit of narrative convenience and wielding the power of Harmonious WM Ds.
Few of the things Celestia ever lost to are things that other characters could simply beat in straight combat.
Edited by GNinja on Apr 27th 2020 at 9:11:07 AM
Kaze ni Nare!Celestia moving the Sun IS what is happening in the show. No writer perception necessary. Celestia being worfed is litterally incapable of being evidence. A > B does not tell you the absolute value of B. It does not provide any evidence at all that B < C. If you can destroy galactic superclusters with your mind, you are still useless in a fight against Azathoth, so Azathoth beating you doesn't provide any evidence that you can't destroy galactic superclusters.
Ajimu from Medaka Box is a great example of this. The series is full of characters that are ridiculously HAX. Ajimu has almost 14 quadrillion powers, including universe creation, omnipresence, universal reality warping, time travel, etc. (We know 800 of them). There are also multiple characters arguably more powerful than she is. One of them sliced her in half with a rubber band. This is a huge joke on the part of people who dislike her and want to pretend she's weaker than she is, but it doesn't make her any weaker, because attacks by that character are ridiculously broken and among other things, completely ignore durability. In addition, he happens to exploit her biggest weakness.
When using a worfing to claim a character is less powerful than previously demonstrated, you are making the logical fallacy equivalent to saying "He can't lift a car, so those times he lifted a pencil are a lie and he can't actually do that."
Basically:
Celestia cannot defeat X.
Therefore Celestia cannot lift the Sun
Is not a logical conclusion. It would only be one of lifting the Sun is harder to do than to defeat X. And there is zero evidence of that.
Also, again, the bias against magic is ridiculous. If someone uses magic to accomplish something and someone else uses another method, in both cases, it remains equally accomplished.
Claiming "Doctor Strange cannot beat Y because he uses spells" is ridiculous.
As for the specificity, again, AKR calls it telekinetic brute force. There is even evidence of this. Others can do it too, even though Twilight claims in Season one that unicorns can only cast spells related to their special talent. And it is not just any unicorns, but the most powerful ones. Pretty big coincidence if they all have special talents that allow this. What's more, Celestia and Luna can lift each others' celestial bodies. In addition, the comics show that Luna really struggles to lift the Sun while Celestia does not struggle to lift the moon. (Incidentally, the comics confirm it is a round planet and that the distance to the moon is large relative to the size of the planet, as you would expect from the real moon. What's more, the comics confirm that Celestia and Luna don't even NEED to use magic to move the moon. They can drag it out of orbit with their physical muscles! It also shows them flying at low relativistic speeds.)
Comics aren't 100% reliable tho. They're not really canon to the show for the most part except for a few overlaps
The comics are not 100% canon, that is true. However, it means that kind of power is canon for the comic version Celestia. What's more, the comic writers did communicate with the show writers a lot at the start and that was an early arc. That indicates that that kind of view of Celestia was at least not abnormal among the higher ups.
In addition, that only addresses a small part of my argument. Most of it still holds.
EDIT: And G Ninja has a point. How many of the things that have beaten Celestia are things that a member of the Mane Six could have beaten without help?
Edited by Sereg on Apr 27th 2020 at 6:48:10 AM
Magic. Spells. Do. Not. Obey. Physics.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.Looks, we've had this debate more times than I can count. Sereg has a weird headcanon, but there's no point in trying to convince him to change it.
Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's PlayMoving on. That's a good point on the cast being incompetent in general.
Hell even out of the villains Tirek is the only one of them with any remote common sense.
Prettiest Meta Knight Gijinka, ngl~G Ninja, what do you think about the villains of this series? Do they fit your standards?
Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.I think his position is that MLP is a genre where his usual criteria don't apply.
Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's PlayWell, I recognized one of the POT Ds where he called Chrysalis "the dumbest true villain" since Discord isn't a villain and Sombra's dead. So I was curious.
Edited by fredhot16 on Apr 27th 2020 at 10:10:44 AM
Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.I think Sereg’s position is more that all of the planet Equestria is roughly in the ball park of moving a star about.
Likely, if a human appeared on the planet, they’d be immediately squashed by its immense gravity. If the Cutie Mark Crusaders appeared in MCU, they’d be accidental Avenger level threats as their immense KryptonianEquestrian Power Incontinence causes possibly world shaking issues and tree sap. The Imperium Of Man steps lightly around this strange and terrifying xeno homeworld, glad that the dominant species there is simply ‘’uninterested’’ in space travel.
I disagree on the premise that I find that silly.
@God of Awesome: I wouldn't quite go that far, but that's the general idea.
The thing is, I don't see it as headcanon, but what is litterally on screen.
Besides, I don't see how it is "weird headcanon" when there are actual writers of the show and comics who agree. What's more, again, there are sites who are usually very conservative with power estimates who still acknowledge Celestia as galaxy tier.
Again, comic!Celestia is moon level just with her muscles, nevermind her magic.
We also not only have Word of God but data from the show itself confirming that lifting the Sun is telekinetic strength, not a specific spell. Twilight confirms that specific spells can only be cast by special unicorns while we see that lifting the Sun can be done by anyone strong enough. This is told to us in the show.
Spells not obeying the laws of physics is irrelevant. Only the effect is relevant. We know Celestia can create effects of that magnitude. Assuming she can only do that is arbitrary and illogical. We are well aware that she knows multiple spells. And again, muscles obey the laws of physics and she is already moon level with those.
Even if we assume it is a specific spell, the spell Hasbro owns that create the most similar effect is Nailed To The Sky from Dn D. Not only is it way less powerful (it teleports someone into low Earth orbit, which is far too close), it is an epic spell from 3rd edition. If you can cast epic spells in 3rd edition Dn D, you can basically create any effect you want in about 12 seconds. You have practical omnipotence even if you don't have true omnipotence. So yeah. If she's casting Nailed To The Sky, she is actually way more powerful than I claim.
As for how silly it is, well that's subjective, but there are plenty of things I find silly, even in this cartoon. I still acknowledge that they are the truth. For example, I consider it silly that the Elements can be used by a single pony and despise that fact, but that is the way they canonically work. (They don't work that way in my fanverse, but that's because I had planned that before the reveal)
EDIT: https://outskirtsbattledomewiki.com/index.php/8-character-profiles/5586-princess-celestia
Edited by Sereg on Apr 28th 2020 at 10:01:45 AM
Post of the Day #2863
Posted by Wryte on 26th Dec 2016 11:11:49 AM - Post #166937 in the new thread
Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play
“Vs Battles”.
Oh, fuck that nonsense. A site that claims that Link’s a planet-buster, Sepiroth can annihilate a galaxy, and Adachi has Universal-level power is worse then nothing.
Let’s bury this subject, shall we?
Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.I disagree with them in general. I was just saying that even those I disagree with agree with me on this.
Also, I don't know enough about those characters, but looking up Sephiroth and Adachi there has them listed as much weaker than that.
It's just that I find it ridiculous to believe someone cannot do something we have litterally watched them do. That is how I feel about this debate.
Still. I can drop it if people want.
Vs Battle wiki also puts Grand King Ghidorah and Mothra Leo below Heisei King Ghidorah.
Some of it's calculations are good, but others do feel more based on hype than feats
Prettiest Meta Knight Gijinka, ngl

Edited by GNinja on Apr 27th 2020 at 7:34:12 PM
Kaze ni Nare!