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So with the recent global terrorism alert I realised that we don't have a place to discuss such events as they happen and how they are being dealt with/reacted to.

    OP text (regarding events that were recent st the time) 
First however I'd like to lay down a disclaimer, this is not a place to discuss the ethics of the "war on terror" it's for talking about current global threats, if you want to debate the ethics of the war on terror than make a thread for it, this is not the place.

So now I've done that, here's the latest as I'm aware of it. Normally I'd provide sources but I'm on my iPad so it's difficult to do so.

US embassies across the Great Middle East are closed until Saturday due to the current threat, the embassies of other western nations in Yeman have also been closed with staff being evacuated from the county.

Additionally a global travel alert has been issued for all US citizens, with US/UK citizens in Yeman being told to leave immediately.

Yeman's security services have been placing much of the country on lockdown, with the army out in force due to intelligence indicating that a large number of Al-Qa'ida operatives are in the country to work on the expected attack.

They (Yeman's security forces) have also just recently announced that they have foiled an attempt by AQ to blow up several oil pipelines and seize control of costal cities, howev they remain on high alert, so there is obviously more to come.


Mod edit:
  • As of July 2024, the OTC Israel and Palestine thread is locked indefinitely and that discussion should not migrate to other threads. Discussion of terrorism or extrajudicial activity related to either of them (including speculation about a connection to them) is banned here.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jul 28th 2024 at 12:37:25 PM

carbon-mantis Collector Of Fine Oddities from Trumpland Since: Mar, 2010 Relationship Status: Married to my murderer
Collector Of Fine Oddities
#1151: Jan 16th 2015 at 5:48:57 PM

If I recall, the Earth/Animal Liberation Fronts have a penchant for bombing farms, and abducting investigative journalists in Europe on occasion. Lately they've expanded more broadly to the so called "Green Resistance" philosophy of advocating and carrying out attacks on just about anything deemed remotely non-environmentally friendly.

edited 16th Jan '15 5:49:14 PM by carbon-mantis

AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#1152: Jan 16th 2015 at 6:09:45 PM

I heard about the Earth/Animal Liberation Group from the Animal Wrongs group page here.

Aside the Oklahoma bombings and a few others it seems that domestic terrorism in US is mainly done by people who are either too stupid to successfully carry on with their attacks or are stupid enough to get caught before they can do anything.

Inter arma enim silent leges
Ominae Since: Jul, 2010
#1153: Jan 16th 2015 at 6:58:51 PM

Singapore's got a series of article in the Strait Times with an attack on terror such as lone wolves, security and community/religious support.

DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#1154: Jan 16th 2015 at 7:58:34 PM

Yeah, to the elites, everything is part of the plan, until the market crashes and they're out on their ass. Sooner or later, that does happen. Or one of the attack dogs gets too big to control, and they get eaten. That's what Hitler was and did, after all. But never mind them, your question was how to win the narrative battle for hearts and minds. That's a tough puzzle- it would have to be an alternative to both extremism, and the West's version of Liberalism. A genuine third way. Something loosely inspired by Anarchic Theory, I suppose. Decentralize everything, oppose all centers of power, financial, religious or otherwise. Some type of localism, I would think, that avoids the nationalist trap. Rely on networks, not hierarchies, something like that. No two people are supposed to think alike- even God loves diversity. And everyone is obligated to defend everyone else from corruption, incompetence, and conformity. Or something along those lines.

That's my best attempt. Maybe someone else can come up with something better. Here's some terrorism news to keep us on topic:

Counter-terrorism Going dark: "...counter-terrorism is getting harder for three reasons.

The first is a consequence of the collapse of several Arab countries, above all the unending civil war in Syria and the rise of Islamic State (IS)...

The second is that commando-style assaults, such as the one in Paris, are easy to plan and thus hard to disrupt...

Third, Western spooks say they are losing the technological edge that has enabled them to monitor the communications of potential terrorists."

It then goes on to discuss the ethical dilemmas involved in domestic surveillance. Technology, it seems, is the answer to ensuring our safety.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#1155: Jan 17th 2015 at 1:28:31 AM

When you walk through the garden
you gotta watch your back
well I beg your pardon
walk the straight and narrow track
if you walk with Jesus
he's gonna save your soul
you gotta keep the devil
way down in the hole

he's got the fire and the fury
at his command
well you don't have to worry
if you hold on to Jesus hand
we'll all be safe from Satan
when the thunder rolls
just gotta help me keep the devil
way down in the hole

All the angels sing about Jesus' mighty sword
and they'll shield you with their wings
and keep you close to the lord
don't pay heed to temptation
for his hands are so cold
you gotta help me keep the devil
way down in the hole

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Ominae Since: Jul, 2010
#1156: Jan 17th 2015 at 4:47:46 AM

In response to the attacks, Prime Minister Orban said that immigration must end.

Analysts are criticizing the speech even if Budapest is trying to play it down.


Belgian police announced that the suspects had plans to conduct false flag ops while disguised as uniformed officers.

Otherwise, the army's called in to have a physical presence.

edited 17th Jan '15 5:08:45 AM by Ominae

Mars444 Since: May, 2013
#1157: Jan 17th 2015 at 11:45:33 AM

A 47 year old French-Moroccan man was brutally murdered in his own home by a neighbor who was shouting things about Islam. His wife also suffered defensive injuries before she managed to escape with their child to call the police.

The French need to crack down on these crimes ASAP. Further reprisal killings and lesser Islamophobic crimes are just going to further inflame the situation.

Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#1158: Jan 17th 2015 at 12:18:28 PM

Submitted to the thread without comment.

Meanwhile, the French president, François Hollande, said on Saturday that France was committed to freedom of expression after violence erupted for the second day in Niger at a rally protesting against Charlie Hebdo. The magazine’s first issue since last week’s attacks features a drawing of the prophet Muhammad on the cover, in a decision that has angered Muslims around the world.

“I’m thinking of countries where sometimes they don’t understand what freedom of expression is because they have been deprived of it. But also, we have supported these countries in their fight against terrorism,” Hollande said during a visit to a market in Tulle, central France.

Asked about protesters who burned the French flag, the president added: “They have to be punished because when it happens in France, it’s intolerable but also abroad.”

What's precedent ever done for us?
BestOf FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC! from Finland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
#1159: Jan 17th 2015 at 12:31:20 PM

Someone should show him those statements and underline the bits about burning flags and freedom of speech. You absolutely can't ban the burning of a flag if you're going to claim to support freedom of speech.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#1160: Jan 17th 2015 at 1:03:57 PM

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/2015/01/anti-charlie-hebdo-protests-continue-niger-201511713419402348.html

Aaaaaaand there goes all the doubt from from where and how Boko Haram gets all its support.

Inter arma enim silent leges
Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#1161: Jan 17th 2015 at 1:08:45 PM

Do bear in mind that France also stomped on Dieudonne for defending terrorism after the Charlie Hebdo incident. Now, Dieudonne's a nasty bastard with way too many links to European Nazi movements, but given some of the shit CH pulled, it does make it look rather like only certain kinds of offensive speech aimed at certain targets are acceptable and celebrated at the moment.

What's precedent ever done for us?
Quag15 Since: Mar, 2012
#1162: Jan 17th 2015 at 1:26:06 PM

We Are All...Fill in the Blank, by Noam Chomsky (I've quoteblocked it in full):

The world reacted with horror to the murderous attack on the French satirical journal Charlie Hebdo. In the New York Times, veteran Europe correspondent Steven Erlanger graphically described the immediate aftermath, what many call France’s 9/11, as “a day of sirens, helicopters in the air, frantic news bulletins; of police cordons and anxious crowds; of young children led away from schools to safety. It was a day, like the previous two, of blood and horror in and around Paris.” The enormous outcry worldwide was accompanied by reflection about the deeper roots of the atrocity. “Many Perceive a Clash of Civilizations,” a New York Times headline read.

The reaction of horror and revulsion about the crime is justified, as is the search for deeper roots, as long as we keep some principles firmly in mind. The reaction should be completely independent of what one thinks about this journal and what it produces. The passionate and ubiquitous chants “I am Charlie,” and the like, should not be meant to indicate, even hint at, any association with the journal, at least in the context of defense of freedom of speech. Rather, they should express defense of the right of free expression whatever one thinks of the contents, even if they are regarded as hateful and depraved.

And the chants should also express condemnation for violence and terror. The head of Israel’s Labor Party and the main challenger for the upcoming elections in Israel, Isaac Herzog, is quite right when he says that “Terrorism is terrorism. There’s no two ways about it.” He is also right to say that “All the nations that seek peace and freedom [face] an enormous challenge” from murderous terrorism – putting aside his predictably selective interpretation of the challenge.

Erlanger vividly describes the scene of horror. He quotes one surviving journalist as saying that “Everything crashed. There was no way out. There was smoke everywhere. It was terrible. People were screaming. It was like a nightmare.” Another surviving journalist reported a “huge detonation, and everything went completely dark.” The scene, Erlanger reported, “was an increasingly familiar one of smashed glass, broken walls, twisted timbers, scorched paint and emotional devastation.” At least 10 people were reported at once to have died in the explosion, with 20 missing, “presumably buried in the rubble.”

These quotes, as the indefatigable David Peterson reminds us, are not, however, from January 2015. Rather, they are from a story of Erlanger’s on April 24 1999, which made it only to page 6 of the New York Times, not reaching the significance of the Charlie Hebdo attack. Erlanger was reporting on the NATO (meaning US) “missile attack on Serbian state television headquarters” that “knocked Radio Television Serbia off the air.”

There was an official justification. “NATO and American officials defended the attack,” Erlanger reports, “as an effort to undermine the regime of President Slobodan Milosevic of Yugoslavia.” Pentagon spokesman Kenneth Bacon told a briefing in Washington that “Serb TV is as much a part of Milosevic's murder machine as his military is,” hence a legitimate target of attack.

The Yugoslavian government said that “The entire nation is with our President, Slobodan Milosevic,” Erlanger reports, adding that “How the Government knows that with such precision was not clear.”

No such sardonic comments are in order when we read that France mourns the dead and the world is outraged by the atrocity. There need also be no inquiry into the deeper roots, no profound questions about who stands for civilization, and who for barbarism.

Isaac Herzog, then, is mistaken when he says that “Terrorism is terrorism. There’s no two ways about it.” There are quite definitely two ways about it: terrorism is not terrorism when a much more severe terrorist attack is carried out by those who are Righteous by virtue of their power. Similarly, there is no assault against freedom of speech when the Righteous destroy a TV channel supportive of a government that they are attacking.

By the same token, we can readily comprehend the comment in the New York Times of civil rights lawyer Floyd Abrams, noted for his forceful defense of freedom of expression, that the Charlie Hebdo attack is “the most threatening assault on journalism in living memory.” He is quite correct about “living memory,” which carefully assigns assaults on journalism and acts of terror to their proper categories: Theirs, which are horrendous; and Ours, which are virtuous and easily dismissed from living memory.

We might recall as well that this is only one of many assaults by the Righteous on free expression. To mention only one example that is easily erased from “living memory,” the assault on Falluja by US forces in November 2004, one of the worst crimes of the invasion of Iraq, opened with occupation of Falluja General Hospital. Military occupation of a hospital is, of course, a serious war crime in itself, even apart from the manner in which it was carried out, blandly reported in a front-page story in the New York Times, accompanied with a photograph depicting the crime. The story reported that “Patients and hospital employees were rushed out of rooms by armed soldiers and ordered to sit or lie on the floor while troops tied their hands behind their backs.” The crimes were reported as highly meritorious, and justified: “The offensive also shut down what officers said was a propaganda weapon for the militants: Falluja General Hospital, with its stream of reports of civilian casualties.”

Evidently such a propaganda agency cannot be permitted to spew forth its vulgar obscenities.

desdendelle Hooded Crow from Land of Milk and Honey (Sergeant) Relationship Status: Hiding
Hooded Crow
#1163: Jan 17th 2015 at 2:10:06 PM

He's wrong about one thing. Terrorism is terrorism, simply because an act either answers the definition (use of violence, usually against civilians, in order to inspire terror and achieve political goals) or doesn't.

On empty crossroads, seek the eclipse -- for when Sol and Lua align, the lost shall find their way home.
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#1164: Jan 17th 2015 at 3:00:52 PM

[up]I don't like Chomsky much besides laying the foundation of normalization for regular grammars on automaton.

But the core of his complains is that governments only call other's terrorists when they are against them or their interests and freedom fighters when their doings are on the interest of the governments.

He is basically complaining about the implications of Your Terrorists Are Our Freedom Fighters on politics.

Inter arma enim silent leges
Mars444 Since: May, 2013
#1165: Jan 17th 2015 at 3:04:44 PM

I think that he's trying to point out western hypocrisy where terrorist attacks carried out by powerful state actors, and even more importantly Western state actors, is not labeled terorism because "our side" did it and so we must be in the right. Like how two men gunning down 10 satirical cartoonists and editors is the gravest assault on the freedom of speech in living memory, while an American missile striking the headquarters of a television news network and killing 16 people is simply a strike on a strategic target. Or that drone strikes that kill wedding revelers and schoolchildren are just collateral damage.

MayuZane I made my own avatar from SPACE Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
I made my own avatar
#1166: Jan 17th 2015 at 4:32:04 PM

Saudi Arabia Constructing 600-Mile Wall To Keep Out ISIS: http://www.newsweek.com/saudi-arabia-constructing-600-mile-long-wall-keep-isis-out-299664

Saudi Arabia is building a 600-mile long wall along its northern border with Iraq in order to keep ISIS at bay, the Telegraph newspaper reported today.

Once completed, the wall will consist of a ditch and a triple-layered steel fence, with 40 watchtowers spread out along it. Each watchtower will be equipped with high-tech surveillance radars that are capable of detecting low-flying helicopters and approaching vehicles, as well as being able to spot a human from the range of about 20km.

There will also be 38 separate communication towers in place and 32 military response stations, as well as 240 armed rapid response vehicles which will patrol the wall.

I have a feeling they're just gonna dig under that thing.

Anybody want space lobsters?
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#1167: Jan 17th 2015 at 4:35:29 PM

Or they'll start to "educate" wannabe terrorists over the 'Net or non-physical means. Which they are doing already very succesfully by all accounts.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#1168: Jan 17th 2015 at 4:47:27 PM

That's a pretty feeble argument from Chomsky, given almost all of RTS's actual journalists had been purged from the station by that point and it was being used explicitly to promote ethnic hate propaganda which was feeding an actual ongoing campaign of ethnic cleansing, something it later admitted and which was established by the International Criminal Tribunal for Yugoslavia. There's a pretty obvious difference between bombing an engine of genocide and shooting up a mean 'ol satire mag.

He does have something of a point in that the War on Terror has defined "terrorism" in the popular mind as something only non-state actors can commit, but it's debatable that this has much real-world impact, given that government wrongdoing tends to be condemned too, but under different terms.

edited 17th Jan '15 4:53:34 PM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei
AngelusNox Warder of the damned from The guard of the gates of oblivion Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Warder of the damned
#1169: Jan 17th 2015 at 7:24:51 PM

The middle east is starting to look more and more like Command & Conquer: Generals.

[up]

Chomsky is a die hard anarchist, he always focuses on the sins of the state before moving to other groups who are just as bad or worse.

It is much harder for a government in a liberal democracy to pull terrorist actions without massive repercussions, the only ones doing that could be called that would be the drone strikes committed by the US and even then there is so much black tape over them for us to actually know their intentions. We assume the CIA and other agencies to act more on logic, so when we hear on the news that a drone strike killed a bunch of people in the wedding of a prominent figure associated with terrorists organizations, we don't know if the casualties were deemed acceptable as collateral damage or if someone got fucked up intel and stroke the right target on the wrong place.

While government agencies carry out attacks that inflict a lot of deaths on innocent civilians it is usually non intentional but they didn't really care about their deaths, on the other hand terrorists organizations deliberately target civilians or soldiers outside combat zones where they are the most vulnerable. As usual those terrorists organizations mostly pick targets that are unable to defend themselves, that is why they target markets places, worship places, magazine offices and wherever places a lot of unarmed civilians may frequent. It is the most sure way for them to force governments to give in to their demands or make people change their lives.

Inter arma enim silent leges
Aprilla Since: Aug, 2010
#1170: Jan 17th 2015 at 7:55:47 PM

Or that drone strikes that kill wedding revelers and schoolchildren are just collateral damage.

Right. The other issue is that we're stepping into dark territory when we start using terms like "acceptable loss of life". Barkey can explain this better than me, but as he put it, the Central Intelligence Agency has a much less clear-cut and properly outlined kill chain than the military does. Unilateral, autonomous decisions to launch strikes on high-value targets with little communication among various intelligence, law enforcement and military organizations can and does lead to inappropriate counter-terrorism efforts.

I've noticed that it's aggravatingly difficult to get people to have some perspective on precisely what it means to lose your friends and family in the pursuit of counter-terrorism, especially when the terror suspects have been identified under shaky notions. There is also a very ugly side to being guilty by association. If you're getting ready for work one morning while your wife is out jogging, what does that mean when she gets blown away by a UAV because she happened to be passing by the house a few blocks down the road that happens to be occupied by a suspected terrorist?

I'm not suggesting that our efforts to thwart terrorists should be toothless, but when you write off non-combatant casualties as an acceptable loss, you're defeating the ideological purpose of counter-terrorism operations, which is to deter terrorism. Wanting to join a terrorist group or at least be tolerant of one is a very human and very understandable response when someone close to you was unlawly injured or killed during an attack.

edited 17th Jan '15 7:58:10 PM by Aprilla

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#1171: Jan 17th 2015 at 8:09:18 PM

RE: Chomsky

I really wanted to agree with the points he made in that article, but then he went off on Serbia again. I swear he lives in some backwards, parallel earth where instead of getting mad when our enemies commit crimes and covering up the crimes of our allies, we castigate our "friends" and exonerate our foes. Instead of giving into the usual Cold War narrative of "USA=good, USSR=bad" he just flips it around, tearing on the actions of American allies in Indonesia, South America etc (which don't get me wrong, are more than deserving of being teared on) while pretending that the Khmer Rouge and Serbia were innocent victims of cruel American imperialism. Apparently it's only ethnic cleansing if you do it with US money.

Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#1172: Jan 17th 2015 at 8:18:32 PM

Mind you, seeing as he's an American citizen with (to the best of my knowledge) no major tax scandals to his name, you might see why he takes his money being used for crimes against humanity somewhat personally...

What's precedent ever done for us?
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#1173: Jan 17th 2015 at 8:19:39 PM

[up]I don't mind that part. Heck, if he just wanted to talk about crimes that have been committed with American tax dollars I wouldn't mind that either. More people need to know about some of the garbage the US government has gotten up to. What I mind is when he acts as an apologist for non-American war criminals, as he did with both the Serbs and Khmer Rouge.

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#1174: Jan 17th 2015 at 11:29:02 PM

On a whim, I decided to do some digging for any Arabic articles about the Saudi royal decree mentioned in this post, and I just discovered the following:

  1. That article from The Independent dates back to April 1, 2014.

  2. The publicly announced Arabic text of the decree appears to have no mention of atheism whatsoever, only talking about religious extremism. Source.

Late April Fools' Day prank?

edited 17th Jan '15 11:29:25 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#1175: Jan 18th 2015 at 4:29:38 AM

[up][up]

My problem with Chomsky is that every time I read something of his on a topic I actually have some knowledge of or have read up on - ie, WWII history, Cold War beginnings, the ICTY etc - he always leaves out crucial information or context, sometimes to the point of lying by omission. It makes it very hard for me to take him seriously on things I am not more informed on, because I don't feel I can trust him to tell me all the facts.

edited 18th Jan '15 4:31:05 AM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei

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