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TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#1226: Dec 10th 2014 at 9:03:46 AM

A lot. They are popular in fiction. You looking at just state actors or you including mercenaries and special forces in general?

Who watches the watchmen?
demarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#1227: Dec 10th 2014 at 10:12:07 AM

Good lord. It would be easier to list the military protagonists who arent in some sort of special forces unit.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
EchoingSilence Since: Jun, 2013
#1228: Dec 10th 2014 at 10:17:18 AM

Not looking for protagonists just special forces.

I.E the Wreckers of Transformers Prime.

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#1229: Dec 10th 2014 at 1:12:06 PM

Why don't you try something more less known? Like the P Js or Combat Controllers?

New Survey coming this weekend!
EchoingSilence Since: Jun, 2013
#1230: Dec 10th 2014 at 1:38:21 PM

Never really heard of either... could you please explain it to me?

TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#1231: Dec 10th 2014 at 2:04:33 PM

Hmm. That is kinda hard to narrow down. Warhammer 40k, Halo, Mass Effect, The Aldenata Series, Ghost in the Shell Series, Mag Force 7, really too many to list.

Who watches the watchmen?
NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#1232: Dec 10th 2014 at 2:37:13 PM

The PJs are "Para Jumpers", the Pararescuemen. They're special forces that are trained to go in, provide medical aid and whatever other assistance is necessary in the field, and then get out again with their charges. Basically, Combat Medic + It's Raining Men + No One Gets Left Behind.

The CCTs are Combat Control Teams, special forces who specialize in directing air units from the ground in combat situations. That means they're the guys on the radio talking to pilots and directing them in ground-attack missions — making sure they blow up the right thing at the right time. It's harder than it sounds.

Both are often attached to other units as necessary, so it wouldn't be unusual to find someone trained as a PJ or CCT operating with a different special forces unit for a particular mission.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
EchoingSilence Since: Jun, 2013
#1233: Dec 10th 2014 at 3:50:21 PM

Ah fascinating. I will have to add those to Endless.

TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#1234: Dec 10th 2014 at 4:00:53 PM

I think it might be easier tell us what you want to exclude or if you were thinking of a certain specific style or type of unit. You looking for Elite Units or Special Forces specifically? There is some overlap but neither is exclusive to the other. You have any specific fiction works in mind?

You mentioned the Waffen SS I am assuming you mean what might be considered Elite Infantry units. There are a lot of those in both real life and fiction as well.

Who watches the watchmen?
EchoingSilence Since: Jun, 2013
#1235: Dec 10th 2014 at 7:02:01 PM

Well I have begun writing and part of it involves in the prologue a appearance of new soldiers in heavily customized armor meant to distinguish them as elite. This is after a heavy first wave assault that tears through the defensive line.

What would these guys count as and what would I call them?

demarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#1236: Dec 10th 2014 at 7:35:28 PM

If the are participating in the battle proper, then they arent special forces at all, but some sort of support or attack unit.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#1237: Dec 10th 2014 at 7:50:17 PM

If they are say an elite assault or defense unit you could simply go the route where the unit name fits their mission. The name could also reflect something about their location. It could be a name specific to their origin. It could even be a name related to unit symbols and markings.

Like for instance. The Marine Raiders or simply Raiders were infiltration and sabotage unit meant to harass certain areas of Japanese held islands. They would launch an assault cause havoc and then flee.

"The Night Stalkers" 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment. 1st Infantry Division US Army "The Big Red One". 1st Battalion, 3rd Marines Stationed in Hawaii "The Lava Dogs". 1st Marine Division "The Old Breed" or "Blue Diamond".

Or you can give them their own bad ass sounding name. Like 23rd Assault Infantry "The Blood Drinkers" or some other similar name.

De Marquis; Special forces can and have participated in large battles. They tend to avoid it but they have also operated along side other units.

edited 10th Dec '14 7:51:02 PM by TuefelHundenIV

Who watches the watchmen?
EchoingSilence Since: Jun, 2013
#1238: Dec 11th 2014 at 3:46:54 AM

I was thinking name related to the armor. But a specialized assault unit seems like a good idea. These guys were sent in because the station the military force in the prologue is invading has finalized a super weapon. The first wave assault was merely to clear a path.

The elite units are to capture or destroy the super weapon itself.

AFP Since: Mar, 2010
#1239: Dec 11th 2014 at 3:49:31 AM

From a casual study of military heraldry and tradition, if you want a unit to lack imagination, just have them call themselves "The Wolfpack". It's utterly badass and has only been done about 80 times in Real Life.

And yeah, I've noticed a lot of units (especially flying units, but Army units are not immune) will have a nickname based on their insignia. The 51st Fighter Wing calls themselves the Checkertails because of a checkerboard pattern they paint on the tails of their planes, the 99th Fighter Squadron became known as the "Red Tails" because they'd paint the tails of their planes bright red so the bombers they were escorting would always know who they were (famously, an all-black fighter squadron in the times before the US Army became racially integrated).

Other badass nicknames include "The Flying Tigers" (oddly enough, for a flying unit more famous for painting shark noses on their planes than for their actual winged tiger unit insignia) and "The Rock of the Marne" (US 3d Infantry Division, who delayed a German attempt to cross the Marne river for several hours during WWI, giving the French time to rally forces for a counter attack).

Reaching back into history and mythology can also produce some fun names. Name your units for historical types of units or formations no longer in use (Phalanx, Legion, Corsairs, etc.) or for historical generals ("The Schwartzkopf Brigade") or associate them with stereotypically badass regions or peoples (such as the Royal Gurkha Rifles).

If all else fails, give them an overtly nondescript or nonthreatening sounding name, like the Special Activities Division or the Artists Rifles.

echoingsilence Since: Jun, 2013
#1240: Dec 11th 2014 at 7:29:02 AM

Not going for "The Wolfpack"... not unless it's a new Auxiliary Pilot union that is trying to hard to be taken seriously evil grin.

Now as for the elite unite, I was thinking something either like Blackware unit.

Oh yes Auxiliary Pilots. Forgot about that. If anyone recalls my worldbuilding thread for Endless I mentioned that it is going to be a (relatively) hard science fiction mecha series with theoretical technologies in development now or could be seen in the future. Auxiliary Pilots are just Motung Mercenaries.

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#1241: Dec 11th 2014 at 12:31:45 PM

Does discussion of Military leadership and policies/regs technically count under this topic?

New Survey coming this weekend!
MajorTom Since: Dec, 2009
#1242: Dec 11th 2014 at 4:15:00 PM

^ If it relates. Such as talking regulations vs doctrine vs leadership abilities.

TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#1243: Dec 11th 2014 at 4:48:14 PM

Sure go for it. It often plays into how and who handles the big picture.

Who watches the watchmen?
TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#1244: Dec 11th 2014 at 5:08:03 PM

Well, the first is how realistic is military leaders becoming Magnetic Hero in which they're so charismatic that even the grunts fresh out of basic would follow their officers to hell and back? Though I suppose after a certain rank, said officer would get way too out of touch for a professional military to have the lower ranks personally loyal to the top brass?

I know this is probably impossible in the US military for example, as a lot of service members hate the people they work with/for, but I'm trying to go for a compromise of realism vs MST3K Mantra

New Survey coming this weekend!
TairaMai rollin' on dubs from El Paso Tx Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Mu
rollin' on dubs
#1245: Dec 11th 2014 at 5:55:38 PM

It's a function of Show, Don't Tell and the logic of the story.

Commander Mary Sue batting her eyelashes and the entire unit throwing wave after wave of Red Shirts at the enemy? Bull pucky.

A leader like Omar "The G.I.'s General" Bradley? Yes. Show the leader earning that reputation. Some like Patton weren't loved per se, but damn were they respected.

There are officers and NCO's who will fight for their troops even if they make them scrub every surface and work till 1900.

And there are the poorly written characters who are "loved" for their "leadership".

Sf Debris points out the difference between the various Star Trek Captains:

  • Kirk put the ship and crew above himself. Sure he beds the Green-Skinned Space Babe, but he's also A Father to His Men.

  • Picard is a thinker and a scientist, and yet he's also a stern father figure and not above listening to a good idea no matter where it comes from. He's not above his own rules and like Kirk, the ship and crew come first.

  • Sisko is rough and tumble officer who inspired his crew and pushed them. He's a stern character like Picard, but not afraid to get his hands dirty with a flux coupler, fixing the station.

  • Janeway was just a pure Mary Sue and badly written: see Sf Debris entry on why she didn't pan out.

  • Archer was Epic Fail as a captain, again see Sf Debris on how he was as "inspiring as a baby bird's head sticking out of a car tire".

I tried to walk like an Egyptian and now I need to see a Cairo practor....
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#1246: Dec 11th 2014 at 6:25:32 PM

Chesty Puller had a pretty rep with his Marines mostly because he could lead and he took care of them.

Who watches the watchmen?
EchoingSilence Since: Jun, 2013
#1247: Dec 11th 2014 at 7:11:18 PM

I made sure my Commander Shepard was always the kind of person that people could get behind in the ME 2 loyalty missions. I spent time eith the crew, fought on the front lines with them, and hunted for the best results on their loyalty mission.

So a strong need for care of the soldiers underneath their command and the dedication and ability to earn their respect.

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#1248: Dec 11th 2014 at 7:14:04 PM

[up] I'm not sure the Mass Effect comparison works. Shepard is literally treated just short of Jesus Incarnate where practically the entire galaxy was kissing his ass. They took Magnetic Hero Up To Eleven to absurd levels.

New Survey coming this weekend!
EchoingSilence Since: Jun, 2013
#1249: Dec 12th 2014 at 3:48:50 AM

Everywhere but the Council. They dismissed that claim.

But I guess you are right.

TacticalFox88 from USA Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Dating the Doctor
#1250: Dec 14th 2014 at 6:53:39 PM

All right, just a general question. As some of you probably already know my humanity has 2 billion active duty force. Now they're hitting back the enemy that just attacked an ally (Think NATO in space, essentially) and they want to hit hard, shock and awe.

Would 100 million troop counter invasion be considered a bit excessive? Or should it be a bit lower or higher? The goal is complete and utter annihilation of ALL military assets, while keeping civilian casualties to a minimum, but at best secondary objective.

New Survey coming this weekend!

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