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Question about the trope The Magnificent Seven Samurai

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ShanghaiSlave Giver of Lame Names from YKTTW Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
#1: Jun 28th 2013 at 12:09:39 PM

So, what the title says, anyway

EDIT: crossed out cleared stuff

edited 18th Jul '13 3:19:25 AM by ShanghaiSlave

Is dast der Zerstorer? Odar die Schopfer?
lexicon Since: May, 2012
#2: Jun 28th 2013 at 12:46:05 PM

The Three Faces of Eve is an ensemble of the three archetypes of Seductress, Child, and Wife. The Hecate Sisters is an ensemble of the three archetypes of Maiden, Mother, and Crone. Can you be more specific about what you want to know about Three Successful Generations and Four-Girl Ensemble? The Three Faces Of Adam is a mess. We tried to fix it once. That's when Three Successful Generations and Mentor's New Hope were started.

Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#3: Jun 28th 2013 at 12:53:24 PM

Three Faces Of Adam was pretty someone much deciding that since The Hecate Sisters & Three Faces of Eve exist, and must be female, there had to be a Spear Counterpart for male characters, and tried to fabricate one out of thin air. It was ill-defined from the very beginning.

edited 28th Jun '13 10:48:24 PM by Madrugada

macronnotes (she/her) (Captain) Relationship Status: Less than three
(she/her)
#4: Jun 28th 2013 at 1:44:14 PM

What is the difference between Three Amigos and Two Guys and a Girl? the descriptions on both ain't really helping me.

Three Amigos is about a group of three friends; two are the same gender and one is the opposite.

Two Guys and a Girl is about a Love Triangle between two guys and a girl who are friends.

edited 28th Jun '13 1:44:29 PM by macronnotes

Macron's notes
ShanghaiSlave Giver of Lame Names from YKTTW Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
#5: Jun 28th 2013 at 9:24:58 PM

@2 — I see, the examples got me confused on The Hecate Sisters and The Three Faces of Eve,
some of the examples are part of a bigger group or don't really team up too often in universe.
regarding the generation and adam tropes, the question was "is it an ensemble or a pattern?",
because if it's a pattern then it should be nearly omnipresent, and yet it is not.

@3 — I see.

@4 — The roles for Three Amigos seem to be overly specific in the description,
and don't seem very flexible if adhered to strictly(e.g. can't have the girl as Hero?).

also, Three Amigos say "romance will be explored"(so it can turn to Two Guys and a Girl ensemble?),
and Two Guys and a Girl laconic implies that the ensemble works by having conflict within the trio,
so does that imply Three Amigos remain smooth sailing throughout the story?.

edited 28th Jun '13 9:30:12 PM by ShanghaiSlave

Is dast der Zerstorer? Odar die Schopfer?
lexicon Since: May, 2012
#6: Jun 28th 2013 at 9:46:55 PM

The sisters and eve don't need to team up as long as there's something that unites them. The Hecate Sisters are generally daughter, mother, and grandmother. The Three Faces of Eve are often the three women fighting for the attention of the male protagonist. If the characters are no more united than any other characters in the story they probably don't fit the trope. Three Successful Generations is not omnipresent. It happens as often as three individuals, perhaps son, father, and grandfather, each go about making something of themselves. In this context how does an ensemble differ from a pattern? I like Four-Girl Ensemble. I know the description is brief but I don't know what else there is to say about it.

edited 28th Jun '13 9:47:16 PM by lexicon

ShanghaiSlave Giver of Lame Names from YKTTW Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
#7: Jun 28th 2013 at 10:10:08 PM

@ 6 lexicon — I see, so as long as there is common them on Sisters and Eve.
And Eve requires fighting for the protagonist? o_O the description doesn't seem to say that.
on generations... i was not aware there was a mass cleanup, there's nothing confusing about it now.


the Four-Girl Ensemble examples is where I get lost. the cleanupnote  makes it even more confusing. it seems to be a very flexible trope the only constants seem to be that there has to be a: Airhead, Unreadable character, Tomboy, Feminine girl. is that right?

Is dast der Zerstorer? Odar die Schopfer?
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#8: Jun 28th 2013 at 10:26:48 PM

I don't think Three Amigos is overly restrictive. It just has a generic-sounding name.

MacronNotes (she/her) (Captain) Relationship Status: Less than three
(she/her)
#9: Jun 28th 2013 at 10:37:13 PM

@5 The "romance will be explored" line on The Three Amigos needs to be changed. Romance isn't always seen in the examples. I also don't see anything saying where the hero can't be a girl and it doesnt seem restrictive too me. As for Two Guys and a Girl, I'll say that The Three Amigos can have conflict but it doesn't tend to last long and it's not a defining trait in the relationship. The descriptions of the two tropes should try to better clarify the difference between the two tropes.

Macron's notes
Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#10: Jun 28th 2013 at 10:50:47 PM

And Eve requires fighting for the protagonist? o_O the description doesn't seem to say that.
It doesn't say that because that's not part of the trope. They don't need to compete for the protagonist. They don't need to be in competition for anyone.

lexicon Since: May, 2012
#11: Jun 28th 2013 at 10:51:27 PM

No, the fighting is not required, but the three are very feminine in good and desirable ways so there's often romance and there's often a single male protagonist.

In Four-Girl Ensemble the naive girl isn't necessarily an airhead. I personally haven't seen any examples where she's The Ditz, (though it would be possible) but instead I've often seen shy or perhaps outgoingly sweet. The manish one is often a tomboy. By feminine you mean sexy and unreadable is the admirable one, right?

ShanghaiSlave Giver of Lame Names from YKTTW Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
#12: Jun 29th 2013 at 5:29:05 PM

@9 — I see. but this thread isn't in the TRS. but i agree, it does need work.


@11 — OK. The Ditz examples are all over the anime section. and yea on both.

Is dast der Zerstorer? Odar die Schopfer?
lexicon Since: May, 2012
#13: Jun 30th 2013 at 6:17:15 PM

In Four-Girl Ensemble the sexy one is usually an attention seeker and feminine in a mature sort of way. What do you mean when you call the admirable one unreadable?

ShanghaiSlave Giver of Lame Names from YKTTW Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
#14: Jul 1st 2013 at 3:56:42 PM

I mean you can't really predict what she's up to. whether she'd be playing pranks or working towards a heartwarming moment or whatever.

Is dast der Zerstorer? Odar die Schopfer?
lexicon Since: May, 2012
#15: Jul 1st 2013 at 5:38:57 PM

I don't know why she'd be playing pranks. The admirable one is usually smart, caring, mature, and sensible. Those things are why the others can't help but look up to her.

ShanghaiSlave Giver of Lame Names from YKTTW Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
#16: Jul 2nd 2013 at 4:07:12 AM

[up] then that means the Yuru Yuri and Lucky Star entries were shoehorned. as both toshino kyoko and Konata seemed to have been "the admireable one". yeah, i'm referring to this trope soley by anime examples.


anway, anyone got an idea on the rest of the questions? i feel like we're heading into Single Issue Wank here.

edited 2nd Jul '13 4:07:23 AM by ShanghaiSlave

Is dast der Zerstorer? Odar die Schopfer?
ShanghaiSlave Giver of Lame Names from YKTTW Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
#17: Jul 17th 2013 at 2:49:38 AM

bump. I still have unresolved questions.

Is dast der Zerstorer? Odar die Schopfer?
Noaqiyeum we must dissent (it/they) from across the gulf of space (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
we must dissent (it/they)
#18: Jul 17th 2013 at 9:12:37 AM

Geodesic Cast is sort of a subtype of Cast Herd, as I understand it, where each herd has a similar structure or internal dynamic - five different power trios, for instance. (I'm mot sure that the Geodesic Cast picture is actually an example, since by the time you get to 'each has three trolls' it starts to look kind of shoehorned.)

ERROR: The current state of the world is unacceptable. Save anyway? YES/NO
ShanghaiSlave Giver of Lame Names from YKTTW Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
#19: Jul 17th 2013 at 7:52:27 PM

[up]...looking at the trope pictures, the one in Cast Herd is seems to be a clearer example of Geodesic Cast, based on what you said. the Naruto teams are all consistently Power Trio plus a Mentor. on Cast Herd, the One Piece pirate crews would be one of the best example then? since as far as i know tho only thing consistent about them is they are pirates, the number of group members seem to vary.

Is dast der Zerstorer? Odar die Schopfer?
Noaqiyeum we must dissent (it/they) from across the gulf of space (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
we must dissent (it/they)
#20: Jul 17th 2013 at 9:02:17 PM

If that's the case, yes. I don't know much about either series. You could bring it up in Image Picking.

ERROR: The current state of the world is unacceptable. Save anyway? YES/NO
ShanghaiSlave Giver of Lame Names from YKTTW Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
#21: Jul 18th 2013 at 3:14:48 AM

[up] i've watched a few eps of Naruto and VERY few eps of One Piece, so i'm not very familiar with either myself. but those two tropes are readily apparent on both due to how the character entries are grouped in This Wiki. anyway, not sure i'm up to that at the moment. anyway, Geodesic Cast and Cast Herd are clear to me now. only a few more left with The Magnificent Seven Samurai being the one i would really like cleared up.

edited 18th Jul '13 3:21:12 AM by ShanghaiSlave

Is dast der Zerstorer? Odar die Schopfer?
ShanghaiSlave Giver of Lame Names from YKTTW Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
#22: Jul 23rd 2013 at 3:07:38 AM

bump.(damn, how do i edit the thread title so it only it says only one is particularly important?)

edited 23rd Jul '13 3:08:47 AM by ShanghaiSlave

Is dast der Zerstorer? Odar die Schopfer?
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#23: Jul 23rd 2013 at 3:35:56 AM

  1. Press the yellow triangle above one of the posts here.
  2. Enter a request for the thread title to be changed to "X".
  3. Hit "Send".

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
ShanghaiSlave Giver of Lame Names from YKTTW Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
#24: Aug 1st 2013 at 2:47:19 AM

bump. still haven't figured out what exactly magnificent seven samurai is.

Is dast der Zerstorer? Odar die Schopfer?
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#25: Aug 1st 2013 at 2:08:22 PM

I've never been entirely certain about this either. Is it an ensemble trope or a Stock Shout-Out to the trope namer(s)?


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