Follow TV Tropes

Following

My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic (Live Reactions & Discussion)

Go To

TobiasDrake Queen of Good Things, Honest (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
Queen of Good Things, Honest
#188951: Oct 11th 2018 at 7:26:21 AM

There is no likely relationship between the ancient shield fable and Autumn Blaze's story. Just like how there's little connection between the Hearth's Warming fable and modern-day Cloudsdale. Over a thousand years is a long time for history to occur in.

The shield depicted the nirik as terrifying beasts for the same reason that the kirin consider the nirik to be terrifying beasts: because the nirik are terrifying beasts. They were no less terrifying a thousand years ago than they are today. They're the result of anger running wild. They're basically kirin Hulk-Outs.

But, as demonstrated, anger can be controlled.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Oct 11th 2018 at 8:27:54 AM

My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#188952: Oct 11th 2018 at 7:59:40 AM

Like I mentioned before, it does create the odd logic gap that the Kirin are only NOW, after a thousand years, starting to notice the negative consequences of their fights and the Nirik. It's as if their society waited a thousand years to have a problem to be solved by the Mane Six.

The shield suggests that they have been like this for a thousand years, but the story treats it as if the Nirik were only created recently. There is no explanation of why the Kirin were apparently perfectly fine with turning into fire beasts for a thousand years, and only NOW suddenly decide that this is a problem.

Optimism is a duty.
storyyeller More like giant cherries from Appleloosa Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
More like giant cherries
#188953: Oct 11th 2018 at 8:05:18 AM

It seems like the writers don't pay much attention to timelines either. It's weird.

Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play
KuroiTsubasaTenshi Streamer from Twitch Since: May, 2011
Streamer
#188954: Oct 11th 2018 at 9:30:34 AM

Could be that they had the argument and took the vow long ago and it's sort of worked out for them. But, as time went on, there were regrets and it was likely no one wanted to try to upset the status quo because who wants to be the one to suggest they risk burning down the village again? That's where they needed a little shove to get out of their complacency zone.

FE:3H Maddening Banes Only 7PM PT Sun, Mon, Fri; Valkyria Chronicles 4 7PM PT Wed, Thurs: http://www.twitch.tv/kuroitsubasatenshi
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#188955: Oct 11th 2018 at 9:57:20 AM

But that doesn't make sense when the new character was there for the argument. Unless Kirin can live for hundreds of years.

Optimism is a duty.
KuroiTsubasaTenshi Streamer from Twitch Since: May, 2011
Streamer
#188956: Oct 11th 2018 at 11:00:21 AM

Well, Kirin (and many other mythical-tier species in the show) are traditionally very long lived and it hasn't given us a solid reason to believe that they deviate from that, so...

FE:3H Maddening Banes Only 7PM PT Sun, Mon, Fri; Valkyria Chronicles 4 7PM PT Wed, Thurs: http://www.twitch.tv/kuroitsubasatenshi
KylerThatch literary masochist Since: Jan, 2001
literary masochist
#188957: Oct 11th 2018 at 12:43:02 PM

The shield, by itself, only indicates that the Nirik existed as a counterpart to the Kirin. It didn't even particularly show that they were one and the same, let alone tell the specific story involving a magically-enforced vow of silence.

Thinking about it some more (because this episode is apparently on my mind a lot since I saw it), the notion of this story spanning all the way back to Rockhoof's time is sounding less and less likely. If this society really spent over a millennium being unable and unwilling to speak, I would have to imagine it would take months or even years of re-learning and re-training how to make sounds that can be recognized as words and sentences. But the worst case we see is Autumn Blaze stumbling over pronunciation, and the other Kirin seem to pick up speaking pretty much immediately. That, to me, suggests a much shorter timeframe.

This "faculty lot" you speak of sounds like a place of great power...
TobiasDrake Queen of Good Things, Honest (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
Queen of Good Things, Honest
#188958: Oct 11th 2018 at 12:53:06 PM

The burning of the village was probably just too far.

Have you ever played a game where there was a problem and everyone knew it was a problem but it wasn't a big enough deal to actually patch? And then one day, someone figures out an exploit that uses that problem to break the game? And only then are the developers like, "HOLY SHIT, this is a big deal, we need to do something NOW"?

Or, like, a real-world thing happens and it's such a huge thing that suddenly everyone cares about a cause that managed to go decades or even centuries without a ruckus?

It's like that. The kirin have been turning into niriks for over a thousand years, but they never had a huge argument where all of the kirin went nirik at once and the whole village burned down. But then they did, and they were like, "Wow, this normal thing is actually THE WORST THING EVER and we need to take drastic action now to make sure THIS NEVER HAPPENS AGAIN."

Edited by TobiasDrake on Oct 11th 2018 at 1:54:31 PM

My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.
KuroiTsubasaTenshi Streamer from Twitch Since: May, 2011
Streamer
#188959: Oct 11th 2018 at 12:53:22 PM

[up]x2 Maybe. On the other hand, near-instant return of proficiency is a really common media trope. The fact that Autumn Blaze has issues at all is pretty notable.

Edited by KuroiTsubasaTenshi on Oct 11th 2018 at 1:53:44 PM

FE:3H Maddening Banes Only 7PM PT Sun, Mon, Fri; Valkyria Chronicles 4 7PM PT Wed, Thurs: http://www.twitch.tv/kuroitsubasatenshi
TobiasDrake Queen of Good Things, Honest (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
Queen of Good Things, Honest
#188960: Oct 11th 2018 at 12:54:37 PM

And then the Cutie Map was all, "Uh, no, that's not cool with my mysterious agenda. I need to take action!" And then the Map promptly sat on it for however long because the timing of sending ponies to solve problems is always totally arbitrary. There's never, like, a recent development that suddenly made this a big deal. It just sends them out whenever it can feel arsed to do so.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Oct 11th 2018 at 1:55:05 PM

My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#188961: Oct 11th 2018 at 1:07:01 PM

Indeed, there is no reason given of why the Mane Six need to fix it NOW, and not earlier.

Many of these little inconsistencies and issues stem from the writers having a cool idea, but not quite being able to fit it into the existing show. Or perhaps, in the case of Rockhoof, trying a little too hard to fit it into recent plot elements without thinking the consequences through.

Optimism is a duty.
storyyeller More like giant cherries from Appleloosa Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
More like giant cherries
#188962: Oct 12th 2018 at 6:32:16 AM

Post of the Day #2302

I agree with those who have said that Rarity brings out the best in the writers. This was another solid Rarity episode, and maybe my favorite S4 episode so far. "Generosity" is (IMO) the first really catchy and memorable song of the season. Rarity gets the best songs, too, it seems. Coco Pommel seems to be a new fan favorite. She deserves it. I hope we see more of her. My only complaint is that Surly Whatever...Button Butt...didn't get her comeuppance on-screen. Oh well. She lost, her reputation is tarnished, and she's probably nothing without her right-hoof pony, Coco. I'm aight with this.

Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play
Rytex That guy with the face from The Shadow Realm (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Married to the music
That guy with the face
#188963: Oct 12th 2018 at 7:09:00 AM

And then Coco lost her name due to copyright, and hardly ever shows up anymore.

Meanwhile, we still haven't even seen hide nor hair of Suri since then.

But yeah, that was Rarity's first episode since 2011, and it was a good one.

Qui odoratus est qui fecit.
GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#188964: Oct 12th 2018 at 12:01:03 PM

@Tobias. I think the Map's timing makes more sense when you take into account how it seems to know exactly how people will react to things. So I think it times it's calls with the mental states and upcoming actions of certain important parties.

Like, youu could say it called RD and Pinkie to Griffonstone because Gilda had just reached critical mass in how shitty she thought Griffonstone was and would be more open to changing it.

Shy and AJ were called to the Peaks because Foals Breath had only started blooming recently.

That kinda stuff.

Kaze ni Nare!
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#188965: Oct 12th 2018 at 12:06:42 PM

There was a point where I was certain that Suri was going to come back and get redeemed somehow.

Don't remember why I thought that.

This song needs more love.
TobiasDrake Queen of Good Things, Honest (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
Queen of Good Things, Honest
#188966: Oct 12th 2018 at 12:22:34 PM

Slice of Life villains often don't get redeemed. If you committed actual crimes, you get forgiven and embark on a quest to ultimately become a good person. If you're just a shitty person, then you get a pie in the face at the end of the episode and then you go on being shitty to people for the rest of your life.

Sometimes you don't even get the pie in the face and are just allowed to leave without consequence, like Iron Will's hilarious escape from "Once Upon a Zeppelin".

@Tobias. I think the Map's timing makes more sense when you take into account how it seems to know exactly how people will react to things. So I think it times it's calls with the mental states and upcoming actions of certain important parties.

Like, youu could say it called RD and Pinkie to Griffonstone because Gilda had just reached critical mass in how shitty she thought Griffonstone was and would be more open to changing it.

Shy and AJ were called to the Peaks because Foals Breath had only started blooming recently.

That kinda stuff.

And you're welcome to that headcanon. But it is something that you have to bring to the story yourself rather than something that exists within the text.

A good story should not require fans to make up their own explanations for why the events of the story are happening. With a crisis alert plot device like the Cutie Map, there should always be a clear indication of what, specifically, just happened right this second to trigger the alert.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Oct 12th 2018 at 1:29:17 PM

My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.
KuroiTsubasaTenshi Streamer from Twitch Since: May, 2011
Streamer
#188967: Oct 12th 2018 at 1:01:20 PM

Given that it's recently been shown that the Tree of Harmony kind of just dicks around being not so great at the thing it's supposedly known for, its spawn just dicking around doing whatever, whenever, makes a whole lot of sense.

FE:3H Maddening Banes Only 7PM PT Sun, Mon, Fri; Valkyria Chronicles 4 7PM PT Wed, Thurs: http://www.twitch.tv/kuroitsubasatenshi
Rytex That guy with the face from The Shadow Realm (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Married to the music
That guy with the face
#188968: Oct 12th 2018 at 1:26:56 PM

The Tree, the Castle, and Sunbutt all basically just go "Make Twilight do it" whenever something comes up. They're all perfect for each other.

Qui odoratus est qui fecit.
MrSeyker Since: Apr, 2011
#188969: Oct 12th 2018 at 4:18:17 PM

Makes sense to me. Luna and Celestia wielded the elements for many years before they fought and the mane six only entered the picture in recent years.

The now developing Harmony just picked up traits from her last element bearers.

And its why she was stingy of the pairs of mane six she picked each time. She knows their strengths and if they suit a problem that shows up on her radar.

And why only recently has began to reach outside the mane six. And why she chooses from the mane six pool of friends now.

Its also why her radar picks in increments. First locations the six know, then reaches of Equestria they never visited. Now she is reaching beyond Equestria's borders.

The tree is growing, and that growth was kickstarted when it was freed from Discord's restricting vines.

Cue Tobias coming up with elaborate headcanon of why Harmony is the ultimate evil.

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#188970: Oct 12th 2018 at 4:30:59 PM

Well, the way you say it, it DOES sound like the Tree is conquering the world. grin

Optimism is a duty.
SantosLHalper The filidh that cam frae Skye from The Canterlot of the North Since: Aug, 2009
The filidh that cam frae Skye
#188971: Oct 12th 2018 at 5:19:09 PM

In the fluff of that Warhammer homebrew of mine, the Tree is pretty much a God of Law whose plan is to take over the world through Equestria and deny it to Chaos.

Halper's Law: as the length of an online discussion of minority groups increases, the probability of "SJW" or variations being used = 1.
Demetrios Lord of the Jungle from Des Plaines, Illinois (unfortunately) Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
Lord of the Jungle
#188972: Oct 12th 2018 at 5:21:02 PM

[up][up]&[up]Well that's just prime. x_x

Heaven is a tropical rainforest.
storyyeller More like giant cherries from Appleloosa Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
More like giant cherries
#188973: Oct 12th 2018 at 6:39:18 PM

I think the Map's timing makes more sense when you take into account how it seems to know exactly how people will react to things. So I think it times it's calls with the mental states and upcoming actions of certain important parties.

The issue is that that level of omnipotence removes all agency and tension from the story.

It reminds me of a short story I read recently where there's a character (Prometheus) with that level of foresight that the main characters have to consult for help with the villain. Prometheus is imprisoned, and the characters take every precaution they could think of to avoid Prometheus pulling anything sneaky - they bring a mobile phone that is programmed to explode if more than 100 characters are typed in, and plan to wipe their memory of the encounter immediately afterwards. The plan is to force Prometheus to type in 100 characters of advice, and they swear a magically binding oath to not deviate from the plan and to wipe their memory afterwards, so anything else he says can't influence them. And Prometheus STILL finds a way to sneakily influence them into carrying out his own plan.

Edited by storyyeller on Oct 12th 2018 at 9:40:28 AM

Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play
TobiasDrake Queen of Good Things, Honest (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
Queen of Good Things, Honest
#188974: Oct 12th 2018 at 8:43:31 PM

The Tree, the Castle, and Sunbutt all basically just go "Make Twilight do it" whenever something comes up. They're all perfect for each other.

Sunbutt's actually pretty much the definitive example of how to do this right. When the show moved from Celestia as the Big Good to the Tree of Harmony, it was a narrative downgrade.

I've talked before about how her being an actual character with a personality and flaws and a capacity to be wrong is a great benefit. In this context, however, I want to talk about how she employed "Make Twilight do it".

Every conflict Celestia was involved in was a reaction to something that was either happening right now or about to happen. "Friendship is Magic" was predicated on Nightmare Moon's imminent resurrection. Now is the time when Nightmare Moon will return, thus now is the time to thwart that return.

"Return of Harmony" is a reaction to Discord being set free - which is, itself, explained to be a product of "Friendship is Magic's" events, specifically the passing of the Elements from Celestia, weakening his bonds. There is a clear line of causality both for how this happened and for why we are now dealing with it.

In "A Canterlot Wedding", the wedding itself is the big event. Chrysalis has been infiltrating Canterlot for a while without much difficulty. What throws our heroes onto a collision course with her is very specifically the wedding. This is the inciting event, the big recent occurrence that catalyzes the plot.

"The Crystal Empire"'s events occur because the Crystal Empire returned. It shows up and Celestia immediately leaps into action, bringing in Twilight and her crew to go do something about it.

With "Princess Twilight", it's the hatching of the Plunder Vines. With "Twilight's Kingdom", it's Tirek revealing himself to consume magic for the first time since his escape. Cause X happens, provoking Reaction Y. The early seasons were very good about this chain of effect.

The problem with the Cutie Map in this regard is that there is no clear Cause X to provoke Reaction Y. Reaction Y is the Cutie Map signaling a selection of ponies to go solve the problem, but there is almost never an instigating event. It's responding to pre-existing problems, some of which have lasted years or even over a thousand years without resolution, with no reason ever provided for why this apparently wasn't worth handling and/or could not be handled before now.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Oct 12th 2018 at 9:46:10 AM

My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.
storyyeller More like giant cherries from Appleloosa Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: RelationshipOutOfBoundsException: 1
More like giant cherries
#188975: Oct 12th 2018 at 10:27:29 PM

When you put it like that, it's definitely an ill considered plot device. Especially since it could be improved with only minor changes.

Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play

Total posts: 206,450
Top