A thread to discuss My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic and the tie-in media.
All of the usual forum rules
apply. In addition, please remember that the thread is discussing a kids' show, and it's primarily focused on the work itself, not the fanfic — in particular, we don't want to see lewdness creeping in.
Edited by Mrph1 on Aug 26th 2024 at 10:24:26 AM
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I mean, if your basis is Luna and Celestia being another pony species, maybe you could presume a family connection with Cadenza.
I mean, you could also presume Cadenza is another random Royal Whatever with no connection beyond being the same species.
Not much basis for either, honestly. Cadenza is a riddle wrapped in an enigma wrapped in whatever.
Is Cadenza even in the royal family? Again, nothing's really insinuated she had any connection with the Royal Sisters.
Heck, she was a foalsitter for Sparkles, who was not Celestia's student at the moment. Where exactly could she be on the hierarchy?
Anyway, quite a coinkydink we're conversing about Cadenza because I'm seeing "The Crystalling" today.
Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.I think you are underestimating how simple the reasoning of fandom often is. Just as with shipping, sometimes two people simply being in the same scene, maybe sharing a half glance in the background, can be enough for someone to construct a relationship around, so it is with family relationships for those who do not have canon family.
And yes, alicorns are certainly a different species. Hence the commotion when a new alicorn was born: this hadn't happened in a long time. So yes, it is at least plausible to suppose a family connection between Cadence and Celestia/Luna, since there simply are no other alicorns to connect to her.
Hope shines brightest in the darkest times![]()
Was all this before Sparkles became a Princess?
Because "Cadenza had no connection to the Royal Sisters, she became an Alicorn and Celestia thought it was cool so she's now an honorary cousin or whatever" might solve problems.
Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.![]()
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Considering the wording in "The Crystaling", I'd say no one has ever heard of an alicorn birth before. Either Cadance is just lucky, there's something about Shining's genes, or no alicorn has given birth to an alicorn before. I wouldn't assume that no alicorn has given birth, because no one seemed surprised about her pregnancy.
Edited by Pichu-kun on Jun 26th 2019 at 11:45:47 AM
Well, I guess we will just have to accept that sometimes things on this show are vague and ambiguous, not to say contradictory, and there really is no satisfactory answer to your question. The question of who Cadence is related to is one of those. We will just never know, unless the last half of the last season suddenly decides to answer that, but I doubt it.
Hope shines brightest in the darkest timesCadance's book outright stated she was an orphaned pegasus, taken in by a kindly earth pony couple.
The powerful play goes on, and you may contribute a verse.Books are generally given more leeway in such things. Writers of books and comics have greater creative freedoms because it often involves a single author creating the work, whereas with TV shows like this one, there are many writers who are watched over by studio executives, who often care more about profits and ratings, and are hesitant to stir the pot with such radical things as lesbians, dead parents, orphans, and the like.
Hope shines brightest in the darkest timesCadance being Celestia's niece was stated in some of the synopsis for A Canterlot Wedding way back when, and explicitely stated as such in the merch surrounding the wedding.
Then, after season 3, came out the Crystal Heart Spell book where the full backstory was revealed. Cadance was a pegasus orphan who was taken in by an earth pony village, confronted a sorceress with love magic, and was ascended and adopted by Celestia because of her acts of bravery.
The reason their relationship is Aunt and Niece is probably because Celestia aknowledges that she was raised by the earth ponies (I don't think they ever detail who took her in specifically).
And yes, because this is one of the earlier companion books, there's several details in it that would end up proven untrue by future episodes, specifically stuff surrounding Gilda who's a minor antagonist. Curiously, the book depicted Trixie still harborning a grudge against Twilight, which wound up becoming canon in season 6 despite the S3 redemption at the time suggesting otherwise to the fandom.
So while the book provides some context that is probably considered canon internally for the show (as the whole thing with Flurry Heart would suggest), there's still a lot of mystery about who Cadance is, specially when you factor the eponymous Crystal Heart and its connections to the Crystal Empire and Princess Amore.
Edited by MrSeyker on Jun 26th 2019 at 6:02:03 AM
I wish the series had done a backstory episode on Cadance or at least referenced her past. Most fans, even little girls, probably aren't going to pick up that book, so it stumps people. Celestia and Luna can keep their Mysterious Past but Cadance's shouldn't be so vague.
Yeah, it's really bizarre how Cadance ends up the most mysterious of the three Alicorns just because her backstory doesn't hold importance to the background lore.
We know nothing about Celestia and Luna's origins (and by extension just what the hell Alicorns are), but we do know at least some details of their 1000 years old past.
There's an entire secret history behind Cadance and the Crystal Empire that's just barely been hinted at in supplementary material, and not a peep of it exists in the show.
EDIT: This makes me wonder, would all this make Cadance a candidate for an entry in the Mysterious Past trope? It does mentions the equally mysterious Sombra. Really, without picking up details from supplementary material, everything connected to the Crystal Empire is just one giant question mark.
Edited by MrSeyker on Jun 26th 2019 at 6:30:15 AM
That's probably third in my lists of wants for the final season, first being Sunset showing up on the pony side of the franchise (even just a meager mention or background cameo would suffice), second being an episode focusing on the Mane 6 parents (particularly Rarity and Fluttershy's parents, as they got the short end of the stick in terms of introduction).
Not holding my breath, tho.
I think you are underestimating how simple the reasoning of fandom often is. Just as with shipping, sometimes two people simply being in the same scene, maybe sharing a half glance in the background, can be enough for someone to construct a relationship around
Reminds me of how Octavia was assumed to be a Pie sister just because she was gray. (At least, this is the story I heard about why Octavia became hugely popular in the fandom while none of the other band ponies did)
This makes me wonder, would all this make Cadance a candidate for an entry in the Mysterious Past trope?
I think that only counts if it was intentional, not just because the writers didn't bother to think up a backstory. Otherwise, every random side character would qualify.
Edited by storyyeller on Jun 26th 2019 at 9:38:24 AM
Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's PlayOctavia blowing up like she did is pretty simple, actually. She stands out and has a scene where the camera focuses on her.
Her darker hair/mane colors and purple accents make her eye catching among the more colorful bandmates and backgrounds. Also, she's a pretty mare (there's another mare on the band but her design doesn't stand out, looking kinda plain next to Octavia). And then there's her elegant classical musician act. Combine that with the appearance at the end of the episode of also-soon-to-blow-up Vinyl.
If it involves music, the fandom will be drawn to Octavia and Vinyl and their contrasting styles. Fanart and fanfic will take care of the rest.
That people could also make connections to Pinkie's then unnamed grey sister was just piling up even more on the character's potential.
Edited by MrSeyker on Jun 26th 2019 at 7:02:25 AM
Combine that with the appearance at the end of the episode of also-soon-to-blow-up Vinyl.
Actually, Octavia and Vinyl never appeared together in season 1. Vinyl briefly appears in Suited For Success (episode 14) while Octavia appears in Best Night Ever (episode 26). The fact that they later reappeared is a result of fandom popularity, not the cause of it.
Also note that Vinyl already "blew up" before Octavia ever appeared, since her episode came first. Kegisak notably wrote a pre-BNE fanfic where Vinyl is paired with a completely different pony.
Edited by storyyeller on Jun 26th 2019 at 10:58:22 AM
Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's PlayHuh, had my appearances completely messed up. Forgot Vinyl had shown up before in the season AND misplaced her appearance at the end of Canterlot Wedding with having taken place during Best Night Ever.
Still, it's very easy to see why they blew up like they did.
TBH, I never experienced a whole lot of Octavia is Pinkie's sister fanon in those days.
The most solid memory of it I can come up with is of a short comic acting as sequel to Pinkie's story of her cutie mark, and even that one is very faint.
I think tvtropes might have had a hand in me even being aware it was a thing.
Wonder if it was more prevalent on the fanfiction side of the fandom, which I always interacted little with.
I remember before Vinyl/Octavia became as popular as it is, Luna/Octavia was a semi-popular Theme Pairing. Claro de Luna was one of my earliest fanfics in the fandom and it left it's effect on my headcanon (but sadly I've never seen another mute!Octavia fic).
Octavia as Pinkie's sister seemed niche, like the "Rarity is Sweetie's mom" theory but taken even less seriously. It was popular enough because it created stories, but I don't think most actually saw it as canon. Octavia was too different looking from the foal and Pinkie didn't notice her as her sister at the gala. I have seen derivative works where Octavia is a cousin of Pinkie's, which is slightly more probable. I prefer her as Lyra's sister, though.
Edited by Pichu-kun on Jun 27th 2019 at 7:38:37 AM
Sweetie Belle being Rarity's daughter would have been an interesting angle, to be sure.
A question MLP never answered about these two is why Rarity seems to be the one parenting her sister, when their parents are still around. This show has a knack for (surrogate) sisters taking care of younger siblings instead of their parents, who are either dead or chronically absent, doesn't it?
Hope shines brightest in the darkest timesPost of the Day #2559
Posted by marston on 19th Apr 2016 08:40:30 PM - Post #152355 in the new thread
Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play

I coulda sworn the book about how Cadance got alicornified explicitly said she was adopted as Celestia's niece. Nothing in the show ever mentions it, but I'm pretty sure that book does.
The powerful play goes on, and you may contribute a verse.