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Alexander's Ragtime Band by Irving Berlin- is it racist?

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MorwenEdhelwen Aussie Tolkien freak from Sydney, Australia Since: Jul, 2012
Aussie Tolkien freak
#1: Jun 27th 2013 at 12:27:03 AM

This song is becoming one of my favourites. It was Irving Berlin's first great hit, which along with the rest of his pre-1923 stuff, fell into the public domain in 1976.

The chorus has been stuck in my head:

Come on and hear, come on and hear

Alexander's Ragtime Band.

Come on and hear, come on and hear,

It's the best band in the land.

They can play a bugle call like you never heard before,

So natural that you want to go to war.

That's just the bestest band what am, honey lamb.

Come on along, come on along,

Let me take you by the hand,

Up to the man, up to the man,

Who's the leader of the band.

And if you'd like to hear the Swanee River

Played in ragtime,

Come on and hear, come on and hear

Alexander's Ragtime Band.

IIRC, Alexander's Ragtime Band was one of a group of songs called coon songs that were really popular in about The Gay '90s and 1900s and usually featured Black American dialect and racial stereotypes. The performers would also do them in blackface- even the name is racist. Alexander was a stock minstrel show character.

Does this necessarily mean that the song Alexander's Ragtime Band is racist? Is a song by a White writer using a White idea of Black dialect racist?

edited 27th Jun '13 12:29:48 AM by MorwenEdhelwen

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien
0dd1 Just awesome like that from Nowhere Land Since: Sep, 2009
Just awesome like that
#2: Jun 27th 2013 at 12:39:18 AM

There are plenty of songs in the popular consciousness today that had similar origins. I believe "Camptown Races" was another minstrel hit, as well as plenty of other Stephen Foster tunes. Even old forgotten songs from minstrel shows have had an impact on shaping popular culture—the Aunt Jemima character was originally based on a character from a minstrel show and even had a jingle that was taken directly from a specific song that I can't quite remember at the moment. Even still, tons of other forms of entertainment from the era are just as racist, even more so at times.

Honestly, much of the history of American popular music involves tons of racism and even at times blatant theft from black musicians—everything from traditional pop to jazz to rock to rap—so it's honestly not surprising to discover racism behind a song of that era. It's important to understand the times in which a song was written before making any judgement of it either as a whole or from a moral standpoint.

Just a note, I'm not making excuses for all this stuff at all, and none of this at all diminishes how outright racist it is. Just providing historical context (though most probably realize it already, thus making this post pretty redundant).

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MorwenEdhelwen Aussie Tolkien freak from Sydney, Australia Since: Jul, 2012
Aussie Tolkien freak
#3: Jun 27th 2013 at 1:05:11 AM

[up] "Oh Susanna" was one too. And has one verse which is no longer sung.

edited 27th Jun '13 1:05:22 AM by MorwenEdhelwen

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien
0dd1 Just awesome like that from Nowhere Land Since: Sep, 2009
Just awesome like that
#4: Jun 27th 2013 at 1:08:24 AM

[up]Ah yes, I had that one on the tip of my tongue but couldn't remember when I was writing that spiel.

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MorwenEdhelwen Aussie Tolkien freak from Sydney, Australia Since: Jul, 2012
Aussie Tolkien freak
#5: Jul 8th 2013 at 1:16:25 AM

There's also the 1930 version of "Puttin' on The Ritz".

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien
Fresison Since: Feb, 2012
#6: Jul 8th 2013 at 11:42:25 PM

Do keep in mind, though, that Berlin also wrote "Suppertime":

"In 1933, writer and director Moss Hart seized on Berlin’s ability to turn current events into profitable songs. The collaboration resulted in As Thousands Cheer, a Broadway revue built around newspaper headlines. Herbert Hoover, leaving the White House to a Bronx cheer, Mahatma Gandhi sitting cross-legged on a mat, Josephine Baker caterwauling, Walter Winchell retailing gossip—Berlin’s songs poked fun at them all.

Not everything in the revue was satirical, however. Those who had dismissed Berlin as a lightweight changed their tune when Ethel Waters appeared in a powerful scene with the headline UNKNOWN NEGRO LYNCHED BY FRENZIED MOB. The writer had produced more than his share of “coon songs”—-comic numbers in black dialect-—and most people assumed that he would carry on in that style. Instead, he underwent a change of attitude 20 years before his country did, and gave Waters “Supper Time.” The piece brought down the house every night:

"Kids will soon be yellin’
For their supper time;
How’ll I keep from tellin’ that
That man o’ mine
Ain’t comin’ home no more?
How’ll I keep explainin’
When they ask me where he’s gone?
How’ll I keep from cryin’
When I bring their supper on?"

Berlin wasn’t content to editorialize in song: his deeds backed up his belief in racial equality. During the rehearsals, actors Clifton Webb and Helen Broderick refused to take curtain calls alongside a Negro. Very well, responded Berlin, no one would bow for any number. The mutiny promptly ended; thereafter all three performers acknowledged the applause together."

—From Stefan Kanfer, The Americanization of Irving Berlin

edited 8th Jul '13 11:43:58 PM by Fresison

Aldo930 Professional Moldy Fig/Curmudgeon from Quahog, R.I. Since: Aug, 2013
Professional Moldy Fig/Curmudgeon
#7: Nov 24th 2013 at 12:28:38 PM

Post 1: The answer to the question is that while the dialect that the song is written in does have Unfortunate Implications, the song's lyrics do not - it's about as offensive as "The Darktown Strutters' Ball."

Edit: By which I mean that the song's lyrics are free of racial stereotypes. It's just a tune about a really good band.

edited 24th Nov '13 12:30:06 PM by Aldo930

"They say I'm old fashioned, and live in the past, but sometimes I think progress progresses too fast."
Odd1 Still just awesome like that from Nowhere Land Since: Sep, 2013 Relationship Status: And here's to you, Mrs. Robinson
Still just awesome like that
#8: Nov 24th 2013 at 12:37:12 PM

Fun fact: Back in the day the song was written, "Alexander" was a name people would stereotypically ascribe to African American bandleaders. Not quite sure why (it was a stereotype present before the song was written), but it certainly has certain implications on the song.

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MorwenEdhelwen Aussie Tolkien freak from Sydney, Australia Since: Jul, 2012
Aussie Tolkien freak
#9: Nov 25th 2013 at 6:37:33 PM

[up] There's a song called "Alexander (Don't You Love Your Baby No More)" in which Alexander isn't a bandleader, just a man who's rejected his girlfriend/wife for claiming that she loved another man.

The road goes ever on. -Tolkien
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