Norse mythology thread

Hel could possibly be a nickname for Helen. As a name on its own, though, it sucks. Skuld, though, is also a Danish/Swedish princess/queen, although she wasn't exactly an honourable or good person. Then again, I know someone whose parents named her "Morgan'', even though Morgan Le Fay is a very similar character to Skuld. The Danish princess Skuld.

Also, do you consider Volund an elf? You might know that he's also a folkloric character named Wayland The Smith.

edited 23rd Jun '13 6:50:20 PM by MorwenEdhelwen

BTW, some of the names in the sagas are awesome. Like "Randalin" or "shield-protection," a female name.

Yeah, they're cool if tongue-destroying by today's standards.

I'm now getting into Hrolf Kraki 's saga and the Arthur parallels are interesting. You have a legendary ruler born of a scandalous relationship by rape, a dozen or so heroes who serve him taking up most of the story with their own adventures, a wicked if somewhat sympathetic witch, a wise magic user who's a seer on the heroes side, and an epic battle ending in tragedy to close off the tale.

How far are you along? Also, a lot of these stories make perfect soap operas. Poor Skuld. She needs a Wicked or Grendel-style book about her, telling of how she was maligned by her self-serving brother. In another setting she would be that girl in your group of friends/acquaintances that you talk to a few times but can never really know, yet has a lot of unusual/weird people around her.

And when she's arrested everyone says "She kept to herself but I never knew she was the type to blow up buildings."

edited 23rd Jun '13 10:05:04 PM by MorwenEdhelwen

If only we had Poul Anderson still with us. The rare great speculative fiction author who loved Norse culture and wrote a lot of good stuff based off of it. He even wrote a novel version of the saga though I haven't read it.

I'm just now getting to know Hjalti. I kind of like him if only because he's a coward, but he'll probably grow into a badass considring half the characters in any Norse story are badass by default.

@Dark: Oh, him. Yeah- I've heard of a saga where a cowardly guy is forced to drink a potion which makes him braver by his friend.

What are your ideas on Skuld's name?

Only thing that comes to mind is it being similar to Skald. Which could have some interesting ideas if she worked in singing or chanting her spells.

The word "skuld" also means debt , so maybe there's a bit of significance, concerning how her father broke a promise he made.

Well, they do like their prophetic names. If anything, they're bigger believers in predetermined fate and prophecy than the Greeks.

Yeah, how many times in sagas does someone make a prophecy?

Back to the Volsunga Saga, I find it kind of scarily fascinating how Wagner twisted it for his Ring of The Nibelung. And not just the saga but the mythology itself.

On one hand I'd like to punch the guy for taking so many liberties, on the other I think it's cool he turned it into a 16 hour operatic cycle. Still, I'm not much for opera, especially in a language I can't understand so I can't really enjoy it.

Plus there are a lot of parallels betwen Volsunga Saga and The Hobbit. Thorin's gold-madness and betrayal of Bilbo, for example.

edited 25th Jun '13 7:17:21 PM by MorwenEdhelwen

Plus the dwarves names are taken directly from a list in Poetic, though I can't remember the specific source. Though they're in the exact same order in the book, I.E. the first names on the list.

The Voluspa.

Durin apparently means sleeper.

Ah, there it is!

From a narrative standpoint, I prefer Prose because it gives the somewhat chaotic mythology some structure, but most of it probably comes from alteration or compression. But I find Poetic more interesting because it's the closest we have to something authentic aside from the fragmentary rune stones.

I've read claims that Dvergatal was added into the poem.

Also, do the sagas mention how Norse children were disciplined? In a neo-Norse/post-apocalyptic steampunk society where Norse ways of life are becoming common, would it be plausible for a teenager to talk about having food withheld and getting the switch? I know punishments like that were common in the Middle Ages, but what about the Viking Age and before?

edited 29th Jun '13 2:49:30 AM by MorwenEdhelwen

I'm not sure. I'd make it a little tougher, just to be sure. C Dultural norms never come back exactly as they were, so there's bound to be differences.

RE the Poetic and Prose Edda; Weirdly Lyngheid and Lofnheid only appear in the Poetic Edda. So I'm thinking they may be part of one tradition, but not of others.

Also, on the topic of Skuld and Hrolf Kraki; it suddenly struck me that Helgi forgetting the promise he made is extremely ambiguous; was it out of constantly pushing it to the background due to kingly duties, not wanting to have a half-elven daughter on his hands, or because of magic?

bump

I'd say out of having a elven daughter. Helgi didn't seemed thrilled about her.

I don't think you need to look for a deeper reason than Helgi's character. He is a rapist and a slave to his senses; what he wants is to sleep with beautiful women, not to care for little children. Forgetting about his promise (whether genuinely of willfully) is deeply characteristic for his self-centeredness.

edited 3rd Jul '13 12:59:05 PM by LordGro

That seems like a good explanation for how he could just forget something as important as ''a promise with a curse as consequence." An ordinary person wouldn't, but Helgi isn't an ordinary person. Also, he's proof that a king doesn't have to be a good person to be a good ruler... although IIRC the elf woman agreed to stay when he asked her to, which puts me in mind of "Baby It's Cold Outside."

(I ought to say no, no, sir/

Mind if I move in closer?)

There's a Valkyrie named Skuld, and in my headcanon for Norse mythology/Icelandic sagas Skuld, the princess, becomes a Valkyrie (her elven blood would make her close to the gods). Also, she can resurrect the dead in much the same way the einherjar are resurrected. Skuld as a Valkyrie would be fascinating. I've read stuff on Hrolf and Helgi as historical figures.

edited 3rd Jul '13 10:08:52 PM by MorwenEdhelwen

It's a bit like Celtic mythology in that it'shard to figure out who actually existed, and who's just a folk hero. Still, I consider the sagas about half historical.