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Ambiguous Name (New Alt Names crowner 10/5/2015): Mac Guffin Girl

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troacctid (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#376: Oct 26th 2015 at 2:26:04 PM

We can't really use VIP Macguffin with the current definition though.

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#377: Oct 26th 2015 at 2:27:51 PM

Because...?

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Karxrida from Eureka, the Forbidden Land Since: May, 2012 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#378: Oct 26th 2015 at 2:47:15 PM

The name has different connotations.

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#379: Oct 26th 2015 at 3:27:32 PM

The crowner indicates that people disagree with that assessment.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
troacctid (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#380: Oct 26th 2015 at 8:44:39 PM

It's not just that they have different connotations (although they do)—it's more that they are pretty much totally unrelated. Being a VIP doesn't qualify you for the trope as written, and arguably may even disqualify you from it. Rjinswand suggested the name (well, the longer version of the name) based on a misunderstanding of the trope we were discussing.

You could rewrite the trope to make the name work, but at that point you're dealing with a different trope and I'm not sure the crowner for the previous definition is still useful. And honestly, if we assume a rewrite is happening either way, I'm not sure if it even makes sense to decide on the name first—I mean, if we don't know whether the trope is going to be about hostages or not, how are we supposed to judge whether Hostage MacGuffin is an acceptable name?

edited 26th Oct '15 11:55:36 PM by troacctid

NoirGrimoir Rabid Fujoshi from San Diego, CA Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Rabid Fujoshi
#381: Oct 29th 2015 at 12:58:45 AM

Both of the current leading names seem problematic. A VIP is an important person, the point is that the person themselves isn't necessarily a VIP, they are just somehow related to or connected to a VIP. As it stands now, it sounds more like the president is the MacGuffin rather than his daughter (for example). Hostage MacGuffin is somewhat better, but I'm not convinced the character is 100% taken for hostage? Are there non-hostage instances of this at all?

Also, I agree that a definition needs to be decided on for sure before you bother with a name. That's putting the cart before the horse.

edited 29th Oct '15 1:01:53 AM by NoirGrimoir

SPATULA, Supporters of Page Altering To Urgently Lead to Amelioration (supports not going through TRS for tweaks and minor improvements.)
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#382: Oct 29th 2015 at 10:06:23 PM

It seems to me that we had a disagreement about the name (some people think VIP Mac Guffin is appropriate, others don't, etc), so we had a crowner, VIP Mac Guffin won... and the people who didn't like it in the first place are saying that the crowner is invalid, for all the same reasons they said they didn't like the name in the first place.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
NoirGrimoir Rabid Fujoshi from San Diego, CA Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Rabid Fujoshi
#383: Oct 29th 2015 at 10:10:56 PM

^The Crowner isn't closed, though.

SPATULA, Supporters of Page Altering To Urgently Lead to Amelioration (supports not going through TRS for tweaks and minor improvements.)
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
Berrenta Bejeweled (she/her) (Ten years in the joint) Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Bejeweled (she/her)
#386: Nov 15th 2015 at 8:04:34 PM

Yep, looks like it...

troacctid (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#387: Nov 16th 2015 at 8:27:46 PM

Given that the two leading options kind of indicate different tropes entirely, I think we should solidify the definition we're using and get the description in line first.

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#388: Nov 16th 2015 at 10:38:36 PM

I like how "I don't like the name at the top of the crowner so let's talk about that again" keeps coming up.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
Berrenta Bejeweled (she/her) (Ten years in the joint) Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Bejeweled (she/her)
#389: Nov 17th 2015 at 12:45:09 PM

[up][up] Looking at both names, Mac Guffin Hostage could mean a person (who is a MacGuffin) is held captive by the Big Bad, while VIP Mac Guffin could mean a high-ranking member of society who happens to be a MacGuffin.

Did I get the gist of both of these, or am I seeing it wrong? If I'm right, that means a simple rename won't do.

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#390: Nov 25th 2015 at 9:48:07 AM

Bump. Again.

So. The options are runoff, new crowner entirely, or I just go crazy, swap in all the sandboxes under their current (stupid) names, and keep from pulling any more of my hair out.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#391: Nov 28th 2015 at 7:58:18 AM

So I'm not hearing any opposition to the "Discar goes crazy and pastes in the sandboxes as-is" plan.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#392: Dec 1st 2015 at 1:30:32 PM

One more bump. Remember, these are the current sandboxes:

Any suggestions besides "just get it over with already?"

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Berrenta Bejeweled (she/her) (Ten years in the joint) Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Bejeweled (she/her)
#393: Dec 1st 2015 at 6:02:54 PM

Looking at those sandbox pages, MacGuffin-Person Reveal and Animate Mac Guffin (MacGuffin Turned Human) seem to be lacking in examples. Was Living MacGuffin checked thoroughly for examples belonging to those two subtropes?

The rest seem all right.

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#394: Dec 2nd 2015 at 11:33:09 AM

I trawled through for everything I could, but there were a lot of ZCE's that couldn't be categorized.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Berrenta Bejeweled (she/her) (Ten years in the joint) Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Bejeweled (she/her)
#395: Dec 2nd 2015 at 11:39:15 AM

Hmmm, the presence of ZCE's doesn't help. Well, if a staff member gives us the signal, we could launch those, and maybe put those low-example pages into YKTTW to build them up?

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#396: Dec 2nd 2015 at 3:11:19 PM

Already did that, actually. Got a few good examples, though not a whole lot.

I think once we're fixing all the MacGuffin Girl/Holy Child/The President's Daughter wicks, we'll find more to fill out the new tropes. Of course, there are going to be oodles of ZCE's there, too.

edited 2nd Dec '15 3:16:53 PM by Discar

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#398: Dec 12th 2015 at 1:28:50 AM

I've closed the crowner in favour of Hostage MacGuffin. Mac Guffin Hostage may make a good redirect.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#399: Dec 12th 2015 at 2:30:50 PM

All right then. We've done crowners and discussions for everything, so it looks like we're just about done. These are the tropes and sandboxes we have:

They can be swapped in immediately, at which point Holy Child, The President's Daughter, and MacGuffin Girl will all be redirected to Living MacGuffin. The wicks for all four of the old tropes will need to be combed through and changed to the new tropes as appropriate. I fully expect we're going to be getting a lot of ZCE's, but we'll do our best.

Anything else?

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.

PageAction: MacGuffinGirl
11th Sep '13 8:13:35 AM

Crown Description:

What would be the best way to fix the page?

Total posts: 412
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