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TheLovecraftian Since: Jul, 2017
#201: May 25th 2018 at 1:42:10 PM

That must suck.

I've thankfully not been personally affected as of yet, outside of having to prepare something different for lunch. My city is almost entirely out of fuel, though, and feeling a bit empty, since a lot of the workforce here depends on people from smaller cities nearby.

I also hear São Paulo has entered a state of emergency.

edited 25th May '18 1:43:15 PM by TheLovecraftian

Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#202: May 25th 2018 at 3:26:17 PM

So, for those of us who are living in countries that rarely get detailed news from Brazil, what are the demands of the strikers? Do they have a point? Is the other side likely to give in, crackdown, or just drag this out?

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
TheLovecraftian Since: Jul, 2017
#203: May 25th 2018 at 4:38:02 PM

Like almost every political issue in Brazil lately, it's the result of a long list of issues that got worse over time being tipped over by one specific thing. In this case, truckers have had several issues lately with things such as shipping taxes and gas prices, and the recent decision by Petrobras to change the way they regulate gas prices has caused a sharp increase in those, leading to the truckers deciding to protest. Thus, this week they stopped all services.

Now, the problem with that is Brazil is almost exclusively based on their services and on it's road system, so for the last week, cities have been on reserve in almost every resource, ranging from gas, to food, to just about everything that needs to be transported. By today, some cities are declaring entering emergency state, and most have run out of gas entirely.

Because we're in the middle of a serious political crisis (and have been for nearly the last five years at this point), the government is in a bad place. They're facing several different issues (which are, depending on who you ask, their own fault) in every area, so this issue was the last thing they needed. As such, they struck a deal with the truckers early today.

The current issue is: that deal, as with every deal made with every group that has had a strike in the last four years, consists mostly of empty promises and alternate compromises, but very little in the way of actual actions. Every deal like this made by the government in the recent past has ended up with them backtracking on the promises, either by only going halfway or by not doing them whatsoever. The teachers in Brazil were a good example of that. As such, one of the main groups involved in the protest has decided they won't sign, while the others have decided to take the deal. Meanwhile, the president has called for armed forces to remove the remaining protesters in what is being called a simple removal (And frankly, is right now the equivalent of our president calling for an adult to take care of issues for him), but history teaches us to treat the involvement of the armed forces with cautious attention.

That the truckers have a point in their protests seems to be, as far as I've seen, a consensus. How right they are, and how correct is this particular group's decision to not take the deal and continue the protests, is the current issue.

Personally, while I agree that the deal doesn't look very promising under scrutiny, I think they can take it for now. The country will undergo elections later this year, and for better or for worse, waiting until there is worth it. Brazil isn't very happy right now, so the biggest powder keg is probably going to go off there. Conserving strength for then seems wisest to me, and no one wants the current situation to drag on. Another week or two of this would very quickly deteriorate the country's stability, which, for all the long-term good it might do, would really finish fucking everything up around here in the short term.

Slight addition: There is the running belief that the groups taking the deal are actually led by businesses that would benefit from them, instead of the actual truckers, and who have at least partly hijacked the whole thing for their own good while actually making the truckers' situation worse. So there's also that going on right now.

Then there are people who are in it just to cause chaos and see the world burn, and an entire discussion between left-ish, right and far-right political spheres, and some far less than sane people who think the solution to everything would be to bring back the military dictatorship (No, seriously).

Honestly, Brazil is kind of a giant, complicated, self-destructive mess right now. I won't point fingers because this isn't the topic to do so in, but things are getting ugly down here.

edited 25th May '18 5:48:13 PM by TheLovecraftian

TheLovecraftian Since: Jul, 2017
#204: May 27th 2018 at 2:18:45 PM

So. With the armed forces coming by and forcing everyone to get off the road or get fined pretty heavily otherwise, the truckers who are still protesting have decided to clear the roads. One by one. And then get back to blocking the roads a little while later, until some soldiers come and clear them out, point at which they repeat the whole cycle.

Brazilians, ladies and gentlemen.

edited 27th May '18 4:32:24 PM by TheLovecraftian

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#205: May 27th 2018 at 4:57:56 PM

My city's basically in crisis already. I don't think anything's gonna be working properly tomorrow, and I have no plans to leave my house tomorrow to go to class since I don't think the buses are going to be in service.

TheLovecraftian Since: Jul, 2017
#206: May 27th 2018 at 6:02:54 PM

That's rough. Hope things get better for you soon. I've heard that the armed forces are escorting trucks with essential good (like fuel, materials for hospitals and the like) in some states, but I don't know where those are.

Things are still relatively peaceful in my city. The only effect we've been really feeling is that the supermarkets are getting to the end of their stock.

Hopefully this will be resolved in the next few days.

TheLovecraftian Since: Jul, 2017
#207: May 28th 2018 at 1:53:42 PM

Time for some good news: The strike is just about over. The government has arrived at an agreement with the truckers, and supposedly, as soon as the things included in the agreement are properly enacted, everything ends properly.

There are still truckers blocking the roads, but those guys are, supposedly, truckers that have yet to receive news of the agreement. The strike is supposed to have ended this morning.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#208: May 28th 2018 at 8:47:29 PM

We're unfortunately still going to be feeling the effects for a little while. The strike has had a domino effect and led to a lot of supplies going bad, livestock dying, etc. On top of that, it will still take a while for supplies to arrive.

EDIT: Also, things weren't quite as bad as I was anticipating. The buses were working today, things still seem relatively peaceful and I was able to come to and go back from school without much issue. The only big problem is the food supply in the city is running low; my mother went to the supermarket today to grab what she could and fortunately we're going to be ok for a little while still but all the supermarkets have started to run out of meat, eggs, etc.

edited 28th May '18 8:56:56 PM by Draghinazzo

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#209: May 28th 2018 at 9:09:57 PM

Ugh, food shortages are never pretty. Hope this gets resolved soon.

Disgusted, but not surprised
TheLovecraftian Since: Jul, 2017
#210: May 29th 2018 at 4:23:43 AM

Yeah, this is a hit we're still gonna feel for a while. It'll probably even affect our elections later this year. But the worst part has ended. At least there's that.

I'm glad things were fine for you. Hope they stay that way.

TheLovecraftian Since: Jul, 2017
#211: May 29th 2018 at 5:09:15 AM

Well, that didn't take long to change. I'm making a different post because this is news, not just discussion.

So it seems despite the agreement that was made on monday morning, things are not clearing up, and now there's a lot of confusion regarding the situation. I'll do my best to explain what I've heard.

The basics of the situation are that while the agreement was achieved, the number of places where truckers are blocking roads has not changed in any significant fashion. Supposedly, that is because with their demands attended to, the truckers have now decided to continue, this time for all od Brazil instead of just for their category.

However, things are a lot more divided now. One of the politicians responsible for the agreement has claimed that he's spoken with people in the movement and no one really knows where this is all coming from or what exactly they want. Complaints and intentions in whatsapp groups go from wanting the president to leave office, having the anti-corruption investigations advance in any significant fashion, to asking for military intervention (because people in Brazil seem to have forgotten how that went the first time around). Meanwhile, they seem to be refusing to move from their places.

The military have not made official remarks about that yet as far as I can see, but they have claimed that road traffic is at least partially back to normal, and that they are still escorting supplies for hospital, airports, energy plants and, of course, for the military and police themselves.

There are claims that this whole noise is being made by people from outside the movement in order to keep it going, and that the manifestations have gone far beyond their scope already. One senate member pointed at politicians who want to have a chance in this year's elections and are grabbing at what they can. Others have made mentions about there being "moles" within the strikes that are causing all of this.

Supposedly, from what has been seen in those whatsapp groups, the idea now is that this has become a fight against corruption and that they want all of Brazil's population to join in with them. The calmer members of the movement seem to understand that this does require some measure of calm, civility and organization, things that the brazilian population is running out of somewhat quickly. There also seems to be a lot of distrust as to the terms of the agreement, as some believe it'll be used as a cover to stop the truckers from protesting again before it's fully implemented, and that it will be undone at a later date (neither fear is unbased, as this has been a common thing in recent years).

All in all, it's a bit of a shitshow, but still early. Most of what's happening is hearsay and uncertainty. If the new demands or the intention of continuing with a new purpose are real, that gets very complicated. Some individuals amongst the protesters clearly believe in what is being demanded now (and several videos of those workers have gone to the air already with their myriad of complaints, such as not being able to feed their children), but the matter is one of leadership, as in who, if anyone, is putting all of this together, and what are the exact demands and strength here.

As for the individual matters here, well... it's complicated. A lot of those complaints are demands are comprehensible and even supportable (except the whole military intervention thing). But this is overreaching a bit too much. The truckers have gotten what they wanted, and, in doing so, crippled Brazil's populace a bit too much. If they decide to go onward and continue this, they won't last long one way or another unless they find some miraculous way of convincing the population to join them. In the absence of that, they risk coming out of this with all of the blame and more issues than they had when they first started. And independently of that, if they sustain these protests for too long, the damage they'll do to the country is worrying. As it is, we can recover in a few weeks, two months at worst for some of the more extensive cases. If this continues, things might get a lot uglier, a lot faster.

And then there are the issues with their demands. If things are as free-form as they seem to be, that's a danger in and of itself. Presumably, the demand of military intervention will not be taken as a serious thing, by the populace of by the government (and likely not by the military themselves. Those times backfired for them too, so they prefer to do their thing behind the scenes these days). But amongst the confusion that goes on before the settling of demands and the proper formation of this new protest, if it becomes a thing, all sorts of other issues can occur.

All in all, the situation is very, very confusing and just as worrying. Hopefully, this is a quick issue of confusion and things clear out without problem.

Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#212: May 29th 2018 at 8:49:36 AM

I don't think the military would want to be associated with these strikes anyways given the leftist bent of the protests. Some of the higher-ups have indicated that they're the same spoiled thugs they were back in the dictatorship (basically saying that if Lula was allowed to run they would stage a coup), but they can always make a move during/after elections anyways and now this is just another thing that could potentially go in their favor.

TheLovecraftian Since: Jul, 2017
#213: May 29th 2018 at 10:17:45 AM

I don't think the military would ever stage a coup. They learned with the dictatorship that openly ruling the country doesn't work, and prefer to keep to the backstage these days. Trying to stage another coup would end badly for just about everyone. Plus, outside forces would probably interfere if that ever happened again.

And I don't think these protests are very left-leaning either. For one, because there's barely a left to speak of in Brasil. Even Lula is Center-Left at best these days, and he's probably the strongest left-leaning politician in this country.

That gets me thinking. Other than the fact that it would be populated by brazilians, and therefore probably be a shitshow, why is there no "Politics in Brazil" thread? It would be useful for times where the country isn't in complete disarray.

TheLovecraftian Since: Jul, 2017
#214: May 29th 2018 at 4:11:35 PM

So. Day ending, and some things have been clarified, although whether or not that makes the situation better is up for grabs.

The clamors for military intervention are being primarily done by extremist right-wing fanatics, and most brazilians have taken to publically denouncing those who ask for such a thing. The military remain quiet about the issue.

The strikes have remained due to self-employed truckers, who are now explaining that the deal made by the government was done with big corporations, and not with the truckers' movement themselves. The movement has also added several political and social concerns to their list of demands, and called out the president's authority and political validation, claiming he could (and they're not wrong here) simply back out of the deal once everyone goes back home.

Despite all this, some places have begun to restock... and many are charging higher prices than before to take advantage of that position.

Things might be walking towards an end, if a bit slowly.

Personally, as much as I agree with the truckers' positioning here, I think they're overreaching a bit. Asking for legal confirmation of their demands is all fine and well, but suddenly adding all of those demands and asking people to go with a strike that will leave a lot of the country in disarray, one week after already hitting the country pretty hard, is in my mind the wrong move to take right now. I hope this doesn't end with them losing more than they gained with this.

TheLovecraftian Since: Jul, 2017
#215: Oct 7th 2018 at 3:50:32 PM

Say, slight necro here, but given the current climate of brazilian politics, I feel compelled to ask: is there a thread for politics in Brazil? If not, would anyone be interested if one was made? For civil conversations about the topic, of course.

TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#216: Oct 7th 2018 at 4:23:08 PM

There is the Latin America thread

There is also the South America Culture and Politics thread.

The second is probably the better fit.

Edited by TuefelHundenIV on Oct 7th 2018 at 6:22:45 AM

Who watches the watchmen?
TheLovecraftian Since: Jul, 2017
#217: Oct 7th 2018 at 5:33:17 PM

Hm. That's an interesting idea, but I was thinking more something along the lines of the Politics In The US thread. I don't know how many of the site's demographic is brazilian, but I was hoping to avoid swamping the latin america threads with brazil-specific discussions. Try and have a more in-depth debate about what goes on here, talk about individual states and what not.

TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#218: Oct 7th 2018 at 8:47:18 PM

Use the second one it. Has politics appended to it for a reason and what happens in Brazil will also affect on the rest of South America. There are also a few other Brazillian posters but I can't recall all of them off of the top of my head.

Otherwise, you will have to make a new thread.

Edited by TuefelHundenIV on Oct 7th 2018 at 10:47:00 AM

Who watches the watchmen?
ZeroDozer Incinerate! ONE HUNDRED PERCENT!! from Santo André, SP, Brazil Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
Incinerate! ONE HUNDRED PERCENT!!
#219: Oct 18th 2018 at 10:40:53 PM

You know, I actually am in favor of a Brazilian Politics thread. That thing is a swamp of its own, trust me.

Growing up, it's like a civil war, don't turn away, it's something you can't ignore...
Quag15 Since: Mar, 2012
#220: Oct 19th 2018 at 7:16:19 AM

[up]We already have 3 threads where we mostly talk about Brazil ("South America culture and politics", "The Latin America Thread" and this one).

TheLovecraftian Since: Jul, 2017
#221: Oct 19th 2018 at 8:30:00 AM

Might be a good idea to make one specifically for Brazil, then, so those threads can focus more on their specific topic without getting swamped by one country. Or do you think that wouldn't help?

EDIT: Or make this thread the Brazil-specific thread, instead of just "Protests in Brazil". Keep the politics specific to the country focused here.

Edited by TheLovecraftian on Oct 19th 2018 at 12:31:43 PM

tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#222: Oct 19th 2018 at 9:16:41 AM

It might be best just to turn and rename this thread into general Brazil politics. It's the same thing that happened to the US Politics thread when it was just a 2012 elections thread before hand.

Just holler for a mod and they can change it for you.

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
ZeroDozer Incinerate! ONE HUNDRED PERCENT!! from Santo André, SP, Brazil Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Owner of a lonely heart
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#224: Oct 22nd 2018 at 4:30:35 PM

Just gonna bump this now that it’s been renamed so that things can move here from the other thread.

Edited by Silasw on Oct 22nd 2018 at 11:30:49 AM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
TheLovecraftian Since: Jul, 2017
#225: Oct 22nd 2018 at 4:45:11 PM

Ah! Thread name change! Cool!

I'm just going to leave this here, then, for people who come into the thread now: let's keep it civil. If the current state of politics in our country is any indication, we know how quickly this can get out of hand. So let's keep the discussion polite and clear of... well, everything that Brazil has been doing these past few weeks. We don't want to get the mods called on us right after making this thread an official thing.

Also, thanks to whoever got the name changed.


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